I give you something to eat, and you chew on it for hours. Typical sheep.

Lets hope some day you figure out what you are eating.

I can't tell you how many times in my career I (and my partners) stand by and wait till PD has the scene safe. That scene, before the shooting, is nothing new to me. I have a few observations.

1) I saw two flashes and heard two shots.

I played it again and again . . . it looked and sounded like two shots.
The one officer by the head of the perp seemed to react to the second "Pop".
The one BART officer who is speaking into a Mic (portable radio) clipped on his left shoulder reacted to the first "POP", he turns, second "POP", he turns back.
This is important because the second shot seemed to be from the BART cop. He takes his gun out and points, hears a POP and pulls the trigger.
Investigation and release of information will also show if that cop shot twice. That would explain the 2 shots as well.

2) Cops do not (should not) draw a weapon unless there is cause to do so.

What did that cop see (or hear) that made him draw his gun? I have been in spots where a weapon turns up on a Perp. Someone yells "Gun!" Who knows, the Vids audio sucked too. I will not speculate that the perp in this Vid had a Gun, Knife, H-Bomb . . . He could have been unarmed.
One officer could have yelled "GUN!" First "POP" you hear could have been from another gun by a teen, accidental discharge from another officer . . .
I don't know.

3) Look at the reactions of ALL the BART officers afterwards.

The Officer who discharged his gun at the perp was NOT gloating about it. He places his hands to his head as in "Holy %&$!" This could have been an accidental discharge.

Bottom line - this perp should NOT have been shot, unless he pulled a weapon.

In any event, this incident is a Cluster &*%$ for sure and Rev. Al Sharpton is probably on a plane right now putting on his make-up.
My concern now is RIOTS!

I don't like to post so soon after I post . . . BUT.
I mentioned I was concerned about RIOTS now.
Let's NOT start one here at the forum please.

Bottom line . . . this incident is bad for many reasons.

1) A life was taken, a family member, friend is gone.
2) Persons that witnessed this will be affected in many bad ways and react in many bad ways.
3) The officers lives and careers have changed. (No matter what)
4) The "Vultures" will start circling. To be in front of a camera, to make a buck off the deceased, politics, "NEWS!" . . . etc.
5) Racial tension, it already started. (Please stop, I goes in bad directions).

Devils advocate:
I had a car chase go down right past our unit. It ended just I put the unit in drive. The Car hit the curb, ran up the sidewalk a bit and crashed into a Telephone pole (almost hitting an elderly woman). The "Perp" I saw got out of the car and reached into the front of his baggy ass pants, officer shoots once and hits the Perp in the right shoulder. Perp flies back into the car from the impact. We stand back till the scene is safe, only one person in the "Stolen car."
The "Kid" was a 15 y/o with a - get this - prior GSW. When I cut his shirt open, he had a Old Gunshot scar on his left shoulder. Now he has a matching set. The "Now patient" is high on crack, keeps yelling at me, "I love you man! I love you man!" as I attempt to stick a large bore IV into him and help his sorry ass.
Then he punches me in the face with his good arm and attempts to run out the back of the Ambulance. It takes 4 guys to hold down this 155 pound "Teen"! He gets cuffed to the stretcher this time. I try the IV again and notice blood dripping from me now. Yes, from my nose.

All kinds of bad thoughts were going on in my head at that time - let me tell you. But, we all did the right thing.

Point of this rant. Now, take a video of this scene.

15 y/o in a "Car accident". He gets out to say "Hello officers! I'm OK!", he adjust his pants and the police shoot him for no reason. He is removed to the "torture chamber" (My Ambulance) and is treated like an animal.

There was no gun on him . . . BUT . . . The Kid on crack was reaching for a gun. He missed the part when he hit the pole and it flew out under the brake pedal. It was recovered very soon after he was shot. I saw it, my partner saw it and the cops saw it. He was reaching for a wep!

Race played no part. This little "wack-job" could have killed and would have killed. Despite a shattered Clavicle, right sided pneumo and blood loss, he assaulted officers and me.
If a Video was taken, it would only show snippets of what people want to see.

Welcome to the Old World Order. You can be killed for being a confused polish immigrant in Vancouver, for being face down on the floor, for being a person not of your race or religion etc etc etc.

Originally posted by taserman

Originally posted by clay2 baraka

A person close to the investigation told the San Francisco Chronicle that BART officials are looking into the possibility that the officer thought he was firing a Taser and pulled out his gun by mistake.

Well, there is the defense.

As weak as that defense is, I am gonna bet the farm that it will hold up in court and the officer will go scot free.

Perfectly fine defense.

Put yourself in the officer's shoes. You are surrounded by a large mob of people who hate you and are issuing verbal threats against your life, one of them runs at you (whom a fellow officer tackles to the ground). While that man is tackled to the ground, he starts violently resisting arrest and tried to pull something from his shirt which could be used to kill you.

Your adrenaline is pumping, heart is racing, you can't hear or concentrate because of the large mob making so much noise around you ... do you think it's possible you could pull the wrong thing off your belt (a belt which has at least 30 different things on it?)

yup


I guess the "whoops, my bad" defence is perfectly fine now in cases like "this"

Originally posted by Kryties
Suspect? That man was a bystander that just happened to stand in the way of the camera. In no way does it appear that he was also being detained or arrested by BART.

Exhibit A:

A suspect (not the shooting victim) with a grey sweatshirt, blue pants with yellow marks on the left leg, and a yellow circle on the right leg, walks into view, palming an object in his right hand, at 0:12 seconds into the video
(object could possibly be a weapon):


At 0:20 seconds, the suspect then quickly approaches the officers backs, which gets the attention of the female officer:


At 0:28 the suspect is then quickly confronted by the female officer:


At 0:29 the suspect is then quickly confronted by a tall male officer:


At 1:52 minutes, suspect is yet again seen approaching the officers quickly, getting the attention of the officers. Shortly after, a male officer takes out a taser, or possibly a gun, which could have already been out:



At 2:54 minutes, one of the suspects that was seen walking up with the suspect I have circled is body-slammed to the ground and you hear a loud sound because of it.

Shortly after at 2:55, you hear the gun shot from the police officer that fatally wounds the victim.

Then,

At 3:24 minutes into the video, the suspect is then seen quickly entering the view, and it appears the suspect has thrown an object with his right hand(possibly the object he had earlier), directly towards the officers. A loud noise is heard. The male officer that is armed with a weapon then raises his shoulders and turns his back to shield himself from an attack from the suspect:



The suspect assaulted an officer. You better believe he got detained.

..will continue later

[edit on 6-1-2009 by ALLis0NE]