We count on our countries doing right so much that we are blind to the faults of ourselves sometimes. There was a time not to long ago when if you raised a voice of reason you were labeled a liberal.

True Confessions

Originally posted by Operation AJAX
Why do many of you feel the need to lable Israelis detractors in such a manner?

Based on my own observations, I think the most common reason for resorting to ad hominem attacks is a secret fear of being wrong.

When unable to confront the strength of an argument, it's simply easier to attack the person making it.

Thus whenever I see the tactic being used, I see a subconscious admission of ignorance -- and sometimes guilt.

If more people knew how transparent such behavior actually is, I suspect we would see much less of it.




[edit on 1/5/2009 by Majic]

Some people fear and hate anything Israel does because they are Jews:
Some people fear and hate the new president elect because he is Black:

Here is where the problem lies;
there is no way of differentiating, at face value whether someone opposes either due to a legitimate concern or racial, religious bias. Hence, everyone who opposes either is suspected of bigotry by the other party. There are more bigots out there than most of us realize, and I suspect many of them do not even realize it themselves. .

That being said, I have serious concerns about the direction of the current Israeli government (and of the Palestinian one), and believe that neither is looking out for the best interests of anyone else but themselves.

If you get in the way of either government, you are bound to get run over, so blindly support them at your peril!

[edit on 1/5/2009 by clay2 baraka]

I'm mostly disgusted by the use of anti-semitism on this board. What I do want to know is, why the special word? It suggests that it is somehow worse to not like or agree with a Jew as opposed to someone of another color or creed. So much so that it deserves it's own term.

It kind of screams of elitism and and the same time naivety. Jews aren't the only race that is considered semitic but they carry on as though they are. Technically, Israel is bombing Arabs and Arabs are semitic so Israel can be considered anti-semitic too. It's laughable!


IMHO, It's just a lame race card people throw on the table when they have nothing intelligent to add.

IRM

Originally posted by clay2 baraka
there is no way of differentiating, at face value whether someone opposes either due to a legitimate concern or racial, religious bias.

the strength of an argument is exactly the same weather the poster is a sheet wearing, cross burning, jew hating redneck or a mother teressa worshiping human rights worker.

the bias of a poster is immaterial to their argument, there is no need to determine what it might be.

Divide and conquer...

They, being the governments, attack their own and blame it on another. Disinfo flies on both sides and you have infighting and name calling. Then you have some on the board whose job it is to stir up the Anti this and Anti that sentiments. This is all part of the pattern that has been going on for years, it's just getting more "in your face" lately.

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I agree with previous posters that the ad hominem attacks are an admission of ignorance, of fear of being incorrect. It's also an attempt to embarrass the dissent, being accused of being anti-Semitic is something deeply hurtful, and so people will do almost anything in order to avoid it, including backing down.

great post - I have been on a big rant about this here on the boards and even yakked my poor kid's ear off (she mentioned the news of Israel and Gaza in general conversation) Poor kid...I think I ranted a good 15 minutes about it.

Tossing around anti-whatever insults and degrading perfectly good posts and discussions simply indicates a lack of education, and a lack of objectiveness on behalf of the slinger.

For ATS to actually go so far as to U2 everyone because those who are overly pious cannot separate religion from politics and policies really surprised me.I expect all of us to get the usual reminders about decorum...but to actually remind us not to be racist or bigoted? Being Anti-Israeli is NOT the same as being antisemitic - and I really , REALLY get tired of everyone pussy footing around their valid opinions and statements for fear of being labeled antisemitic or anti muslim or anti islamic etc etc.

That ATS felt a need to placate members who obviously cannot seperate policy and politics from religious values, speaks volumes about how deeply melded politics and religion have become.

Toss religion into a decent thread and watch it degrade into neener neeners, name calling and some of the wildest assortment of rhetoric, flaming, and off topic BS.

Religion isn't the problem as much as those who use it to gain control over another.

So...if i continued to post anti israeli information and opinions - with NO religious condemnation in the OP and it upsets someone...what happens? Seriously...ATS took the time to send out a mass U2 about it and I am asking...if my posts or another's OP is clearly Anti Israeli yet contains no religious damnation or condemnation - but still infuriates or upsets someone who claims it's antisemitic....whatchagonnado??? make us stop posting things that may be construed or implied to be racist/bigoted?

If I am taking the time to post valid information and it happens to be Anti Israeli I'm NOT going to stop and wonder if it's gonna upset someone of the Jewish faith...especially if my OP is NOT about religion anyway! Most of the Israeli threads are NOT about religion...so how did they become antisemitic???

I won't change my views on Israel and it's policies clearly and even the threat of being labeled antisemitic won't phase me or dissuade me from posting...so why the big hubbub bub?

I just shake my head. People need to stop leaning so heavily on their "crutches" and start relying on actual facts figures and data -

And to those screaming antisemitism - if it REALLY was antisemitic it would be removed yes?

rant done. I disagree with the hand holding of religiously sensitive people who need to be coddled. not everything revolves around the religions of the world.

Maybe because some people refuse to see the grey area. Your either right or wrong. Which we all know the difference. We no you can question people, and ideals without being against them.

It would depend on the case. Some posting may well be rabid anti-Semites. Who knows? I think the radicals on both sides hold equal blame and have for centuries.

Many of us I think see that there are problems on both sides. When I get suspicious of the posters intent is when they totally ignore the atrocities on one side while rabidly attacking the other side for the least little infraction. It also makes me ponder their true intent when they use only heavily biased sources and post thread after thread on the same topic(s).

One of the common arguments by the real Bigots among us are that the sensible, non-haters among us are uninformed or illiterate. Often I think they may be unaware that their distaste for the activities of radicals has blossomed into a full blown hatred of an ethnic group or religion. They have in fact become that which they profess to hate.

One thing that is for sure is that no matter what topic you post on ATS you will find somebody that hates you for your beliefs one way or the other. To be honest here, it is the reason ATS has so many visitors. If everyone here sat around singing Kumbaya and agreeing with one another, the board would die an early death.

Perhaps when people post criticism and they are not posting out of hatred of an ethnic group or religion, they should in all fairness point out the problems on all sides of the issues. When a person constantly posts negatives about only one side where more than one culprit is involved, it is hard to assume they are fair minded.

To answer the question, for the same reason why critisism of Obama gets you labeled a racist.

I don't make the rules, that's just the way it is.
We don't know what's really going on and you probably don't feel it's self defense, BUT at least the Israelis are giving warnings before retaliating.

Besides, if a certain group of people raise their kids to be martyrs by blowing themselves up and taking innocent people with them, why not accommodate them early on before they get a chance to fulfill their wishes?

Geez, if they don't care about their kids, why should we?

Some individuals aren't the most logical creatures. It kinda reminds me of people thinking "Oh that country is Anti American? They are all terrorists then!"

I'm Anti Israel, does that mean I want all the Jews there dead? No.

Like I said, some folks aren't the brightest.

AGREED.



People need to leave out the "labels" that we have all been raised upon. In my opinion this is all racism. After all, we all are people yeh?


I'm not on a side for the war and none of you should be either.



I belong to my own side.
The side of Peace and Prosperity

You see, I like Israelis, but I don't like Israel. (I hate to be the one to say something that way)

I don't like the Israel because it's backed by the U.S. for bad reasons.



And to the guy above me,

since when did America not take a side in a war?

[edit on 1/5/2009 by die_another_day]