Emotion creates Reality , page 3
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reply posted on 10-1-2009 @ 12:53 PM by TheWayISeeIt
reply to post by kosmicjack


Don't you dare crawl anywhere. If your going someplace you go with your head held high.

The dynamic here is not unlike what happens when people have differing spritual beliefs. I believe that we 'create our own reality'. I believe that emotion carries great power whether one is ignorant of (what I consider) this fact or not.

Nothing is going to dissuade me from this POV. It's fundamental, but I am not a proselytizing Fundamentalist.

There are those here on this board -- intelligent, informed people -- who clearly feel that bilogical-science as it is academically taught at this point in time is their truth. That's fine.

We may consider it a limited POV and one that, ironically, does not take into consideration the discoveries in Quantum Physics which keep continually reinforcing emotion/perpective creates reality. But so be it.

I think this thread is great. I think the belated restraint the poster on the bottom of the last page showed by editing/deleting his response because he realized it was hurtful is great.

Most importantly I think there is a way to engage in this dialogue without anyone having to feel they are going to have to change their belief systems (or change others), but being open to learning about others, w/o defensively denigrating them.

Let's try it, shall we?

Let's be the change we seek



reply posted on 10-1-2009 @ 10:55 PM by Astyanax
reply to post by TheWayISeeIt

We may consider it a limited POV and one that, ironically, does not take into consideration the discoveries in Quantum Physics which keep continually reinforcing emotion/perpective creates reality. But so be it.

With all due respect, I probably know a good deal more about quantum mechanics than you do; I read for a physics degree and have tried to keep up since I left university, though I acknowledge that I am a layman, not a physicist.

I also - and pardon me - know that people who talk about 'quantum physics' rather than 'quantum mechanics' or 'quantum theory' are people whose acquaintace with the subject is owed to pseudoscientific documentaries like What the Bleep do We Know? and superstitious New Age twaddle peddled by people who wouldn't recognize Planck's Constant if it bit them in the leg.

And I can assure you with complete confidence that you are wrong. There is not a single aspect of quantum mechanics - not one - that provides support for the idea that human beings can will the course of events over which they have no direct control of the ordinary, causal sort. On the contrary, the uncertainty principle suggests that even ordinary causality is illusory; we really have no control at all.

I think the belated restraint the poster on the bottom of the last page showed by editing/deleting his response because he realized it was hurtful is great.

Perhaps I should just leave it at that; but I cannot resist pointing out that, deeply and passionately though I regretted that post, I could not unpost it, nor prevent people from having read it, nor erase kosmicjack's at least temporary distress; I could edit out my unkind content, but the damage was already done, and no amount of wishing it were otherwise - by kosmicjack, myself, or anyone else - could alter that reality one jot. Again: you may choose to believe that emotion creates reality, but it does not; neither your reality, nor anyone else's.

And although I have edited my post, my position regarding the moral ugliness at the heart of this self-serving 'philosophy' stands; thoughtlessly and innocently as you may have embraced it, you know better now because of this discussion. You know that - quite apart from being false - it is selfish, heedless and vile. Will you still cleave to it?


reply posted on 11-1-2009 @ 01:20 AM by TheWayISeeIt
Originally posted by Astyanax


And I can assure you with complete confidence that you are wrong. There is not a single aspect of quantum mechanics - not one - that provides support for the idea that human beings can will the course of events over which they have no direct control of the ordinary, causal sort. On the contrary, the uncertainty principle suggests that even ordinary causality is illusory; we really have no control at all.


Uh-huh. Threee words:

DOUBLE SLIT EXPERIMENT


I could edit out my unkind content, but the damage was already done, and no amount of wishing it were otherwise - by kosmicjack, myself, or anyone else - could alter that reality one jot. Again: you may choose to believe that emotion creates reality, but it does not; neither your reality, nor anyone else's.


And you know this, how? I am unclear as to where in your posts you have empiracally proven this? (Also, I'm pretty sure anyone who read that post had their reality impacted in the moment, esp. kj)


And although I have edited my post, my position regarding the moral ugliness at the heart of this self-serving 'philosophy' stands; thoughtlessly and innocently as you may have embraced it, you know better now because of this discussion. You know that - quite apart from being false - it is selfish, heedless and vile.


Actually, no, I don't. And it is a little nutty that you keep thinking you are going to simply state something and my belief-system is supposed to be miraculously changed...


Will you still cleave to it?


Umm, yeah, I will. I will also, for the moment at least, cleave to the idea that you have serious ego-issues you may want to look into.

Apparently I missed the memo where it was stated that:

"Everything Astyanax believes to be right, is true and he is entitled to insult and condescend to those who disagree with him as he is the Final Moral Authority on all things he chooses to have an opinion on".

Lucky me.


reply posted on 11-1-2009 @ 11:10 AM by Astyanax
There's no discouragement
Shall make him once relent
His first avowed intent

Originally posted by TheWayISeeIt

Uh-huh. Threee words: DOUBLE SLIT EXPERIMENT

Nice interference fringe simulation on the caps text. The 'observer effect' does not prove what you think it does. Does the observer have any volitional control over what passes through which slit?

ASTYANAX: You may choose to believe that emotion creates reality, but it does not; neither your reality, nor anyone else's.

THEWAYISEEIT: And you know this, how? I am unclear as to where in your posts you have empiracally proven this?

I never said anything about my posts. What I said was 'you know better now because of this discussion'. But never mind, because, look:

TWISI: (Also, I'm pretty sure anyone who read that post had their reality impacted in the moment, esp. kj)

You've already taken the point. That's it, precisely.

ASTNX: (preaching again): And although I have edited my post... selfish, heedless and vile.

TWISI: Actually, no, I don't.

But then you can't have been following. I wasn't the first poster to point out the solipsistic and egotistical premises on which this putative philosophy is based.

So you see, the memo where it said:

Everything Astyanax believes to be right, is true and he is entitled to insult and condescend to those who disagree with him as he is the Final Moral Authority on all things he chooses to have an opinion on.

..was never sent.

I don't see where I insulted you, unless you are the belief you have chosen to hold. You may take it as a given that everything Astyanax believes to be right is not necessarily right at all, but he believes in it strongly enough to state it definitely. Such caveats go without saying; don't be so thin-skinned. As far as I'm concerned, you're welcome to keep believing in the Law of Attraction as long as you like - let's see how for how many years you can keep it up!


reply posted on 11-1-2009 @ 11:23 AM by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by Astyanax


man, Dostoevsky first thing in the morning...

I may have to go for a long walk - shake it off :-)

but, I do understand your point - and I agree - mostly

I don't often post in the science forum because what would be the point? Not really my area

I read here anyway. Sometimes until my brain starts to bleed

this thread seems to be not so much science as pondering the mysteries however - so, here I go...


...But this is the kind of fiction, harrowing as it is, that pales before reality. And this Law of Attraction, which - yes, you are right - equates precisely to the idea that emotion creates reality, is essentially the willingness to ignore all the sorrow and horror and injustice of the world and concentrate on building one's own wilfully blind self-created non-reality.

I think you have an idea of where my beliefs are in all this - they're pretty plastic

what I think about this is bound to irritate both sides of this argument because it's not mystical, romantic or scientific - it's simplistic

since defining reality is up for grabs - I believe (are there any 2 words more annoying?) I won't go there

and as far as emotion creating reality as it's being discussed here - I don't know. I still have room enough in my mind to consider that much of our existence is a complete mystery, and that things seem impossible only because we can't see a legitimate way for them to be possible

I think that we use emotion, or wishful thinking, as an obvious first step towards reality - to create a safe place. A place we can escape to from time to time that allows us to function in a world where all the horror and injustice is an inescapable reality

This part of reality can be paralyzing

Maybe science could accommodate the concept by looking at it as a survival mechanism - that allows an individual to function - if nothing more than that. If it is deceptive - it's for a practical reason - it provides an individual enough space to make real what they'd prefer to be real

you have to want something first

it is delusion, but it's not specific to the law of attraction - and we all use it because we have to. It stops being useful when it becomes an addictive crutch and isolates you completely from the harsher realities of this world. At that point one can become self centered, self serving and dysfunctional

But, I do see how "wishing" can create reality - it's the individual that interprets the process as magic, philosophy - or even science

in the end the wish, desire, idea or plan is the first step towards a goal - past that it's just arguing about packaging - or marketing



reply posted on 11-1-2009 @ 01:25 PM by TheWayISeeIt
reply to post by Astyanax



Does the observer have any volitional control over what passes through which slit?


I think so, yes. Does the observer consciously know they have control is the question. If we are to take anything away for sure from Feynman it is that the wave/particle has a 'job' to do when it is observed from 3-D POV. Why?

My personal belief system, which is partially akin to Buddhist principle, is that 3-D reality is a mental construct (NOTE: 1.5 billion of the global populous subscribes to this belief system). From that perspective we have to ask ourselves, what are we using to construct this reality? What is telling that wave/particle/atom/electron (as I'm sure you know the double slit experiment proves out the same with all of the above. Which is to say the building blocks of our entire reality, as you would define it, behave differently when 'observed') that once it is observed from 3D POV it needs to behave in such a way.

What is the trigger of 3D observation?

I believe it is emotional intent/energy/focus.

In Western World academia we are taught that we are nothing more than our brain/body, that life is random and our Free Will is at the mercy of fates beyond our control. To sum: It is a pointless life and life is pointless.

I say to each his own, but I am glad that line of thinking is a) not mine and b) in the minority.

Let's look to another Eastern belief system, Hinduism. Hinduism has over a billion adherents and a theological foundation based on reincarnation; the thrust of which is that you choose the current context of this life by actions in your past life with the ultimate purpose of education your soul so you can merge with the Godhead.

While I personally do not agree that this life is arbitrarily dictated by a past life, I do believe we choose our birthplace, parents, friends, lovers and challenges in life to educate our 'soul'. I believe that life has a purpose and that purpose is to learn by experience while exercising Free Will in a multi-dimensional reality.

I believe those born into suffering have chosen that path this time around for a reason, but that does not absolve the 'more fortunate' from assisting those who are suffering.

As Skyfloating so succinctly said in an earlier post, if you are unhappy you are less able to be of service to those in need. And as I said in an earlier post, I think this conversation would be best served if we approached one another with the same courtesy that (I hope) we would extend to someone who had a differing religious/spiritual beliefs and would ask that you please stop with the ‘selfish, heedless, vile, solipsistic’ language if you do not want to be characterized as insulting and condescending.

I am happy to have a dialogue and welcome your disagreement, but not your presumptuous intent of changing my core beliefs with your every post (I am also at a loss as to how you would think the discussion thus far in this thread should sway me so either ).

Respectfully,
TWISI


reply posted on 29-1-2009 @ 03:25 PM by StellarX
Originally posted by Wehali
An individual human really does create and manifest every single aspect of
his life himself.


How?

Through the consequences of his actions, and the
manifestations of his words and thoughts, a human is not only responsibly
for everything that happens to him, for every situation he finds himself in,
he is the creator of it.


Again this is not a explanation of how this work but a presumption of cause and effect without the introduction of any natural laws in action.

Remember that people - YOU are completely responsibly for every tiny part of your past, present and future, you are the creator of all the situations youexperience.


My past? We are responsible for the actions of our parents or family which are very much our past? How can individuals be said to be fully responsible for the events that are taking place in their houses, towns, cities or countries? How are people the exclusive creators of their situations and experiences?

You cannot place responsibility for mishaps anywhere but with
yourself.


I can and so can everyone else who tries to evaluate exactly how they they interact with the world. I for one can most certainly see that billions of people all around the world are not only not the exclusive authors of their situations but are not even fully aware of who are.

Even when it seems that someone else is the cause of your pain:
on a different conscious level, you have attracted and orchestrated the event
all by your self.. the person that hurt you, is just a tool that you've used to
experience the event.


Right. Starving 6 month old kids must have attracted the pain and suffering that will soon end their very short lives. I wished we lived in a perfectly world where i could go to bed at night knowing that every person who suffers deserves it but luckily i am not such a conceited and self congratulating #$#%#%.

But that does NOT mean that you should not help those in pain. Just becausepeople create their own misery, does not mean they want to continue livingin it!


A honest to god humanitarian. Are you that guy behind the soup kitchen table with the self satisfied smile that people would rather avoid than take food from?

Why help people who 'deserved' the problems and pain they are experiencing? Why bother in a perfect world where god ( or something , apparently) is sorting out everything as it should be?

When you see someone that could use your help, it is your duty to doyour best to help this person. Though you should never force your help ontosomeone that does not want it, even if you think he needs it.


Why is it my duty to help people who are deserving of their circumstances? Why upset such a perfect system with my ill conceived spineless sentimental nonsense?

Logic is hell.

Stellar
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