Philosophy of Philiosophy???? Are you a philosopher?

In this thread i would like to discuss Philosophy. Philosophy is a study of general problems,

news.bbc.co.uk...

Are most of here on ATS then philosophers of sorts? :

dictionary entry for Philosophy: www.askoxford.com...

dictionary entry for Philosopher:
www.askoxford.com...

We discuss, disect, debunk and applaud - It does sound similar

What mad me start this thread was a combination of my obsession for knowledge and to try to piece together the jigsaw puzzle of life (which of course i accept is improbable), and just seeing thread after thread of well thought out posts and the reasonable arguments against them. Then if you think about it everyhting is based on a philosophy of some kind. Everything you do and see, has a purpose, and there has been though behind that purpose. Qel, i aren't too brilliant at getting my point across but i will have a ago. To me it seems as though that is what everthing is founded on. In fact its so obvious that i am so on the uptake and that everything is already well aware of that. Without philosophy i dont think we as a civilization would work.

Than that made me think. Are the laws we are told to follow in religion only a philosophy of someones interpretation of how the perfect civilization is to work? I mean yeah you have the obvious ones like no stealing, killing ect. but the ones that make me think a little deeper. There was a threads on this site that prompted me to consider the rule about poerk in Jewish law. About the meat being considered dirty. But if an adavanced civilations knew about the health risks of pork, such as cancer for examplwe then that would be a good reason to include that law. There could be others in there too, like the one saying every herb/plant and fruit -full of natural nutrients. You tell your kids to eat their greens - was the maker of those rules not doing the same.

There was a another thread which also made me think. A topic where the debate of point of mathematics and how far exactly can it really get you. Well, quite far but not on its own. The same for language and volcabulary, quite far but not on its own. There has to be thought in between. Philosophy you can look into the problems but you need both mathematics and language to argue your point or your conclusion. Is that not really what Philosophy is - a conclusion. That the real question for me. 'Thought' itself. Is thought your actual conscience or a process of your conscience? Origin of conscience from the Latin word: conscientia ‘knowledge within oneself’
www.askoxford.com...

Should if we consort with our conscience are we philosophising then too.
But when would Philosopher become prophecer. For this i turned to the tablets of thoth, although i do not know the credibility of these tablets, i do see wise words spoken in the tablets so i choose to take things from them despite whoever the actual author may be.

From The Law of Cause and Effect and the Key of Prophecy:

Know ye, O man,
that all of the future is an open book
to him who can read.
All effect shall bring forth its causes
as all effects grew from the first cause.
Know ye the future is not fixed or
stable but varies as cause brings forth an effect.
Look in the cause thou shalt bring into being,
and surely thou shalt see that all is effect.


So, O man, be sure the effects that ye bring
forth are ever causes of more perfect effects.
Know ye the future is never in fixation but
follows man's free will as it moves through
the movements of time-space toward
the goal where a new time begins.

Man can only read the future through
the causes that bring the effects.
Seek ye within the causation and
surely ye shall find the effects.

Source: www.crystalinks.com...

Anyway, i hope you can see what i mean, as i said earlier, i aren't very good at getting my point across to well.





[edit on 6-1-2009 by MCoG1980]

we all are..we dont know thats why

we make up stuff to try and understand what we are in.

My theory is just philosphy i guess? who knows..

Philosophy killed Schroedingers cat.

Or was that curiosity?

I'm an apprentice

I shall ponder the question....

Then I shall ponder the answer...

There are no answers.

Only further questions.

There are no answers.
Only Questions.

reply to post by mr-lizard


Looks like a double post, Mr lizard. you beat me by a couple of seconds. Oh well, Great Minds Think Alike, I suppose.

Originally posted by kettlebellysmith
There are no answers.
Only Questions.

There are no words... only interpretations of visual stimuli....

[edit on 6-1-2009 by mr-lizard]

A sarcastic statement is often disguised as a question for which the speaker seeks no answer.....

[edit on 6-1-2009 by MCoG1980]

Originally posted by MCoG1980
Should if we consort with our conscience are we philosophising then too.
But when would Philosopher become prophecer. For this i turned to the tablets of thoth, although i do not know the credibility of these tablets, i do see wise words spoken in the tablets so i choose to take things from them despite whoever the actual author may be.

From The Law of Cause and Effect and the Key of Prophecy:

Know ye, O man,
that all of the future is an open book
to him who can read.
All effect shall bring forth its causes
as all effects grew from the first cause.
Know ye the future is not fixed or
stable but varies as cause brings forth an effect.
Look in the cause thou shalt bring into being,
and surely thou shalt see that all is effect.


So, O man, be sure the effects that ye bring
forth are ever causes of more perfect effects.
Know ye the future is never in fixation but
follows man's free will as it moves through
the movements of time-space toward
the goal where a new time begins.

Man can only read the future through
the causes that bring the effects.
Seek ye within the causation and
surely ye shall find the effects.

Source: www.crystalinks.com...

Anyway, i hope you can see what i mean, as i said earlier, i aren't very good at getting my point across to well.

[edit on 6-1-2009 by MCoG1980]

I found this article were an experiment was conducted quite interesting. Do we actually predict the future ?

www.wariscrime.com...




For the truth do we need to then truly have to look to our own conscience, before we do or say anything - see the cause of those effects. Do we consort ourselves before we truly accept something and beleive. If you posess knowledge of something or can see something which contridicts that beleief but ohers do not, are they wrong to beleive? You accept until it is debunked so to speak and the process could go on and on.

But where does that final say in your conscience lie. What makes that final descision for you, what direction you move? To whom and with what you actually descide to be true and correct. When you think that everyones conscience is actually a reflection of their perception, there interpretation of the knowledge they have aquired, then how do you know that persons philiosophy is the right philosophy?





[edit on 6-1-2009 by MCoG1980]

about philosophy vs. prophecy:

I think that philosophy would be how events can effect you, in terms of your reactions, and your dealings with them, or how you look at the events.

Prophecy would be how the events will effect you, in terms of the body, and the dealings with you, or others.

almost like philosophy is inner, out, and prophecy is outer, in (hard to explain)

I think that we can train our lower selves, our instinctual selves to act on a philosphical, and moral ground, like instead of killing an animal for meat, you wouldnt want to kill it because its a life. I find that people connect more if they are talking from a philosophical angle, and not a mathematical angle. Really if you think about it, Morality, Ethics, and Philosophy are all like Human Soul Math.

Originally posted by iwishicould
about philosophy vs. prophecy:

I think that philosophy would be how events can effect you, in terms of your reactions, and your dealings with them, or how you look at the events.

Prophecy would be how the events will effect you, in terms of the body, and the dealings with you, or others.

almost like philosophy is inner, out, and prophecy is outer, in (hard to explain)

I see what you you are saying and my own thoughts on this are not too disimilar, although still different. In my opinion the philosopher uses aquired knowedge and both looks into the effects and the cause of those effects. but doesn't there have to be a cause for those effects. ] The prophecer to me is someone who can see an outcome by looking into the causes and effects. Maybe I have this wrong, i dont know? That is to me what the Tablet is saying. That you can read the future by looking into cause and effect to predict an outcome - Urghh, my brain hurts, this is like chicken and the egg stuff to me.

I think that we can train our lower selves, our instinctual selves to act on a philosphical, and moral ground, like instead of killing an animal for meat, you wouldnt want to kill it because its a life. I find that people connect more if they are talking from a philosophical angle, and not a mathematical angle. Really if you think about it, Morality, Ethics, and Philosophy are all like Human Soul Math.

I like that, Human Soul Math. I have no doubt we can do act on an instinctive level, governed by emotion. I think we are naturally Inquisitive creatures but our emotions rule over the intellectual. I think you have to have to learn patience and understanding before you can progress. That way you can learn to see other perceptions and not that of just your own.

I thank you for the quote from the Egyptian book I think it is quite good; the cynic in me regards it quite simply as an early and accurate apprehension of the scientific method, and succinctly stated at that - though this could have something to do with a modern interpreter. It has resonances with Buddhism especially early traditional Buddhism - the eightfoldpath - suffering has a cause etc. Beyond that I see an exhortation to pay special attention to the causes in your life - choice as an independent causal effect whose effects should be paid special attention to - effectively as ye sow so shall ye reap. It bypasses artificial boundaries between scientific causes and moral quandries by aggressively assuming choices are causes.

reply to post by liquidself



Great Isn't it, The Emerald Tblets of Thoth. As i said i dont know the authenticity of the tablets, only that they were supposedly translated by a Dr Doreal. Dr Doreal was meant to have been granted permission to translate the tablets whilst in his possesion in the 1920's/30's. That is all i could find. Authentic or not, they make thought provoking reading. Even for someone in the 1920's. I think i would like them to be true, full of wisdom whoever the writer maybe.

questions = answers

all questions create answers
and all answers create questions

A philosopher is a scientist with no thumbs. Given enough time and paper a philisopher can prove anything! Best of all possible jobs.

hm. could we say then that a scientist is a philosopher with no fingers? just thumbs. could we then say that a scientist is a philosopher who is all thumbs? lol. just as stupid either way. If you seriously think that your scientist heroes dont think about philosophy then you have a lot to think about.