Joseph's Birthright: Great Britain and U.S.A.

Have you ever asked yourself where the United States and Great Britain are in the bible? Have you ever wondered if the two greatest powers after the fall of the Holy Roman Empire are talked about in the pages of prophecy? I mean, think about it. Daniel predicted the fall of 4 different empires preceding each other. We see in contrast between history and current events that the British Empire was once in control of nearly 1/3 of earth's land mass and that the United States is the single most powerful nation to ever be in history. You would think with these credentials that there would be mention of these two empires would be mentioned in bible prophecy. Even the recent decline and soon to be demise of the western world should be found in bible prophecy. Well, my friends, I may be able to offer some insight. I know many people will disreguard what I present since most scientists, historians, archaeologists, and non-christians/non-jews don't take the evidence into account. Many investigative reporters and church congregations know of this. Some call it racist or singling out one race over another but when dealing with the lost tribes of israel, we are going to get into race. The short version of this info is as follows:

The assyrians drove the northern tribes into exile in 722bce. At this same time a new people emerged known as the scythians in the same place of Israel's exile. These people ultimately ended up merging with the celtic people of northwest europe. Ultimately the celtics and scythians were Israelite exiles that went opposite directions in the Eurasian Steppes but wound up back together in northwest europe. Many bible verses lead to the exile of the 10 lost tribes to northwest europe. Amos 9:8-9; 1 Kings 14:15; Isaiah 49:12; Hosea 12:1 (compare Hosea 11:9-10); Jeremiah 31:9-10; Isaiah 24:15, 41:1,5, 51:5, 66:19 and Psalm 89:25... collectively these passages indicate that the captive Israelites would eventually move on from their land of exile in northern Mesopotamia to ultimately settle in Northwest Europe- the major maritime and coastal region north and west of the Holy Land.

Now that you have an idea on the migration of the 10 lost tribes, lets see some prophecy in the bible referring to the unique tribe of Joseph which consists of 2 subtribes: Manasseh and Ephraim.... the names of Joseph's sons. To look at these prophecies we go to the book of Genesis for the start of our research.....

It starts in Genesis 12:2- "I will make you a great nation"
Usually refers to the nation of Israel and rightfully so.

Genesis 35:11 is the basis of my argument- "Also God said to him: "I am God Almighty. Be fruitful and multiply; A NATION AND A COMPANY OF NATIONS SHALL PROCEED FROM YOU, AND KINGS SHALL COME FROM YOUR BODY.""
The "company of nations" would refer to the British Empire which controlled nearly 1/3 of all land mass and sea ports on earth. After it's downfall after WWII the nations that made up the British Empire became independent nations such as Canada, South Africa, Hong Kong, Australia, New Zeiland, etc. The uniqueness of these nations that came out of Great Britain is the United States of America or the reference in the above verse being "A Nation". You have one nation and a company of nations and U.S. & Britain fit this bill well. Now let's look at what's so special about this Nation and Multitude of Nations.

The birthright of Joseph is the basis of this thread and here it finally is....

Genesis 48:16- "The Angel who has redeemed me from all evil, Bless the lads; Let my name be named upon them, And the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; And let them grow into a MULTITUDE in the midst of the earth.
17- Now when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand on the head of Ephraim, it displeased him; so he took hold of his father's hand to remove it from Ephraim's head to Manasseh's head.
18- And Joseph said to his father, "Not so, my father, for this one is the firstborn; put your right hand on his head."
19- But his father refused and said, "I know, my son, I know. HE ALSO SHALL BECOME A PEOPLE AND HE ALSO SHALL BE GREAT; BUT TRULY HIS YOUNGER BROTHER SHALL BE GREATER THAN HE, AND HIS DECENDANTS SHALL BECOME A MULTITUDE OF NATIONS."
20- So he blessed them that day, saying, "By you Israel will bless, saying, 'May God make you as Ephraim and as Manasseh!'" And thus HE SET EPHRAIM BEFORE MANASSEH.

This verse is very vital. Ephraim, the younger son was set before Manasseh, the older son of Joseph. Ephraim's people would become a "Multitude of Nations" while Manasseh would be "A Great Nation" after the "Multitude". This brings us to the Isralie heritage of the english speaking nations. Great Britain is the modern descendant of Ephraim and the United States is the modern descendant of Manasseh.

I will stop there for now and see what kind of heat people send my way for this assumption.

interesting theory. i really cant agree or disagree with you because i dont anything about the scythians.

i do have a question though. what exactly is the significance of it?

My opinion on this is that it is ultimately counter-productive. The verse may mention Kings but does not specify that they are necessarily good kings. Henry the VIII th and Elizabeth I did do something to hinder the reaction of the Romanists against the Reformation. The German Princes stood up for Luther.
For the present I do not think it is so good to promote the concept of the Divine Right of Kings because it is being used as a tool of Rome to subjugate peoples and to destroy Protestantism in general. Beware of the rise of the beast wearing crowns and having the woman in scarlet riding on its back.
I would join in some of the skepticism of Miriam concerning the importance of the speculation you have decided to support. I feel it may be nothing more than a distraction and we should realize what Paul meant when he talked about the wall of separation being removed. You have to ask yourself if such a theory advances the Gospel or hinders it.

reply to post by Locoman8


Locoman8:

So far I agree with the others, however, I am of the belief that we should look into all theroies. I never hurts to see where it goes. I agree though if the point is to hinder the Gospel, then this is a dangerous path to go.


Peace to you,
Grandma

reply to post by Locoman8


I partly buy into the british isreal theory. however i belive this has happened and the so called tribes have now become diluted too far to identify certain " countries" with a tribe now.

The same peoblem arises that any " christian could be either a gentile or from any tribe, including Judah.

saying that the positions of these tribes army aroud the holy land is interesting

Ill be fascinated to find out when Jesus returns though

david

The significance of this theory is the fact that Joseph's birthright, though originally considered to be a wonderful inheritence, was also subject to the so called "time of Jacob's trouble" which we are seeing now. None of this theory is to disprove or take away anything the gospel says. My point is that the western nations of the U.S., Britain, Canada, Australia, New Zeiland, etc. are the modern decendents of the lost 10 tribes of the Northern Kingdom of Israel. Also, the prophecy in Genesis stating the "One Great Nation, and a Multitude of Nations" is unique in the sense that Great Britain, as the British Commonwealth was responsible for the modernization or westernization of over 1/4 of the world. Not to mention the United States as the single most powerful nation to ever exist. We are now seeing our downfall slowly taking place which will lead to our time of "Jacob's trouble". Just like ancient Israel, it's all about how the nation decides to keep the values of God as we see more and more demoralized culture falling on the western nations. This kind of thing is the reason Ancient Israel divided into two kingdoms and why the Northern Tribes were exiled. The western nations need to heed the advice of the bible to prolong the delay of "Jacob's Troubles".

Originally posted by Locoman8
Not to mention the United States as the single most powerful nation to ever exist..

by what yard stick? they have accomplished nothing in comparison with many other empires

david

reply to post by Locoman8

Just like ancient Israel, it's all about how the nation decides to keep the values of God as we see more and more demoralized culture falling on the western nations.

We would be only backsliding if we were to go back to giving more power and authority to kings and queens. Having a group of Royals handing over ecclesiastic authority to a religious entity like the Vatican will be the downfall of whatever progress civilization has made in the last 500 years.

I'm not referring to the whole "Church-State" idea like the Vatican and Holy roman Empire. I'm talking about our leaders bringing our morals back to biblical standards. Not saying all have to worship God or keep the sabbath, though it wouldn't hurt... saying to keep the commandments to our fellow neighbors. Love thy neighbor, honor thy mother and father, do not bear false witness to your neighbor, thou shall not murder, thou shall not commit adultery, thou shall not covet thy neighbor's wife, possessions, etc. Essentially the "Golden Rule" which shows nothing but good moral values. It's not the complete responsibility of our nation's leaders for this to happen but the people collectively.... which will most likely not happen.

Also to Dre, you ask by what yardstick? I understand that the Roman Empire was powerful and the Babylonian empire as well... Greece, Persia, etc... but what about a single nation? Not an empire or collection of nations under one government, but one single nation. There has not been a single nation to hold political, military, agriculture, and monetary might as the United States. We can argue this point but look at the facts. Also I want to share the remainder of these prophecies with you, directed exclusively at Joseph and his sons. I will start this on my next post.

Here are some more aspects to the birthright of Joseph. Genesis 49 is a chapter in which Jacob gives prophetic birthrights to all of his sons. He names different aspects to each tribe of Israel and what would become of them in the end. As we concentrate on Joseph, we start on verse 22.

22: "Joseph is a fruitful bough, A fruitful bough by a well; His branches run over the wall.

-this verse explains the nations of Joseph's inheritence will go beyond the initial borders of the tribe. (His branches run over the wall). Because of the "multitude of nations" Joseph will continue outside of it's initial borders.

23: "The archers have bitterly grieved him, Shot at him and hated him.

-refers to the nations who have warred and hated the western nations. British commonwealth felt the sting from WWI and WWII while America feels the hatred and war from the revolution to Iraq. We are hated by other nations for our prosperity and (thanks to our arrogance) our cocky attitudes to the world.

24: "But his bow remained in strength, And the arms of his hands were made strong By the hands of the Mighty God of Jacob (From there is the Shepherd, the Stone of Israel).

-refers to our victories in war due to the hands of God protecting our well-being. Also gives insight on the "Stone of Israel" being Jesus Christ.

25: "By the God of your father who will help you, And by the Almighty who will bless you With blessings of heaven above, Blessings of the deep that lies beneath, Blessings of the breasts and of the womb.

-This verse refers to the blessings of rain, water, farmlands, cattle, and basically anything needed to sustain a nation and then some. Also explains the blessings of fruitful multiplying (blessings of the womb).

26: "The blessings of your father Have excelled the blessings of my ancestors, Up to the utmost bound of the everlasting hills. They shall be on the head of Joseph, And on the crown of the head of him who was separate from his brothers.

-Basically passing the blessings of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob on to Joseph. A blessing initially for all 12 tribes, but knowing the tribes wouldn't be there forever, the blessing spread to the modern descendants of Joseph. A modern "land flowing with milk and honey."

Where else in the world is there natural resources available in one single nation to sustain the entire population and then some? The United States is the most unique because there are so many resources in so many places. We have the fishing areas in most costal areas along with the freshwater fish supply. The breadbasket of the world in the great plains of America, corn crops in the midwest and south. Cotton, tobacco, abundance of fruit, cattle, industrial, coal, gold, oil, water, rain, etc. We in the U.S. are in such a uniqe part of the world. Many will overlook this truth as a mere coincidence or even trying to put puzzle pieces where they don't fit but where else does the biblical pieces of "one great nation" and "multitude of nations" fit in the world? Research the scythians in history with the dates in the 700s bce when the israelites were exiled and things fall into place too easily to disreguard the theory of British-Israelism.

It is interesting to note that the "time of Jacob's troubles" are being pushed forward with our current economic situation. The nations of USA, and Britain are falling fast thanks to overspending and poor decisions by our government leaders. This is the beginning of the end for these modern descendents of Joseph. Now the European Union is poised to take the lead as the world economic leaders. Watch and be sober for the signs of the times are here and will soon climax into the Great Tribulation. All english speaking nations shall prepare for a "third-world" lifestyle because it's fast approaching. A shift in world power is in it's infancy.

This thread has made me think of the all the world powers the bible has talked about, I think I will make a thread on that.

But I already know where we will agree and disagree on this, the EU vs the UN.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


You're right about that but I think we find middle ground in the fact that the EU plays a major role in the UN now. Our difference is in which of the two will ACTUALLY lead the world governments.

The British-Israel theory is spot on, IMO.

When I first researched it, I did so thinking it was just a load of rubbish. Then it all started coming together and making too much sense for it not to be the truth.

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


And that's how I came about the truth as well. It's too accurate to be coincidince or to have happened by chance. Just as names of nations change, origins and nationalities are hidden in history. Who would have thought to link the Scythians with the lost tribes of Israel? Moreso, who would have thought to look at the British Empire and the United States as the "Multitude of Nations" and "One Great Nation" leading the world in succession and both currently falling to their demise which leads us to the "time of Jacob's troubles?"

reply to post by Locoman8


Greetings Locoman8:


After giving your posts much thought I do see your point that you are making. I do see how the U.S. fits into the Bible prophecy along with Great Britian. I do see that we are headed or already in "Jacob's troubles".

I believe we will be seeing some bad times coming for us. I fear for those who are unbelievers.

I see the Vatican coming to great power and fulfilling the prophecy of the Roman Empire rising up again. We need to be alert as to the signs and stay in a very close relationship with the Lord so his spirit can help us when things start to fall apart in our world. The Bible gives us the help we need. We do need to take the Scriptures to heart.

Thank you for your thread. I think we need to discuss these prophecy's as they relate to us and the world.



Shalom,
Grandma

reply to post by Grandma


Yes, you're right. Thank you for mentioning the Vatican and the Roman Empire. Along with the Roman Catholic Church, we have the newly nationalized European Union which is a modern day Roman Empire. This would make a 7th revival of the Roman Empire. 7 heads is 7 mountains.... from Revelation 17. Rome is the city on 7 hills. 7 mountains refers to 7 kingdoms or governments..... revivals of the empire. Just as mountains have peaks, they also have valleys. Between the revivals of the Roman Empire they had low "valley" points before rising again. Please visit my thread on the 7 Revivals of the Roman Empire to learn more... www.belowtopsecret.com...

Much of the symbolism in Revelation the author draws from the OT,
Daniel, Ezekiel, Zechariah. John's community would have been
familiar with and understood the symbolic meaning of the imagery
the author presents.

Numbers in the Apocalypse are symbols, and not meant to be taken
literally. They are not quantities; they represent qualities, with each
number possesing its own qualitative significnce. The number seven represents perfection or universality not a literal quanity. When John
writes letters to seven churches it is understood that he is writing to
the church universal. When John says there are seven spirits before the throne it is understood that he refers to the Holy Spirit, who along with
Jesus and "the one who is," gives peace and grace to the church. Seven
represents perfection, completion, the ideal. It is comprised of three,
the number of heaven, and four, the number of earth. The product of three and four, 12, stands for God's people. Ten and all the multiples of
ten represent totality. Multiples and squares of numbers intensify their
basic meanings.

John shows that four horsemen afflict the earth. When 144,000 are
sealed, it ought to be understood that it is 12 times 12 times ten times ten
times ten; meaning all God's people.

When the period of tribulation is said to last for three and one-half years
it is understood that this is symbolic of half-seven, a broken seven, for evil
can never be complete.

Revelation is not meant to be interpreted literally. which would seem little
more than fanciful speculations of would-be prophets using Revelation to predict curent political events. It proclaims the same message as the
rest of the NT, the good news of salvation through Christ.

Originally posted by rileyw
Much of the symbolism in Revelation the author draws from the OT,
Daniel, Ezekiel, Zechariah. John's community would have been
familiar with and understood the symbolic meaning of the imagery
the author presents.

Numbers in the Apocalypse are symbols, and not meant to be taken
literally. They are not quantities; they represent qualities, with each
number possesing its own qualitative significnce. The number seven represents perfection or universality not a literal quanity. When John
writes letters to seven churches it is understood that he is writing to
the church universal. When John says there are seven spirits before the throne it is understood that he refers to the Holy Spirit, who along with
Jesus and "the one who is," gives peace and grace to the church. Seven
represents perfection, completion, the ideal. It is comprised of three,
the number of heaven, and four, the number of earth. The product of three and four, 12, stands for God's people. Ten and all the multiples of
ten represent totality. Multiples and squares of numbers intensify their
basic meanings.

John shows that four horsemen afflict the earth. When 144,000 are
sealed, it ought to be understood that it is 12 times 12 times ten times ten
times ten; meaning all God's people.

When the period of tribulation is said to last for three and one-half years
it is understood that this is symbolic of half-seven, a broken seven, for evil
can never be complete.

Revelation is not meant to be interpreted literally. which would seem little
more than fanciful speculations of would-be prophets using Revelation to predict curent political events. It proclaims the same message as the
rest of the NT, the good news of salvation through Christ.

For those who don't establish prophecy as being literal need a lesson in prophecy. Though some is symbolic in nature, most of the symbolism is explained in literal terms... Take Daniel for instance. When seeing images of four different beasts, they are revealed as succeeding empires... the last being a modern version of the 4th beast. Revelation is a compliment to Daniel's prophecy. This 4th beast is shown as a beast with 7 heads and a harlot woman riding the back of the beast. There are also 10 horns on one of the heads of this beast. We see later in chapter 17 that the woman is false religion and the beast is a world ruling superpower. The 7 heads are the 7 revivals of this "4th beast". These 7 heads are also called "7 mountains" which in the bible mountains are identified as "governments" or "kingdoms". Once again, 7 revivals of this same beast. The 7th revival being the one ruled by the anti-christ and false prophet who war with Christ. We see the 4th beast as the Roman Empire. There have been 6 revivals of the Holy Roman Empire and the EU is the start of the 7th revival. The woman riding the beast is false religion (The Roman Catholic Church) which sways the beast. Odd enough, the symbol of the EU is the goddess "Europa" riding a bull (beast). Your explanation on the numbers being nothing more than symbolic falls apart when you research deeper into what's happening now in light of bible prophecy.

Can you expand on "Jacob's Troubles?"