Norwegian doctor: Israel intentionally targeting civilians

Are they intentionally targeting civilians or are the Hamas fighters hiding among the civilians (ie, markets, mosques and schools) and the IDF is not necessarily concerned with "collateral damage"???

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
I am reporting your Post to the Mods for removal for violating the TOS of ATS...

I find that disturbing.

Whether it is your intention or not, if you are successful at having this thread removed you will in effect be preventing information from reaching people. You will be keeping people in the dark.

I want to know everything that is going on in Gaza. I want to hear what people have to say who are there.

It seems that you would like to prevent that...

Originally posted by earthman4

Was that sarcasm? Are you saying terrorists all dress the same? I have a hard time with your posts.

Yes, was it sarcasm? Possibly. But it's ultimately up to you how you perceive it.

Interesting how they use the mouse on the left hand to have the trigger finger free.

A couple possible explanations. They only recruit lefties in this terrorist organization - perhaps for the reason you suggest. Or their training allows them to use either hand.

reply to post by pepsi78


Firstly how do you know they don't speak english, besides being able to write coherently isn't vital if you want to get your post on the front page -unlike america and the uk statisticly most arabs can speak 3 or more languages.

secondly maybe they're on an arab website, the non-english internet is quite a big place.

reply to post by theindependentjournal


So let me get this straight, an Israeli f-16 bombs a building in gaza with children on the roof, and it is Hamas's fault.


Do you really not see the problem here?

It is

A) The pilot's fault, everyone knows that the ultimate decision to release the ordinance is on the pilot.

B) IDF's fault for targeting civilians.

C) Israels fault for ordering the mission.

D)America's fault for giving Israel the plane, the bomb and the cash to fund it.

Originally posted by NatureBoy
reply to post by pepsi78

 

Firstly how do you know they don't speak english, besides being able to write coherently isn't vital if you want to get your post on the front page

-unlike america and the uk statisticly most arabs can speak 3 or more languages.

secondly maybe they're on an arab website, the non-english internet is quite a big place.

Then search who registered before the war, you will find that it's just Centurion trying to get back and make it taller than the massacred children.Really nothing what is going on there will justify anything.So you know there are a bunch of kids but also some militants , you press the button and state proud :let god sort them out. That won't excuse you from being a criminal.Hamas is an extremist group, but what Israel have done is beyond the limit of reasoning.There is no reasoning when you masss murderer children and then state it's someone else fault.It's worst than what Hamas has done altogether.What I hate to see is brainewashed people.It does not count if 100, 1000 , 2000, 5000 children die, for them it's all the same.It's the winning that counts, that is how people are indoctrinated, that to win is more important than anything.And what better way to win then to blow up a bunch of pitiful people and call it honour.






[edit on 6-1-2009 by pepsi78]

reply to post by centurion1211
[Deltaboy,

Thanks for finally exposing one of the offices where the pro-hamas disinformation operation here on ATS is being run from. If we could read the names on the uniforms, I have no doubt we would recognize some members that post on these threads.
]

Give me a break

reply to post by theindependentjournal


You know the natural thing for kids to do of any species in any situation is play, right? And in a war zone it's gonna happen. Kids are kids. I think the point is that if you are flying a high tech military plane over a building and are going to bomb it, you probably are going to at some point look and see that there are children playing on that building. So you have to ask yourself, one, is it ok to kill children knowingly and, two, are you going to go ahead and kill them anyways. Either way I'd like 10 minutes alone in a room with you. If you make the right choice I'd like to thank and congratulate you, maybe see if together there was something we could do to make the world a better place. If you make the wrong choice... Even I can admit peace isn't always the answer.

Good day to you, sir.

reply to post by Darthorious

You must think the Israelis are very stupid if you believe they can't tell the difference between kids playing and terrorists firing rockets. Maybe we could all get together and create some sort of test for them to give their pilots that would prevent such dumb mistakes. I bet flash cards would do the trick.

I think it's obvious what Israel are doing. They're killing as many civilians as they can. They're depriving them of water, food and other basic needs. They're depriving them of sleep. They're subjecting them to hell.

Why? Israel is trying to break the peoples will. They want the people to turn on Hamas. I don't believe this tactic will work. I believe it will make the people more determined. I believe Hamas will have thousands upon thousands of new recruits who will be very angry with Israel for killing their dads, mothers, sisters, brothers and children.



[edit on 6uTuesday09/27/08 by paul76]

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


Children playing on rooftops is propaganda? Then it would have to be Norwegian propaganda since it came from a Norwegian doctor. This could be a great big HEEEEUUUGE conspiracy. The Norwegians are the propaganda machine behind Hamas. Quick spread the word!

I am not there so i am just going by what I read.

First the reporter says that the doctor BELIEVES- that IMO is not the same as I know.

Then the doctor describes the next two two incidents but never says I saw- this leads me to believe that he is getting second hand information.

Next he more a less describes a chaotic scene at the hospital and how busy it is and the lack of sleep- this tells me that the DR is way too busy to stand around and observe the war. I can also reach a logical conclusion that the doctor is also sleep deprived as his colleagues with so many wounded to attend to. I must say I do admire his heroic deeds to save lives.

Next he says he has seen one military. Hamas being a terrorist group and knowing that Israel is looking for the typical uniform they wear are not dumb. they will use guerrilla warfare and dress in civilian clothes to blend in.

The video shows bombed building and other places, wounded people, and chaos. It is no doubt a shocking video. However, the video doesn't tell me if that is the apartment that was bombed. The video doesn't tell me if that was the market place that was hit. The video doesn't show me which side did the damage to the people. Nor is there anyway I can be sure that the video is from that same day or events captured from the beginning.

Finally, I would like to say that with this report I cannot conclusively say whether Israel has committed these acts or not. Maybe they did or maybe Hamas did it themselves to blame Israel. The report and video are IMO just too inconclusive to say that they did.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS

In the end "not necessarily concerned" and "intentionally targeting" get you the same thing a bunch of dead civilians. It seems really strange that people have a hard time recognizing dead civilians is a bad thing. Whether those civilians be Israelis, Palestinians or even New York Giants fans... dead ones are a bad thing. Period.

reply to post by jam321


I have to agree with ya here Jam.

It appears someone is using a persons degree as a means of lending credence to their words.

That's pretty lame...


Almost as Bad as when the Senate used Frist as a means of giving a medical perspective on the state of the lady being held on life support in Florida a few years back.

"Well he's a doctor... you should listen to him"

bah...

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Appreciate that. I am just trying to be as fair as possible and broke it down as I read it. I hope more people start doing this cause some of these articles from both sides have picture or videos in them that don't correspond. Somebody is shooting for the shock value.

Update




[edit on 6-1-2009 by Al-Mahdi]

[edit on 6-1-2009 by Al-Mahdi]

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
reply to post by jhill76

 

Your link does not say what your Title says and that is a violation of ATS Rules as well as the new rules posted about posting on the Israeli/Hamas war.

I am reporting your Post to the Mods for removal for violating the TOS of ATS...

Hmmm. The title says exactly what the article reads. For breaking news submissions you are to:

Copy the exact headline of the story into the headline field, don't make one up or sensationalise it. Submissions with inaccurate, biased or otherwise deceptive headlines may be moved, closed or deleted. Obviously, some editorial latitude will be allowed if the original headline is too long (gets truncated), too obscure or already biased. If the headline is biased or otherwise inapporpriate, provide a descriptive headline that is accurate and reflects the article you're submitting. (This is a judgement call and may be modified by a moderator.)

Breaking News Forum Rules

So, I don't see how I broke the rules. As, I submitted this in the breaking news section, then it was later moved to this forum, so no I did not violate any rules.

OK

If there is a problem with the thread, the Staff will handle it...

Now PLEASE back to the topic:::

"Norwegian doctor: Israel intentionally targeting civilians"

Thank you

Semper

LATES REPORT FROM GAZA, translation from Norwegian newspaper article:

Near the limit of what we can endure

– We are very tired and depressed now. It is an enormous strain to be here. When I am done operating on a severely injured person, and I come out of the operation room, there are at least ten other patients waiting, tells professor Erik Fosse to Aftenposten.no.

He and Mads Gilbert has until now been the only Western doctors in Gaza. But Tuesday afternoon another team of doctors arrived at the hospital, and also one nurse from the organisation NORWAC which Fosse is in charge of.

During Tuesday 130 new patients arrived, most of them with substantional injuries.
– This has no end. More and more injured people are brought here. The situation is getting worse by the hour. And there are a lot of women and children, says Fosse.

He informs us that during the last 24 hours 160 people are said to be killed, and more than 400 injured. In total there are more than 2500 injured.
– Today they have closed both the eye clinic and the children's hospital here in Gaza city. They didn't have electricity anymore, says Fosse. – All electricity in Gaza city has been cut off. In this hospital we still have electricity, but we don't have fuel for more than maximum two days. If there are no depos of fuel nearby, and we don't get supplies, I don't know what will happen, says an exhausted Fosse.

He does not know when they will return home to Norway.
– But it is obvious that we will soon have to leave. Vi are at the limit of what we can manage. Everything feels pointless. So meny destroyed women and children. It is impossible to comprehend, says Fosse.
He adds that when new medical teams arrives, it will be easier for him and Gilbert to go.
– But it is also not safe to leave from here. And I worry about who will give rapports to the rest of the world about what is happening here when we leave. Now we are the only ones telling the world about it, says Fosse.

www.aftenposten.no...

[edit on 6/1/09 by ziggystar60]