How come there is this huge rift between liberals and conservatives here in the USA?

Patchouli.

www.urbandictionary.com...

An annoying stank masking scent (commonly a scented oil) that subliminally causes internal cringing for members of the bathing community...A.K.A. - "Pseudo Bath", "Trustafarian Tramp Serum", "Hippie Stink" , "Soap Substitute", "Dopehead Dry-Clean", "Coward Shower", "Dank Stank", "Wanker-stank", "Hygiene Hi-jinks", "Greatful Dread", "Granola Grout", "Magnolia Mud-flap", "Drag-rat Sludge Fudge" ...Did I miss one? "There goes another Trustafarian Granola. That patchouli scent almost ALWAYS precedes pretentious hygienic procrastination and self-righteous drivel !"

Frequent odor apparent at Code Pink ralllies and Woodstock reunions.

Originally posted by SonOfChaos


Yes their are Pro-life liberals Stormdancer777.

media.www.bcheights.com...

media.www.thegeorgetownindependent.com... t.To.Change-848717.shtml

I believe that peoples political views are just as varied as people.

I would recommend that you do read up on "abortion" issues however as they are quite complicated cause it is not a cut and dry issue for many people. Rape, Incest, cost, possible death of the mother, babies that will die when born due to defects...their are very good reasons why so many people have such strong feelings.

.

I do understand the issues, my main gripe is abortion as birth control.

I was told to have an abortion with my youngest, due to my health, we both survived,

There are many layers, yes.

Edited to say, I would vote for a candidate I thought was a good candidate, regardless of party affiliations.

[edit on 023131p://bThursday2009 by Stormdancer777]

Originally posted by Stormdancer777I know there are pro-abortion conservatives.

Please explain to me what a 'pro-abortion conservative' is. Is that a conservative who insists upon abortions? Is it a conservative who roots for abortions? Or one who just, plain prefers them?

Personally, I am pro choice. What that choice may end up being is pretty much none of my business, but I believe that a woman should have the right to choose.

And if you are not offering to support her or adopt her child should she deliver, it's not up to you to insist she does.

Pro abortion, indeed.

Originally posted by Cool Hand Luke
In Canada, privatization is almost a swear word. Yet it is the only way to get better healthcare, better roads, lower taxes, better retirement, better education, lower unemployment etc.

Good thing we have the US health care model to show us the inefficiencies of our own Universal Health Care. I had my cancer cured for $32, on top of my meagre OHIP payments. Colonoscopy? $50, but that's so I can show the dvd to my pals.
Roads? How stupid was it for us to sell off the 407...another Tory brainstorm. Lower taxes? How about add the profit margin to what we already pay. God only knows that the free-market banking system worked out pretty good too, eh?

If you need evidence that government subisidizing the poor has the opposite effect of its intent, look no futher to the areas in any city in North America that have government subsidized housing. I rest my case.

Unless you can back that up with genuine figures, you are just spouting conservative dogma...just reinforcing that rift.

the 'rift' between parties seems proportional to the lack of political diversity.

there is no moderate / middle ground for political platforms. moderates are considered unpredictable, therefore dangerous, in the land of the two party system. gee, wonder why that is...

we are bullied into choosing the lesser of two evils. it is a diversion.

i'd compare it to a deck of Svengali cards... a couple of key players that take the spotlight, a couple of other suits for show, and the rest is just there to make the illusion seem real.

also, historically, party label and agenda have the tendency to shift as time passes. so... its no wonder.

(edit: grammar?)










[edit on 8/1/2009 by gravykraken]

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Pro abortion, indeed.

That's another one of those emotionally charged phrases. Implying someone loves abortions. The opposite of it is "anti-choice". Another emotionally charged phrase. Yeah, their use really gets people on the defensive. Kind of like calling Obama a "messiah" to his supporters, implying they are under a cult-like spell... Or calling someone who doesn't like Obama a racist. It really gets the blood going, doesn't it?

Unfortunately, it does nothing to cure the rift between people with opposite opinions. In fact, it broadens it...

The Right to Life is specified in our Declaration of Independence.
George Washington's commands to the First Continental Army
specifically adressed the concern for the unborn Americans of the future.

I firmly believe if GW1 could see what he had fought for, being currently twisted into
what is being done today. He'd surrender his sword to Cornwallis and ask for the whole
sorry lot of the remaining colonists be immolated.

Rape is a capitol offense; not date rape, real rape

As for the infanticide issue.
In the case of rape, it is up to the mother. I've known of a few women who were
actually raped and had the children. Two gave their children up for adoption.
One actually kept the boy. All felt that while what had happened to them was a crime.
Murdering the child wouldn't undo what was done.
The children hadn't done anything other then be.
One said she was just minding her own business when her rapist destroyed her life.
She couldn't see destroying the life of someone that was just minding their own
business. She would be worst than the rapist in her eyes.
The last was going to give her baby up too until she saw him and heard him.
It was love at first sight. Asked about her choice she said she wasn't going to kill
her baby just because it's dad was a criminal. Prodded about would she have a
problem seeing the father's face in the babies face. She actually laughed and said
the rapist had never let her get a good look at his face before he punched her.
He was convicted by DNA evidence. Her son's face is his face alone.
She saw a man in court get sentenced yes, but she didn't know who he was.
In the case of rape, it is up to the woman.
But let her know of God's adage that he sets two paths before us
one is life, the other death
(no, criminals of capitol offenses do not get this treatment,
they forefeit such by the evil of their actions--so says the Lord
so I don't care what sophistry loaded argument the deviants spin up.)

Incest is rarer than the pro-infanticide/judicial fiat crowd would have you believe.
Exactly how is impelling an already traumatized girl to abort said child any less
traumatic. If she want's an ab sure, Cleopatra was the result of something like
7 generations of egyptian royalty inbreeding. barring no recessive traits that could
threaten the health of either, I see no reason not allowing it to be born.

Medical reasons? even rarer than the aforementioned excuse.
In this year 2009 of our Lord, the need to terminate a developed fetus for medical
reasons is near non-existant. Even so, I have heard of quite a few women willing
to roll the dice to possibly become a mom. Medically speaking, it's practically
option being the only reason of it's inclusion as an alternative form of treatment.
Much like Oregon tried to prescribe euthanasia to a 60 year old prostate cancer
claimant to their state health program; fortunately he got treatment anyway,
but they tried to fly the balloon.

My daughter said it best.
The time for birth control is when your clothes are still on.

It is this question of infanticide that the clerics use to label us as wicked.
The fact that PP runs abortion mills for the procurement of human material
to be sold piece by piece, bone by bone, skin sold by per square inch:
shows this is just another business that's ultimate concern is money,
not the welfare of women.

Paying women to delay abortions for more 'material' to recover?
True, and it happened/is happening.

nothing less than murder

reply to post by Frankidealist35


Because Conservatives and Liberals not only have different mindsets but different political views and different political goals. I think as the years go on, especially with the new administration that the rift between left and right will only grow. And this is necessary. I will not compromise my beliefs in order to 'get along'.

reply to post by JAGPANZER


I agree. Abortion is murder pure and simple. It's not 'part of the woman's body' because from the moment of conception the baby is genetically different from the mother. Even so if it was a 'woman's right to choose' then by that very reasoning I should be able to go to the doctor and have him remove my right arm, or my leg or something, after it's my body so it's my right to choose.

That's a load of BS and everyone knows it. Since Roe vs Wade over 43 million babies have been murdered by abortion. A disproportionate number of which are African-American. In fact Margarate Sanger who pioneered abortion in this country did so to keep the black population down.

But 43 million. That's around 4x the amount of people murdered under the Nazi regime.

Originally posted by JAGPANZER
The Right to Life is specified in our Declaration of Independence.
George Washington's commands to the First Continental Army
specifically adressed the concern for the unborn Americans of the future.

In debates like this, I'm inclined to think back to a piece I read in a blog called waiterrant.net. It is an intelligent view of the restaurant world, and indeed, of life. In one blog he described his godfather...a priest...having attended an anti-abortion rally, and addressing the multitudes:

It's a little lengthly, Mods, but it covers the issue quite handily, so I'm looking for a little 'special dispensation' here.

“Well the people at this rally were really whipped up into frenzy,” I say, “They were all about fire and brimstone. You know, these women are sinners, they’re going to hell, etc.”...


“So it’s my Godfather’s turn to speak…………..

My Godfather shuffles up to the pulpit, resplendent in his Byzantine vestments, peering over his glasses, he looks out upon the congregation.

“How many of you here have adopted an unwanted child?” he asks.

Dead silence. Not a hand is raised.

“No one?” he asks.

After a dramatic pause my godfather continues.

“I have heard many of you talking today about God’s punishment, his wrath. How you’re all a bunch of good Catholic’s because you hate abortion. But some of you hate the very women who most need our help.”

People start shifting in their seats uncomfortably.

“I know many of you people, like me, are here because you want to defend the unborn. Some of you are motivated by the deepest conviction.”

Another pause.

“But some of you are here because you love to hate.”

Shocked silence.

“Let me tell you about Hell,” my Godfather continues, “We know there’s a hell because Jesus said there was one. But we don’t know if anyone’s been sent there.”

My godfather lets that thought sink in.

“The mercy of God is radical and boundless,” he continues, “And I thank Him everyday that he is more merciful than you or I will ever be.”

Some of the congregants look angry.

“Are you here because you want to actually help the unborn? That’s why I asked if you’ve adopted one?” he continues, “Have you taken an unwed mother into your home? Feed her? Cared for her? Or are you here because this is where your friends are? Are you here because
you like to feel superior?”

A couple of people get up to leave. Undaunted my Godfather continues.

“Because if all this is about feeling good about yourself, if all this is about how you’re better than someone else – YOU ARE WASTING GOD'S TIME!”

His words reverberate through the church. People are staring at the floor. Some shake their heads in disagreement. Some look thoughtful.

‘Jesus never liked hypocrites,” my Godfather continues, “The Lord once said, ‘They do not practice what they preach. They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on people’s shoulders, but will they lift a finger to move them? Not they! Every thing they do is done to attract attention!”

“Some of you are here because you like attention. Not because you have anything constructive to offer. Are you relieving these women of their burdens? Or are you adding to them? Ask yourself that question.”

I was in that congregation with tears in my eyes. My godfather was fearless. Probably why he never became a bishop.

“In the end,” my godfather concludes, “You will only help these women with your love, not your disdain. Examine your motivations. Why are you here?”

You could hear a pin drop.

My Godfather steps down from the pulpit. I don’t think he was invited back the next year. …

And perhaps that's the difference between left and right. I'm inclined to think that the right is more likely to address the symptom, while the left looks towards the cure.