My belief is that math defines certain aspects of our perception. It gives us a canvas in which to base our way of understanding so to speak.

I thought about things like this alot when I was younger (13-14), and I came up with this conclusion; We are experiencing a harmonious nature of free will vs fate. The only thing that seperates the two is perception...or perhaps how one grasps the concept of life.

In a phrase, "Is the cup half empty or half full?" Either choice is neither wrong nor right. It is all based on perception...there are a vague amount of absolute truths...and the ones we know we only accept because they have not been defied or proven otherwise yet.

Can one stop life? Can one prevent death? Surely any claims only exhibit a certain level of ignorance. We did not start life, and surely we cannot finish it. Yet we experience it. That alone should help us understand that there is certainly some range of freewill, but that it is governed by some alterior force...perhaps the force in mind is fate or destiny.

I wonder...

Originally posted by rekar
Math is not our collective knowledge of anything, its a tool to help understand unknowns. 1+1 is a concept, based on this system of math. Math can be used for many things, but like I said, it is NOT required for anything but we use it.

Maybe I dont understand what you are trying to say because Im in a higher level of consciousness, and lack the ability to think so low, I dont know, and maybe you over use and dont understand math at face value. Math is nothing more than what you get from it at face value, that determines your whole view on math.

rekar

Take a bit of paper.. draw a line and draw a circule next to it...

One is maths the other is not.. the NOT is maths ying get it? has an end and a start "the line" maths on the other hand is the loop and the odd numbers we see is the LINE..

We see both but we dont understand the line so well even tho they are both in maths..

PI is the best way to look at this I just gave u pi in 2 ways.. U just drew pi

Or do you want me to put it in mathamatics?

22/7 = ? a very long line... "line" not maths / we dont understand this
1+1=2 very short line.... "Circule" is maths / we use this to understand the other "or try".. but it wont it just POINTS to the other..

hope that helps

Originally posted by TheoryofLogic
My belief is that math defines certain aspects of our perception. It gives us a canvas in which to base our way of understanding so to speak.

I thought about things like this alot when I was younger (13-14), and I came up with this conclusion; We are experiencing a harmonious nature of free will vs fate. The only thing that seperates the two is perception...or perhaps how one grasps the concept of life.

In a phrase, "Is the cup half empty or half full?" Either choice is neither wrong nor right. It is all based on perception...there are a vague amount of absolute truths...and the ones we know we only accept because they have not been defied or proven otherwise yet.

Can one stop life? Can one prevent death? Surely any claims only exhibit a certain level of ignorance. We did not start life, and surely we cannot finish it. Yet we experience it. That alone should help us understand that there is certainly some range of freewill, but that it is governed by some alterior force...perhaps the force in mind is fate or destiny.

I wonder...

In a phrase, "Is the cup half empty or half full?"

yes i love this quote

First we need a cup "universe" is it half full? what is full " a limit "

what is emtpy? "a limit"

a limit is just a paramater.. you can infact code this into a computer program.. and we do.. do you know what that is called? Fractals!!

hehe

we use this to make fractals based on paramaters..

We can make loops and now see them and make beautifull pattens..

There is no chaos really its just we are so small we dont see what is above us or maths..

I Know for a fact there is something other than maths.. how i know this is becouse maths LOOPS and it shows me infinty

Infinity is not infinte its just BIG very very BIG.. ask an ant to walk around the planet or walk to mars.. you kinda get the idea

The poor little ant says "are you kidding me?"... thats what humans do who cant grasp maths for what it really is..

its telling you me and everyone we are using a flawed tool to understand the big question and we will never get there using maths.. it will only point to the yang "not the loop"..

How can i understand what is random? I dont i use maths ! lol its so freaky... I just add me into the maths and BINGO there is the code..

the universe is alive and so are we becouse it all loops..

Ok, so your saying now that a line is not math at all? Doesnt math, in your terms, tell you how long you want it to be, in any given measure? doesnt a line make up the structure of a circle?

Thank you for the comments, and Like a lot of the viewpoints that have been expressed so far. The game, the rivers, all are a different ideas brought about to explain the different ideas the buddies shared here. The rivers are choices leading to your ultimate destiny. The game can show different points, but you end up in the same place in the end.

rekar

Originally posted by rekar
Ok, so your saying now that a line is not math at all? Doesnt math, in your terms, tell you how long you want it to be, in any given measure? doesnt a line make up the structure of a circle?

Thank you for the comments, and Like a lot of the viewpoints that have been expressed so far. The game, the rivers, all are a different ideas brought about to explain the different ideas the buddies shared here. The rivers are choices leading to your ultimate destiny. The game can show different points, but you end up in the same place in the end.

rekar

the line is what we dont understand but is real...

maths tells me there is a line "not how long" its nots maths job to do that.. it just tells me there is "nothing els".. so its hard for me to use any maths after that to calculate it.. its like trying to smash a window with a spunge..

aint gunna happen

so i kinda leave maths alone in alot of ways when i question life.. Not knowing the answer sometimes is the answer.. simple really

Your fate is the past, Your destiny is the future, free will is the force which allows you to interact with the now and your fate in order to steer your destiny.

When I try to understand life and why it is we are here, I dont try to use math, well, I dont use it at all. It can be difficult to question how something works without a mathematical base around it, but once you get the hang of it, you dont need math to explain it for you.

I look at life this way, you are stuck in a loop of repeating lives. You go through it plenty of times trying to figure out the one key, the end command for the loop to get to your Destiny, the one you chose for yourself. The choices you make to end the loop effect the outcome at every corner you turn, and one wrong move can mean a restart. You are going through life to evolve your consciousness to a level high enough to ascend to another dimension(At least in my book)

Im going to have to say excluding math from this subject is a possible solution at the end, and we could still get plenty of different options without analyzing to deep into this one.

rekar

It is because we are human that we created math. With math came science and language. Im pretty sure early forms of math were never intended to do what we are doing with the advanced stuff we are doing now, so really, math itself is outdated like the rest of the things we are using. Just because something works doesnt mean you have to keep using it over and over. You need to eventually step up and make something new and more resourceful. Use the knowledge you have as a collective race and make something to better the entire Human race, not just this country here, and this one over there.

Human kind and beings will never evolve past out current state if we cannot help ourselves and fix whats wrong with the world.

The choices the Governments of the world are making are wrong, they see to better their society before the needs of another country, or the needs of the human race. I have simple solutions to problems that are currently at hand in the world, and with the help of everyone, they could be fixed in a year or less.

Okay, now that got off subject just a bit.... but you get the idea behind it hopefully

rekar

Originally posted by rekar
It is because we are human that we created math. With math came science and language. Im pretty sure early forms of math were never intended to do what we are doing with the advanced stuff we are doing now, so really, math itself is outdated like the rest of the things we are using. Just because something works doesnt mean you have to keep using it over and over. You need to eventually step up and make something new and more resourceful. Use the knowledge you have as a collective race and make something to better the entire Human race, not just this country here, and this one over there.

Human kind and beings will never evolve past out current state if we cannot help ourselves and fix whats wrong with the world.

The choices the Governments of the world are making are wrong, they see to better their society before the needs of another country, or the needs of the human race. I have simple solutions to problems that are currently at hand in the world, and with the help of everyone, they could be fixed in a year or less.

Okay, now that got off subject just a bit.... but you get the idea behind it hopefully

rekar

life is like being on a raft in a desert.. no meaning.. what so ever..

im crazy foget what i said i give up

I give up on life i give up on humanity.. and the pointlessness of it

enjoy ur day

Originally posted by rekar
What theories can you provide to contradict these ones provided or support them?
Rekar

My own viewpoint is that we are all the beginning and the end.

Infinity in other words.

Imagine every single possible action and outcome had been performed by the "human race".
What would you have at the end if one person was experiencing this simultaneously, with the body of a human being each time to give the illusion of "time" and the individual experience?

Combine them all and what do you have?

In terms of free will yes you do have that because that is your purpose in terms of why you are here. You are here to do "your" thing. Everyone has a unique experience to prepare you for the destiny.

Its a double edged sword that is the same. Alpha and Omega, what goes around comes around and so on.

Make sense?



[edit on 6-1-2009 by XXXN3O]

To the op I don't have time to read all the responses but I would love to and later pry will there is another way to look at it.

This is because of direct experiences I have had with death and being sent back. Because of my death and being told I had to come back because I wasn't finished I pondered the free will question for a long time after confirming it wasn't just neurons firing in my head randomly at the time of death.

To confirm it I was told of events that would take place throughout my life and thus far have come true (actually was shown not told per say) before I was "sent back" well to conclude I wasn't going nuts I told family members if this happens call me right away I just need to know if I'm right or not.

Of course they looked at me like I was crazy but then they called me 2 years later freaking out that what I told them came true and thought I was psychic which I'm not. So I knew I wasn't nuts or I think not anyway.

I was sent for one specific purpose after that purpose is fulfilled I'm done and going back I was told.

Here's where the part of free will comes into play. There is one event that will take place and in order to finish what I was sent to do I will have the option of making 2 choices. 1 will complete the task as I was instructed to finish the other will end the task uncompleted I guess you could call it a mission failure. There is where I have the choice.

Meanwhile right now you could say I'm circling the airport and the conditions haven't been met for me to land so I have the freedom of choice to do what I want and when until the conditions present themselves to be a go for landing. After that even I also have the freedom of choice until my death but then the question ponders when is death and my task truly finished.

If your interested in the actual task U2U me and I'll tell you but for the sake of this freedom is given however certain tasks must be met. Think of it like this in order to live you have to eat and drink but between those times you can do as you please.

This was about the best I could come up with after pondering for several years what the heck was going on. I should also mentioned after each event my family confirms I tell them the next event to make sure it occurs and in the end is just not astronomical coincidence that I've been correct every time. Also to tell myself no I'm not going nuts.