New Contender For Ultimate Jacket

Kit is a subject close to my heart, I like quality, I like durability and I like sensible prices, I also like kit that is fit for role, IE suitable for long term use by survivalists.

One of my main concerns is always top coats/ jackets and boots, I got the boot issue sorted by using Magnum Elite spiders for EDC but use repairable/ resoleable Altberg Military boots for my main BOB, In the US Danner Arcadias are about the same.

But getting back to my topcoat or jacket, I have yet to find a jacket that meets all of the needs of the tactical switched on survivalist. Being ex military I want the benefits of military design but not the shortcoming that come from kit being made by the lowest bidder, and I dont want Cammo.

For me a jacket should have loads of pockets for kit, a hood, draw cords, buttons or press studs and as little VELCRO as possible (Velcro is sooooo noisy when you are in the boonies trying to be quiet as possible, noise equates to getting shot in my book). It needs to be tough yet comfortable and its does not need to be rustly (as in noisy material, a major flaw in Goretex and Similar materials) I also like the waterproofing to last for than 18 months thats something most modern fabrics and laminates can not do if worked hard ( Webbing and rucksacks, slings and pouches can very soon damage the waterproof membrane).

This got me thinking and drove me to start looking to see if their was anything on the market with the functionality of the older style of combat smocks like the British Mk 11 and the US M65, but was modernised and a lot more waterproof with being noisy. I think I MAY have found something. In the later part of the 20th century I found that in both the SAS and RAF some folks had jackets that were functional, very quiet,tough as nails and waterproof, and NOT made of PU or Goretex or sprayed in flammable silicone. The SAS or at least some of them had warm, quiet, waterproof multi pocket smocks made that were also flame resistant (at least better than synthetics). They had come across this fabric that was being used by fighter pilots in the RAF who wanted warmth, waterproofing, toughness and flame resistant after bailing out of crashing planes. So I did some more digging and these are the results of my findings.

First please take a look at the Ventile page

www.ventile.co.uk

then have a look at the Westwinds website,

www.west-winds.co.uk...

I was very impressed by what I read and I believe some SAS guys and SFSG guys still use ventile in custom made and ready made clothing.
If any of you folks have any experience with this stuff please post a revue of your kit.

[edit on 6-1-2009 by Northern Raider]

[edit on 6-1-2009 by Northern Raider]

This may be serendipitous as my girlfriend wants to buy me a new coat and I have stipulated several requirements, mainly in the area of weather proofing.

Couple of things: At the risk of sounding stupid, what happened to the popular phrase "cotton kills". One would assume as this is over-wear and proofed with such a close weave this isn't an issue with this particular strand [pun intended].

Secondly, I think I would have to check these out in person. I have long arms for my height and struggle to find suitable wrist protection. Managed to get a pair of Berghaus gloves that look more like gauntlets but I finally have full hand and wrist protection. Also I like a coat to extend below the waistline. Practically speaking if I'm working outdoors the last thing I want is the wind whistling a tune around my kidneys.

They do look quite nice though I'm not sure the 'missus would agree...

I sure like my Burberry (the original Trench Coat from WWI). A tight cotton weave that is waterproof in British Tan (tan w greenish tint), complete with D rings (for grenades) and a leather belt buckle. Decidedly Old School.

Nice find. I have been a fan of broken in Filson tin cloth products for years. This ventile product could be contender.

www.filson.com...


I found this Ventile review. I didn't know the product had been around for so long. outside.away.com...

[edit on 6-1-2009 by jibeho]

I'm partial to U.S. military M-64's. I have one that was issued to a guy i know during the vietnam war, and it is still in good shape. They are very warm and durable, and have large pockets. Plus you can get a removable insulated liner for extremely cold weather.

reply to post by Anuubis

---

The original "Field Coat" is nice on a dry day that doesnt drop below freezing with no wind blowing. If It rains it'll weigh 30 lbs and it's also pretty bulky. That being said I still own one. If you are looking for a Jack of all spades coat that's tactical & doesn't scream military , check this

reply to post by EyesWideShut

---

Treat it with scotchgard and you won't get soaked.
That one you posted the link for is still really cool though.

Wool jackets are the only way to go if you have to deal with cold weather.

Filson, King of the mountain, grey wolf.

All very expensive, but wool is worth it.

[edit on 7-1-2009 by METACOMET]

A few years back, motorcycle (offroad) enduro riders wore a cotton jacket that was waterproofed with what Americans call paraffin.
(The white wax that home canning people use to seal the tops of home-made jams and jellies.

Worked quite well and was a standard for UK motorcyclists who used their bikes for everyday transportation.

The material on the outside was called "waxed cotton."

Barbour was the brand name if I remember right.

A little break-in was required, but after that only reasonable care was required.


I still have a nylon Malcom Smith (brand name) enduro jacket.
Nylon outer and nylon lined, but not insulated.
Stayed warm enough at speeds up to 60 mph or so and wearing a T-shirt and sweatshirt underneath along with a knit wool watchcap under your helmet was good for mountain riding in light-moderate snow conditions.

Lots of pockets, but a lot of Velcro on the pocket closures.

Nice part with is the Velcro sleeve adjuster to keep the wind out as well as a priest type collar with Velcro adjuster.

The front zipper also has a Velcro retained wind flap across the front of the zipper.

Length is about crotch level.

Comes with an adjustable nylon belt that adjusts and has a military type insert & twist buckle.

Nice bit with the belt is that you can ride with the front zipper open all the way and the buckled belt keeps the flapping to a minimum.

You can take it off, roll it up a touch and keep it on your person with the belt.

They came - still do? - in many colors and except for the fact that mine is red could do the trick.

The Barbour enduro jacket noted above is olive drab and probably quieter than the nylon style that copies the Babour.

[edit on 7-1-2009 by Desert Dawg]

[edit on 7-1-2009 by Desert Dawg]

Barbour and Belstaff were the two most common brands of wax cotton jackets, I think they still make them, and also in Cordura.

If you have more money than sense and want to look like you just came off the set of Star Trek ( or California) you may fancy one of these

web.mac.com...

I am an Army Brat and I wore one of my Dad's long wool trench coat in college...a removable lining (silk and camel?). Really well made and sharp looking (belted, epaulets, the works). One of my favorite coats.

Never thought about that... I'll have to try that one out -
Thanks

Edit to reflect reply to Anuubis

[edit on 8-1-2009 by EyesWideShut]

I hear you. I decided to get a new outer layer jacket recently myself and wanted something of great quality, but with military features. I also wanted something non-camo and preferably not the classic OD green military colour. In addition I looked for something stealthy as I wanted to use it on stalking hunts. It had to be water-proof as it rains a lot where I live.

There really is no perfect jacket, but you can come damn close. You have to make some compromises. Ventilation vs water-resistance (no point in wearing a jacket that protects you 100% from the rain if you get wet from the inside) vs stealthiness vs features.

I have two suggestions.

1. Ceck out TAD Gear's softshell jackets at: tadgear.com...

[All the information on the TAD Gear jackets is gathered through other people's opinion on various forums on the Internet while I was researching ahead of my recent purchase of a new outer layer jacket]

These jackets offer great stealth, especially the sharkskin models. The also have a good number of pockets and nifty features, like organization webbing on the inside of pockets for pens, flashlights, knives..etc, and velcro patches for name-tags, flags or maybe a pen holder. The material is very durable and is almost slightly elastic in nature. And the colours are sweet. TAD gear don't use the classic military colour schemes, but have their own. A grey/black, a green/grey and a brown/tan. The jackets also have a great fit. You will look very good in them.. as in, fashionably sane, if that is at all important to you :p What you will have to compromise on is water profness, but not much. They are build to be water-reppeling and not water-proof, but according to several writeups on forums and reviewsites they will keep you dry for a long time in some pretty heavy rain.

www.militarymorons.com... have some great reviews on the TAD Gear stuff, including some of the earlier versions of the stealth jackets. (there are 4 versions at the moment). Check out page 5 for the writup on the predator hardshells from TAD Gear as well if you can compromise some on the stealthiness you would get with a softshell.

2. Arc'Teryx LEAF Alpha leaf.arcteryx.com...

I own this jacket myself. I compromised on stealth and got a hardshell, as I really needed something waterproof. I love this jacket. The build quality is insane. I have used Bergans jackets before, and Bergans also have superior quality on their best jackets, but lack the tactical finesse you get through the Arc'teryx LEAF (Law Enforcement and Armed Forces) stuff. Everything is watertight on it, the fit is very good, it is very lightweight and packs down extremely small in your pack, which I see as a very good feature as I usually wear multiple layers and often have a very full backpack. It has armpit vents, which rocks, and the colour is sexy... it's sort of a mix of OD Green and Khaki, but it leans a bit more towards the OD than what some pictures may suggest. It is made in MI270 Gore-Tex XCR material with a DWR coating, so you need to replace that coating from time to time. It offers very good water-repellancy though. I was out in some heavy, heavy rain here the other day that soaked me through all the layers on my lower body (woolen base layer, denim pants and some old semi-water-reppelling outer layer pants). I was 100% dry under my jacket.

You can find a short but nice writeup on it here: www.militarymorons.com... (towards the middle of the page)

Cons: It is expensive. For me it was not such a shocking price, as it is roughly the same price as a normal high quality outer layer jacket in Norway, and cheaper than some of the top models of for example Bergans (I love shopping from the US). It can also be hard to find a place that sells it to civilians, as Arc'Teryx is very strick about their LEAF program. Check leaf.arcteryx.com...