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Why am I afraid to Criticize Israel?

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posted on Jan, 6 2009 @ 02:33 AM
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Over the past week or so, Ive been paying alot of attention to the current conflict (almost all of us have).

And ive taken a strong neutral approach, which is truely the best approach as an outsider with no relation to either party.

But I have been fearful to criticize Israel, like genuinely fearful of the repercussions. Maybe Im paranoid, but after witnessing the cheap tactics the Israelis are using to smear everyone , Ive been rightfully fearful.

Right, I feel much difficulty in expressing my opinion about Israel's nationalist fascim.

Reasons I have been fearful.

1) I have kids and fear for their lives.
No I dont think a Israeli would kill my kid (but they might in revenge who knows). I am for sure that they would use their financial powers to "punish" me tho. And if you put me on the street, my kids may starve and die.

2) I dont want to be Stalked by psychopaths.
I think that one speaks for itself. And yes i have a grave fear of being stalked or harassed by this group of fascists.

3) I dont want people making it their goal to ruin my reputation, credibility, or whatever illusion I pretend about myself.

4) Getting sued (The threats are already flying).

Overall, I have a family, and I have felt it a HUGE deal to make sure I kept "biting my tongue" so to speak.

I really am truely afraid of retaliation from the pro-israeli camp, because their "reactionism" is way over the top. I talk bad about you, you destroy my life. I dont like the prospects of that.

It is truely unfair, because in a "free society" I should be able to speak out agianst fascists without fearing the repercussions: harassment, financial assasination, red tape revenge, character assasination, stalking, threats, getting SUED, etc.

The existance of this backlash has put me in a position I do not like at all. I have kids to take care of here.

The reason I am not afraid of criticizing the Gazans is because they are in reality a pitiful band of rag tag farmers who have no capability to threaten me in any way at all. And they are so distracted by Israel they wouldnt even notice my criticism. I consider them sterile, or impotent. They just cant # me like the Israelis can # me. If you get my point.

Yes I am aware posting this thread puts me on their list, but Ive givin up on trying to walk on eggshells about this. I just feel bad for hiding my criticisms due to the threats of repercussion (and they are not illusions!).

Sorry for the rant guys, just had to get it off my chest.

Anyone else feel this way?




posted on Jan, 6 2009 @ 02:39 AM
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No. Unless you are being too unfair with your criticism of Israel and their right to exist then I don't see why anyone would feel that way. I just say I disagree with the actions done by Israel and people don't seem to have a problem with me saying that. So unless you're being bigoted towards Israel like many of the trolls on ATS here are like then I don't see why you would have a problem with criticizing another nation's actions.



posted on Jan, 6 2009 @ 02:48 AM
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You have to speak the truth from your heart uncorrupted.
Your attitude had manage to turn a blind eye to the holocaust when the war was raging only after the war ended that many people spoke out about it…toot late and too confusing.
Do not carry fear in you as fear will carry you to injustice and sad world.
Kacou.



posted on Jan, 6 2009 @ 02:56 AM
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reply to post by kacou
 


That's your opinion. People are allowed to have their opinions. I don't think that's the issue that was being addressed in the OP. The OP is worrying about appearing bigoted towards criticizing the war.



posted on Jan, 6 2009 @ 03:05 AM
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I think you're afraid of criticizing Israel because you have a bad case of Vaginitis. Come on man, you're on an open thought board. Sound off like you got a pair!



posted on Jan, 6 2009 @ 03:16 AM
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reply to post by Frankidealist35
 


The fact is that we has human shouldn’t be guided by our fear in any situation…the same fear that has turn a blind eye to the truth of the holocaust in the second world war.
For example many German knew the truth of the holocaust but fear got better of them self consequently guilt was born which in my view was unbearable then fear of denunciating the massacre. One way or another if you are scare to denounce an injustice then you are part of this injustice, it doesn’t matter if this injustice is created by the same people that have suffered horrible crimes in the past. This doesn’t give them the right to also commit injustice.
Here in German it is maybe very dangerous to talk against Israel then any other country, never the less many people remembers they parent s fear and will not now let they opinion guide by fear.
Kacou.



posted on Jan, 6 2009 @ 03:17 AM
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ya , but at least I can admit I was fearful
most people wouldnt even get that far...

I also encountered the same situation after 911 in my own nation the USA. It became almost impossible to criticize the govt without having direct physical punishment imposed on me.

And I admit, I like to stay "under the radar".

I dont need people knocking on my door tomorrow asking about my posts on ATS. I consider that fear tactics and harassment.

But is posting my opinion worth having my life made into a living hell?
Ive seen it happen to others in many situations in the past, there is a precedent set.

And honestly I wasnt so much afraid of being called bigoted, as I was more so afraid of people calling me making threats, sending false accusations agianst me to Homeland Security (saying im a terrorist) thus putting me on the "List" and restricting my ability to use air travel among tons of other "privledges".

Or just plain getting my checking account at the bank shut down out of spite and revenge. I know Israel has the power to silence anyone it wants to, thats why I fear their retribution so much.

Luckily, there are so many people criticizing this right now, I may be able to remain "under the radar" for the time being.
Thats my only consolation. Hiding in the crowd.

But then agian, being in a crowd might just make us a bigger target.



posted on Jan, 6 2009 @ 03:20 AM
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Originally posted by kacou
reply to post by Frankidealist35
 


.
For example many German knew the truth of the holocaust but fear got better of them self consequently guilt was born which in my view was unbearable then fear of denunciating the massacre.


Your missing my point.

If a German spoke out agianst the Holocaust, it wouldnt have stopped the massacre, it would only have ensured his place in the furnace next.

Please see things from this point of view for a moment and maybe you will understand.

Speaking out will not stop any war lol. It will only get you dragged into it.



posted on Jan, 6 2009 @ 03:31 AM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


If German people would have spoken out it will have save one life maybe …one single life is always good and honorable to save.
If you live in a country where you are scare about who will knock on your door because you had posted some comment in the internet then I think this country regime is as bad as the Nazi regime.
I understand your position but don’t agree with it…because for me what is most important in my life is to tell things the way they are…and what we witness in this so called war is an injustice…I don’t speak against or for it , I speak of a fact with out dragging my self in to it.
Remember wars are rage in accordance to public opinion.
Kacou



posted on Jan, 6 2009 @ 08:39 AM
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reply to post by kacou
 


good points, and i do agree for the most part

you said you disagreed with my position, well i disagree with my position also


i guess this thread was in a way, me trying to overcome those shortcomings



posted on Jan, 6 2009 @ 08:42 AM
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Originally posted by midnightbrigade
I think you're afraid of criticizing Israel because you have a bad case of Vaginitis. Come on man, you're on an open thought board. Sound off like you got a pair!


Nothing like responding to someone's fear of sounding bigoted and racist with sexist remarks.



posted on Jan, 6 2009 @ 08:53 AM
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reply to post by darkelf
 


So the irony wasn't lost on you? good job!




posted on Jan, 6 2009 @ 12:48 PM
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well, I have a lot jewish friends. but I always tell them right in the face that what is going on in Israel is totally insane and these are not a Palestinians to blame. I am pretty happy cause they still are drinking with me.

but you are right. on all forums they are very agressive. and who knows what they really could do if they only really wanted to. but I still belive that one day they are going to understand the sickness of terror they served to Palestinians. and they will also understand that it is not against them but agains evil present in the middle east politics. in fact many did already. there are protests in Israel, there are organizations of young ex soldiers speaking out the truth. it is changing.

I really hope it finally will change the whole region. and for that reason I will insist to speak out my opinion to made it happen faster.

and the idea of use JDL or another jewish organization against ATS members or sue the ATS itself is just "non comment" issue.



posted on Jan, 6 2009 @ 01:09 PM
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I think you are afraid to criticize Israel for the same reason some people are overly cautious about criticizing African Americans. (And women to some degree) They are groups that have historically suffered an injustice, and then gone on to create an identity as "perpetual victim."

Even rational criticisms then can be deflected with the "racist" or "anti-Semite" or "sexist" battle cry.

Mind you I am not stating that ALL individuals of either group participate in this, but as groups the "victim" identity is used as a weapon to deflect any criticism at all, no matter how grounded in fact that criticism may be.

This is also not to discount the reality of sexism, racism, or Antisemitism. They obviously DO exist. But there is a vocal segment of these groups that have decided to use the real fact of these discriminations to excuse any and all of their own behaviors, even when their behaviors are obviously racist, sexist or otherwise discriminatory themselves.

Your decision to buckle under this pressure, however, is your own. You neednt. In fact, I would argue that it is time to stand up to those that cry "Wolf!" regarding racism and other forms of discrimination in a concerted way so that we can begin to focus not on their hysterical claims but the very real instances of discrimination that do occur in the world.



Edit to add; I also agree with Darkelf that the "vaginitus" comment was indeed, sexist. There is no evidence to bear out a claim that women are less likely to speak out against injustice.

[edit on 6-1-2009 by Illusionsaregrander]



posted on Jan, 6 2009 @ 01:13 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


The problem with critising the actions of the Israeli government is you must seperate religion from politics - easy enough when taking an obkective few of the present conflict - but the moment you say anything the pro-israel brigade jump in with 2 feet and spam


ANTI-SEMITIC


even when talking about `is it right for military to target civilians` - say its wrong and your an anti-semite



posted on Jan, 7 2009 @ 01:40 AM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 


ROFL! The vaginitus comment had nothing to do with women not speaking out. It's a reference to a South Park episode where one of the boys stopped eating meat, broke out in sores and eventually would have become one big vagina, all because he felt bad about something stupid.

In reference here, I was saying he's afraid to speak out because he's a being a pussy.



posted on Jan, 7 2009 @ 01:48 AM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash
1) I have kids and fear for their lives.
No I dont think a Israeli would kill my kid (but they might in revenge who knows). I am for sure that they would use their financial powers to "punish" me tho. And if you put me on the street, my kids may starve and die.



I have a child too but I find that that makes me a bit braver, I want him to grow up knowing right from wrong. To me that applies to the big things, like war, as well as the little, like stealing for example.

As a parent I love this song, it says it all in many ways.

uk.youtube.com...

Edit to fix link...not sure what happened there


[edit on 7-1-2009 by KilgoreTrout]



posted on Jan, 7 2009 @ 02:07 AM
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reply to post by midnightbrigade
 





Okay, so, in watching that episode, did it never occur to you to question why a part of the female anatomy (the defining part, the one concrete external difference between men and women) would be synonymous with cowardice?

You personally may not have consciously used the term as a slight against female bravery, but the concept that cowardice or weakness is associated with vaginas is a sexist one, and not really based in fact.

Thats all, I dont really care how sexist you are or are not. I know lots of people use racist or sexist terms thoughtlessly, because they picked them up and have never considered what that means, but that doesnt make the concept any less sexist. Darkelf was absolutely correct to point it out.

Edit to add;

"Sound off like you got a pair" is another reference to the idea that men will stand up while women wont. Maybe you are just in denial about your own conditioning.






[edit on 7-1-2009 by Illusionsaregrander]



posted on Jan, 7 2009 @ 03:05 AM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 


Or maybe your an overreacting emotionophite who needs to get over themselves? The "sound off like you got a pair" came from the move "Full Metal Jacket" and it was meant to be an encouragement. Stop looking for faults in others and focus on your own.

The person I was posting to was a guy. Using terms like that are not to detract from feminine bravery, or imply that they are weak. They are meant to basically tell him to toughen up and be a man.

If it was a woman posting, I would have said, "You give birth, you can handle the pain of speaking your mind".

Some things and often humor are truly situational. Don't get all emo on me because you don't understand my humor. It wasn't for you. Also, please don't hold me to such broad generalization. In point of fact, I would venture to say that you are the one with a sexist problem, as you automatically assume what I was saying was either intentionally or unintentionally sexist. Take it for the context its in, for the reason its there, and don't read too much in to it. Also, stop being so pseudo intellectual. You only wind up looking like a idiot.





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