Cop Shoots Apparently Helpless Man In The Back (Update: Officer quits to avoid IA questions)

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
reply to post by Kryties

 

It's people like you that don't have a clue.

Speculation

It's people like you who get in fights in train stations and get detained by police.

Never been in a fight in my life. Never thrown a punch. Again, speculation.

It's people like you who jump to conclusions and think cops are robots and want to take over the world.

Having watched my diabetic father being picked up and thrown to the ground by 2 cops as he was in the middle of a seizure, and then having watched as the cops turned it into my father's fault in a courtroom you can imagine I don't like police too much.

It's people like you who has no clue what it is like to be in that situation.

And you do? Uhuh. Again, speculation.

It's people like you who get shot, and end up on the news.

Considering I spent 90% of my waking hours at a computer either working or relaxing you have again falsely speculated on my life.

You make me sick, you are defending something that you don't even have all the information about. You are debating something that you were not even involved in. You are debating something that has nothing to do with you, and you have absolutely no proof that this guy wasn't resisting arrest, or reaching for his pockets while on the ground.

You are also defending something that you have very little information about. You are also debating something you were not involved in. You are also debating something that has nothing to do with you and you have absolutely no proof that the guy WAS resisting arrest or reaching for something in his pockets.

Don't get on your high horse mate, you are in the same position as me information-wise and therefore have absolutely no right (given what you just said to me) to be commenting on this at all.

Get a clue kid, get a clue.

Nicely worded in order to elicit an angry response from me in order to somehow reinforce what you are saying. Classic underhanded tactics that I would expect from corrupt and greedy people.

reply to post by Ionized

It seems to me that the safety is not the old style button you have to push in on many pistols now a days. I am trying to remember how the safety on his sig works, I seem to recall it has something to do with the trigger. I do agree that the Tasers are too pistol looking though, and when I first saw my friends I though it was some new type of pistol.

reply to post by defcon5

He's not a racist, he didn't say anything bad about bigfoot.
Yes I am serious.

reply to post by Kryties

Originally posted by Kryties
Having watched my diabetic father being picked up and thrown to the ground by 2 cops as he was in the middle of a seizure, and then having watched as the cops turned it into my father's fault in a courtroom you can imagine I don't like police too much.

You are just another die-hard. Just another extremist that is mad at cops, and you just admitted it. You just admitted you have a problem with cops. Your entire motive has just been proven, you are only here because you hate cops....

Nothing you say has any merit now, because we now know your only reason for being here.

For the record, I am not debating anything, YOU ARE. I just dropped by to study the video, tell you my opinion ( i saw a weapon), and then tell you what I think.

I am not here defending the cops, nor am I defending the suspect. YOU ARE.

Go to bed kid.

I'm gonna go get some friends to put some stars on my posts now! -sarcasm-

[edit on 6-1-2009 by ALLis0NE]

Lets examine some of the pistol-type less-than-lethal weapons made by TASER Int'l.







Most agencies (my stepbrother's included) have moved to the first type due to the differences in the configuration of the taser in order to avoid this very issue, as well as the fact that the first variety has six shock cartridges. Additionally, these listed are civilian tasers. Note the lack of sights on the first model, while the second has very rudimentary rear sights only.

The *only* way I think this BART cop has any legal defense is if his duty weapon is a 1st generation Glock, which has a very similar grip configuration, seen here.


As you can see, the 1st gen grip is very similar to the 2nd TASER pic shown above. The 2nd gen Glock grip has checkering, while the 3rd gen Glock has checkering *and* finger grooves.

[edit on 6-1-2009 by netwarrior]

[edit on 6-1-2009 by netwarrior]

reply to post by netwarrior


Do the tazer pistols have safeties? I think the safety issue has to be resolved.

edit: OK, seriously, those look nothing like a gun, and are obviously bulkier. One would have to be seriously not paying attention to think they pulled out the tazer instead of the gun. Especially someone TRAINED in these things.

[edit on 6-1-2009 by Ionized]

reply to post by ALLis0NE


Fine, you got me, I hate most police (with the exception of a few decent ones I know).

Excuse me for thinking of the terrible crime that has just happened against that poor man.
Excuse me for thinking that this cop may very well end up back on the streets 'accidentally' shooting more people he has arrested and has face down with 3 cops on him.
Excuse me for having seen, first hand, how police can lie through their rotten teeth and band together to get a fellow officer off a serious charge when rightfully he should be tried for murder (or in my fathers case wrongful arrest and assault).

You, sir, are the epitomy of what is wrong with the legal and law systems worldwide. Am I right in thinking you also endorse torture?

Originally posted by ALLis0NE


Go to bed kid.

Your continual assertion that I am a 'kid' is ridiculous. What purpose does it serve other than to give you a kick and make yourself feel a little better that you insulted someone? How goddam childish of you.


[edit on 6/1/2009 by Kryties]

Originally posted by Ionized
reply to post by netwarrior

 

We don't have permission to view those images on server.

Do the tazer pistols have safeties? I think the safety issue has to be resolved.

Yeah my fault. I'm a FFL and I forgot that distributor site doesn't allow direct images. Links fixed; they go to the TASER Int'l site now.

DOH!

reply to post by netwarrior


And if the cops gun is a Glock, that would mean the saftey is on the slide, and that style saftey is known to get bumped on and off when drawing your gun from a holster.

However, I think what happened in the video was simliar to what happened when this DEA Agent shot himself, with a Glock.


[edit on 6-1-2009 by ALLis0NE]

[quote=Allis0ne]*snip*

Glocks have no slide-mounted safeties. Glocks have trigger safeties. The only thing resembling a safety on a Glock slide is the selector lever on a Glock 18, which is the 9mm Glock machine pistol.

The reason why that DEA agent shot himself is not a mechanical flaw with a pistol. He shot himself because he was a moron that brought a loaded weapon into a class full of children without the proper training.

[edit on 6-1-2009 by netwarrior]

I give up trying to operate the reply to code lol.

[edit on 6-1-2009 by netwarrior]

reply to post by Ionized


You have to think about how fast that happened, with people moving around, people yelling, etc. The main reason I think that he did not intend to use his firearm, is that he would have endangered his fellow officers as well. The person could have pulled one of the other officers in the line of fire, the bullet could have ricocheted off the floor and struck another officer. I highly doubt that he intended to deploy his firearm with other officers leaning over the person he was aiming at. Unless the guy absolutely panicked and freaked out, the only thing that makes since was grabbing the wrong weapon.

Originally posted by Kryties
Excuse me for thinking that this cop may very well end up back on the streets 'accidentally' shooting more people he has arrested and has face down with 3 cops on him.

The guys law enforcement career is most likely over. Its simply a matter of whether or not he is charged with a crime at this point.

reply to post by ALLis0NE


I understand what you are saying mate. Now what makes you think that the negro in prison represents the typical negro? Are the majority of negroes in prison? And again it's not your fault that you make these statements, you can only see from a very limited point of view. Their are many reasons why there is an over-representation of negroes in your prisons. Most are in there on drug related charges. Someone caught with a bag of weed is as much a criminal as say a serial rapist?
You believe all sins are equal then, eh? If you break down statistics the numbers on inmates convicted of murder, paedophilia, armed robbery, rape etc you find that the over-representation exists only for drug related offences. See how much trouble I just went through for you? You see the numbers and you end there. You don't dig further because you lack the motivation to. You see what's happening in your area of a state or country and stop there forgetting that you the world is much larger than that. This is not your fault, it's a by-product of your limitations, you are incapable of being a better person than the one you are now. As you have judged the negroes, I have judged you and found you seriously wanting. Again I don't think you are a racist. I think you want sasquatch to be found alive just like I do.

reply to post by defcon5


I would hope that he is charged with manslaughter at the very least, although a murder charge would be appropriate. Unfortunately, as I said previously, his fellow officers will band around him and he will receive a slap on the wrist - while the boy he shot remains as dead as a doornail and gets no second reprieve.

I have seen this happen all-too-often to expect anything different this time.

reply to post by Kryties



Sadly, you're probably right. I've seen it as well as experienced a milder version myself. They'll probably end up clearing him of all misconduct and put him back to work after his 90 day paid administrative leave.


[edit on 6-1-2009 by netwarrior]

reply to post by netwarrior


You are right I was thinking about a modified Glock.

On that note, here is more info:

From 2000 - 2004 the DOJ (FBI, DEA, ATF, USMS) had 14 unintentional discharges during enforcement ops and 88 during non enforcement activities.

In 2007 the DEA had 10 unintentional discharges w handguns, 8 w Glocks, 1 w a 1911, and 1 w a S&W revolver.

Stuff like FBI agent shooting himself in the hand, a US Marshal hit his own thigh, and a DEA agent hit his own butt. I'm sure everybody has seen the infamous video of the DEA agent shooting himself during the community demo.

Recently a US Marshal fired his Glock while holstering in the federal courthouse in El Paso, injuring himself and a nearby CBP agent.

reply to post by Kryties


I am pretty sure that in order to charge someone with manslaughter you have to show negligence on his part. For example intentionally disabling the safety on the gun, or placing it in the wrong holster. Police are given some leeway in making mistakes, even when they cost human life, as a hazard of the job. I guess we will just have to wait to see if they find any negligence on his part when the investigation is released.

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
reply to post by Elijio

 

Elijio, I am a photo analyist. In his hand is a black object and at the right timeing you can see a "loop" witch actually looks like a "trigger guard". It is also right next to his finger.

Looks like a small 25 cal.


For the record, I believe the shooting was accidental. But, still, the guy shouldn't have been there to begin with. A normal person would have been on the train, minding his own business. Not, getting into fights.


[edit on 6-1-2009 by ALLis0NE]

Your photo analysis is impressive. Now that type of trigger guard is used on rifles and semi automatics. A trigger guard for a small pistol or handgun (going by the size of the thing in the person's hand) does not look like that. Again this is just providing another insight into how you think or rather how you don't. It's not your fault.