Why does any criticism of Israel get the poster labeled an “Anti Semite”

reply to post by DJMessiah

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True.

However, I wrote my response to be just about religion because that seemed the point of the OP to me.



[edit on 1/6/2009 by centurion1211]

Agreed. I find much in the Islam faith to be beautiful just like I do in the christian faith.

I have much respect for those who label themselves agnostic or atheist because they don't want to blindly follow something.

I have somewhat of a friendly conflict with those who worship Jesus as G.d, but ya know, I learn much myself from our opposing views.

What I *don't* have much tolerance for is all this hatred and dogmatism that is being displayed both here and over in the middle east. Not on the side of those I love and not on the side of those who are supposedly against the ones I love; for even in the opposing side, there is hope in the eyes of their children.... that is when I get angry at all who carry this hatred around.

At least I have not been called an anti-Semite for asking the same questions to Pro-Israeli supporters.......

" Why will Israel not let U.N. Peacekeepers in ? "


The request for U.N. troops has been put forward again and again since the 60s. The French declared they would send in as many troops as is needed. Yasser Arafat pleaded to have the troops come in.

Israel does not want an independent 3rd party in the area . Very strange for a country that "claims" it wants peace don’t you think ?

My independent little brain thinks someone is lying .

Unfortunatelly most people here aren't denying ignorance. In my opinion the majority of people posting here on ATS are not enlightened nor awakened (sorry for those, who really are). Fear roams thease boards hence the attacks, anti-semitic and rasist labels.

I would like the war to be outlawed so it can be prosecuted. Unfortunatelly that won't happen because we would need someone to enforce such a practice.

And people tend to feel connected to a region/country/culture/society. It's all they have and they can't perceive world without it. It's a basis for all their perceived reality. Sadly those individuals can't accept the fact that there is no such thing as a society. There are individuals. There are families too. No societies though. Nevertheless it's easy to force people into defending the very idea with their lives.

www.philipweiss.org...


Megaphone - en.wikipedia.org...

QassamCount - apps.facebook.com...


What they don't mention is why those rockets are being fired?

Hint: ( A BRUTAL OCCUPATION? )




[edit on 6-1-2009 by Al-Mahdi]

I think the OP brings up some valid points. However, the anti-Semitic tag is not used for necessarily any/all criticism of Israeli policy. There are people who clearly want to smear Jewish people with everything and anything, but in most intellectual situations I have found legitimate questions regarding Israeli policies often get this label as a reply; it's not at first but when you reach a question that strikes a nerve.

OTOH, I think it's fair that non-Jewish individuals who disagree with Israeli policies should refrain from linking worldwide Jewry with the actions of the Israeli Parliament. This actually does happen from time to time and encourages this strong association between Israel and Judaism.

[edit on 6/1/2009 by ExamineAllViews]

It's because they experienced the Holocaust. That gives them the right to be douchebags.

Also don't you know? They are the chosen. The chosen do not need to bend over backwards to accomodate any lesser, lower life forms.

They're entitled to rule the world.

Jews FTW!

[edit on 6-1-2009 by SkepticalSpectacle]

And this post ^^^ is a perfect example of how some people get the anti-Semite label. It is not a condemnation of what a nation is doing. Rather, it is a condemnation of a people and a religion. It is not about Israel and palestine, it is an attempt deny history in a very bigoted manner.

Just the same as when one doesn't differentiate between radical muslims and all muslims.

Although I not often agree with you, you are right, which is why I always refer to the Israeli government, regime or policies.

Calling people who oppose Israel's policies, anti-Semite or playing the Holocaust card is a rather ignorant and poor defense, in my opinion.

That`s how Jews have been doing it, for the last 70 years.
They if anyone should now what war can bring to people, and not do to others what`s was done to them during WW2...hmmmm
All humans are hypocrite`s.

reply to post by Operation AJAX

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It's an easy response to make.

It's much easier for them to put their fingers in their ears and scream anti-Semite when someone questions their actions, than to actually question the actions of their government.

I think these are generally weak people who know that what is happening is entirely wrong, they just cannot bear to face what their nation is doing. They'll refuse to accept any guilt openly, and instead, attack anyone who disagrees with them.

From the start I have tried to keep religion out of this discussion, but the pro-Israel crowd keep dragging us back into this with their claims of anti-Semitism.

I maintain that it has no relation to religion for me, it is all about one powerful nation stomping on an already weak and helpless population and killing hundreds of civilians in the process. It's as simple as that.

As an Arab Muslim I have never tried or even thought of participating in any of the threads that have been on the subject ever since the Gaza thing exploded because I knew that I will be thrown by words from some of the people here on ATS and ATS would have had new members signing in to throw at me more new words

Although I have read some posts from deferent members saying bad words about the prophet Mohammed peace be upon him and even my God, even then I preferred to just ignore them because I know that conversation like that will never end and I might get more insults from them and that’s exactly what my God told me to do in the Quran:

[6] [108] And insult not those whom they (disbelievers) worship besides Allâh, lest they insult Allâh wrongfully without knowledge. Thus We have made fair-seeming to each people its own doings; then to their Lord is their return and He shall then inform them of all that they used to do.

That’s why I preferred to read rather than participate because I always knew that there were many opinions in every case and I have no right to change anyone’s opinion cuz I believe that opinions change in time after more digging and searching all over the places, and that’s why I signed in here to read and understand deferent views

Not that I became a member on ATS for these kinds of subjects, not at all, in fact it was for another reason it was all about science and science fiction and conspiracy theories

And for the OP I totally agree with you so S&F

Not only that, but I was just looking at a few other conspiracy sites, and read one post saying that everyone who is not on Israel's side, but protests or speaks out in any way, is on a list and is considered a pro-terrorist supporter.
These guys really don't have the power they think they have. I don't care how many guns they back it up with!!!!!!! They are paid servant/employees of the people who are their collective employer. I am not pro Israel, or rather, I am pro women and children, and all good men, of all nationalities including Israel, including Palestine, including Africans, including Asian, including Russians, the West, in fact in every corner of the world. I am not pro-leaders of any country, or nation. And they don't empower me. Whats happening in Gaza is genocide!!!! And no, that doesn't mean I like fanatical violent muslim leaders either. In fact, I question who set up most of the fascist, repressive regimes during the 20th century, and who is running this show, who is behind the terrorists, fanning the traumas and pain of the average person? Who, primarily through Saudi Arabia, halted the middle east's modernization, and sent their women back to the dark ages via Sharia Law? Was it the cartel? Was it the Rothschild's, DuPont's and Rockefellers of the world? I
wonder.

[edit on 6-1-2009 by mystiq]

[edit on 6-1-2009 by mystiq]

There has been plenty of heated debate , a lot of it emotionally driven .
Everyone has encountered opposing opinions which make their blood boil , of that i`m certain , but i`d take that over an apathetic response any day.

There is no doubting that the day to day lives of ALL the peoples of the affected region have become desensitized to the ratcheting upwards of violence.

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There are SOME parallels which can be drawn with N. Ireland.

Sein Fein / I.R.A , were also a political and paramilitary force comprising of people FROM the community .
Often people who voted for the group in elections did so simply on social/local issues i.e housing / education etc. etc.
I would imagine their are parallels with some of Hamas` voters .

Often the "lofty" notions of statehood make way for more pressing immediate concerns.

We, the observers .....must guard against the rush to stereotype or oversimplify .
And our expressions of "exasperation" fade when compared to those who suffer the physical or psychological terrorism which both sides show an unending propensity to commit and endure.

It is wise to learn from your mistakes.
It is even wiser to learn from the mistakes of others.

The world anti-Semite has been weaponised in the same way that the word 'queer' has been pacified.

The tag of anti-Semite can actually end careers, cause individuals to be isolated and on some rare occassions, cause the person to be attacked by extremists like the JDL.

So why does this word have such potency? It is a culturally loaded word that suggests a labelled person condones the Holocaust and the evil intention to exterminate people of the Jewish faith. This is a concept more powerful than a that of a situation a were white person discriminates against a black or vise verse. There is political and social clout behind it over and above anti-discrimination laws.

Furthermore, a person labelled with the term anti-Semite will have their name listed by activists on websites, photos circulated over private forums and private details swapped.

In society, our schools and youth centres are provided with privately and charitably funded courses covering the Holocaust, the Jewish historical narative and racism towards the Jewish religion. While this could be incorporated in anti-racism and anti-discrimination classes, it is kept separate to enhance the purity of the messege and inculcate key words like anti-semite, Jew-hater, nazi and Holocaust to trigger a response unique to this form of bigotry.

Any discourse of the Palestinian struggle will solicit the allegation of being an anti-Semite or a Jew hater. Debate by politicians in our governments of Israeli matters is conducted carefully to avoid unnecessary allegations of anti-Semitisms.

Most uniquely, the term anti-Semite does not offer protection to the Semitic Arabs and the Palestinian people. The term anti-Semite is strictly reserved for people of the Jewish faith including non-Semitic Falashe Jews, Chinese Jews, West African Jews and various Eastern European Jews.

Not sure I'd equate 'anti-Semite' with 'queer'.

Anyway, you are correct in a way, the word has been 'weaponized'. Which is why anyone attempting to deflect a thread by saying "palestinians are Semites, too", is just playing with semantics since EVERYONE knows that the term is commonly used to label bigoted people who simply just hate Jews.

It's just a transparent trick to reduce open criticism. There will be anti-semites who criticise Israel, that much is obvious.

But criticising the actions of the the Israeli state per se is as racist as criticising that of the state of Zimbabwe. If I think Zimbabwe is a digusting regime and openly criticse them, does that make me a racist?

Don't think so. The problem is that there is only one true jewish state, thus it's an easy trick to play. Consider it a category error, as the criticism for many is the actions of the state, rather than a 'race'.



[edit on 6-1-2009 by melatonin]

Ahh yes, the anti-Semite argument.

It is true that throughout history the Jewish people, and Hebrews in particular(Not exactly the same thing) have been the victims of some of the most heinous crimes in history. That said, if I were robbed and my girlfriend raped, it would not be justified for me to blow up half my town looking to bring retribution to the doorstep of those who have trespassed against me. Israel's "Never again" policy has become, in recent years, an "ends justify the means" policy, which throughout history has proven to be the doorbell to the house of tyranny.

It would be prudent of us to THINK things through before speaking on these matters. Meaning, of course, that we should not only take current facts into consideration, but the facts of history. Everything else clouds the truth, and dooms everyone, not just one nation over others, to trip over the same bloody stone over and over again.

History repeats itself, not because that is the nature of things, but because we forget all too quickly.