WORLD: Fanatical Muslims vs. The Free World

reply to post by ExamineAllViews

You actually have not answered most of my questions.

And you've answered any of mine?

Why was a block aid enforced by Israel?

Because Israel are more terrorist and extreme than the label they've slapped their neighbors with, genocide is being committed over there. Remember me saying that?

Why were Palestinians "suddenly" searched for every time they went back and forth from the area?

Nothing sudden or new, the Palestinians have always been violated, killed and harassed over there for decades long anyways. It is an occupation. Did you know that there was this peaceful family guy who has this house on a hill, and from the bottom of the hill you can see this Israeli soldier aiming a sniper rifle at him and waving hi in a cynical way?... How you would you feel if someone was doing that to you? .. I suppose another question you'll fail to ponder and subsequently answer.

Who was the first party to respond violently in the 2nd Intifada?

I get the point of this question. In the end, you want to justify what Israel are doing because Hamas use suicide bombers. I'm not defending Hamas because I don't like them a whole lot either. However these actions of suicide and killing innocents on the Israeli side is the only response they can cook up(because they're so weak militarily) that is effective enough to do adequate damage to Israel. The suicide bombings are because they don't want any Jews or other people in the world to travel to Israel and feel safe. So it severely affects tourism, economy and social stability is terms of security and feeling safe.

Again, I'm not defending them.. I'm only trying to explain why they do suicides bombings instead of fire phosphorous trailed missiles. Because they DON'T have any of these modern and sophisticated weapons(that the Israelis do). They have been driven to the point of taking their own life to kill a few Israelis. I ask you.. How can anyone be driven to this point? .. I'm sure another question you'll gladly avoid.

Why do HAMAS militants choose to attack Israelis when they are amongst their own civilians? Is this for the "cause", or so they can "get the attention they need"?

I've already answered this question. And BTW, Hamas have killed Israeli combatants too, not just civilians as you try to make THEM out to be the terrorists. Funny how the term "terrorism" was not existent before 9/11.

"cause" you say? .. ever heard of the term "the greater good" and who came up with that?

Why does HAMAS put so much effort into creating weapons and antagonising Israel? It seems they only know how to communicate through violence.

What efforts? .. what weapons? .. you talking about those weak ineffective homegrown qassam rockets? .. Again, Israel are the ones with all the might and power and they are the ones killing and slaughtering more innocent civilians then you could imagine. They're still killing infants, children, women and innocent men too over there in Gaza as we speak.

Now, I've answered all your questions.. care to answer any of mine.. like do you classify mosques, hospitals, schools, a university, and houses as "militant targets" or "terrorist targets" .. funny how the Israelis are the ones to create this term called "terrorists" when they are the worlds biggest terrorists.

Majorion, I meant taking responsibly in the sense of acknowledging these things have happened and caused problems.

What is it exactly you want me to acknowledge? .. That Hamas use suicide bombers because it's the only way they can possibly fight back? .. again, I'm not defending Hamas, but I do understand them. If you're gonna classify them as terrorists, then please do the same for Israel.

I'm not blaming my problem on another ethnicity as you suggested in an earlier post. The Israelis are semites, how can I be anti-semite when I am a semite? .. Another term that has come out of their own mossad dictionary.

Zionism is real. So before you argue that I'm wrong or blaming it on another ethnicity, perhaps you should take a look at this video of a prominent U.S politician admitting to be a zionist even though he's not jewish.



And I'll quote Biden here: "I am a zionist, you don't have to be a jew to be a zionist" ..

Ask yourself.. why would he say this? .. Because Israel control the U.S from the inside out... notice at the back of Joe Biden it says "Biden for President" ... It's always a good political move to side yourself with the zionists

[edit on 14/1/09 by Majorion]

[edit on 14/1/09 by Majorion]

Originally posted by Gools
What a load of "you're with us or against us" Bovine Feces!!!

This thread is utter crap.

I'm disappointed in a fellow staffer "taking sides" like this.

Please review this link:

Moderators are people too (and have opinions)

1) I was actually in the Middle East in the year 2000. I was in Israel and I went sightseeing to various places. I went INSIDE an Arab market and ate at restaurants which were run by Palestinians. The feeling was peaceful and encouraging. There was NO block aid, mandatory searches or IDF soldiers abusing any people - let alone any Palestinians.

I pretty much got to see most of the land, and from what I could feel there was a relatively peaceful relation between Israelis and non-Israelis. In fact I saw people of many different religions praying/admiring at the Western Wall. From memory this was the only location that had ANY form of security. I also went in malls, parks, etc.

2) That was a nice attempt by you to label me as an "anti-Semite tagger." I did not call you that or imply that at all. I am familiar with the meaning of the word and know how to use it.

3) Your criticisms against Israel may be well founded, but you are obviously unwilling to admit that non-Israelis in the area have contributed greatly to the current dire situation.

4) I don't know why you have brought forth the discussion of "Zionism"? You are linking Israel and Zionism together as if these words are synonyms - they are not. Aren't you doing here exactly what you ACCUSED me of doing when I brought up the 2nd Intifada?

I really don't have the patience to try help you see that you are observing this whole issue from an anti-Israel angle. If you truly believe that it is Israel and USA that has provoked every act of terror on part of Palestinians then you not being realistic or fair. Unfortunately, militant Palestinians have not learned that violence WONT BRING CHANGE.

[edit on 22/1/2009 by ExamineAllViews]

One more thing, why don't you go locate a dictionary that was printed BEFORE September 11 2001. I think you will find that the definitions given for "terrorist" in these dictionaries are very similar in meaning to dictionaries printed after that date.

reply to post by ExamineAllViews

I was actually in the Middle East in the year 2000

Considering how long you took to reply to my latest inquiry, and that you have yet to answer ANY of my valid questions, forgive me if I don't take your word for it. Funny how you just mentioned that now.

There was NO block aid, mandatory searches or IDF soldiers abusing any people - let alone any Palestinians

Praise be to Israel for NO block aids, how merciful of them.

Your criticisms against Israel may be well founded, but you are obviously unwilling to admit that non-Israelis in the area have contributed greatly to the current dire situation.

Actually I've already told you that I also dislike Hamas. But since Israel are the ones in power and with all the superiority, they are the ones first and foremost who must be held accountable for these constant aggressive and illegal actions. 'White phospherous' sounds non-terrorist to you?

I don't know why you have brought forth the discussion of "Zionism"? You are linking Israel and Zionism together as if these words are synonyms - they are not. Aren't you doing here exactly what you ACCUSED me of doing when I brought up the 2nd Intifada?

Actually I just proved that Zionism is real and completely relevant and synonymous to the discussion at hand. Since Israel get all their weapons from the U.S ... why do you think that the U.S fund them? .. I don't see any Palestinians being funded with money or weapons from the U.S.

I really don't have the patience to try help you see that you are observing this whole issue from an anti-Israel angle

Patience is not the only virtue you lack. I'm not anti-Israeli as you suggest, I actually have a bunch of jewish friends in the states, but even most of them admit the Israeli state's hostility and illegal actions. I'm only anti-war, and in this case.. and I'm gonna say this for the last time.. Israel are the superior ones who must be held accountable first. So don't try slapping that anti-semite tag on me in one form or the other.

One more thing, why don't you go locate a dictionary that was printed BEFORE September 11 2001. I think you will find that the definitions given for "terrorist" in these dictionaries are very similar in meaning to dictionaries printed after that date.

Yes, but the important thing here.. is that the term "terrorism" was near non existent in "use" before 9/11. Instead of always blaming this on Arabs, perhaps you should research the case more carefully to find out who really were the ones dancing and celebrating the event while it happened in New York.

Ever heard of Vehrner Von Bron?(I think that's the spelling anyway) .. he talked about the stages of false world threats promoted by governments(specifically U.S). First it was the Russians who were the big enemy, then the age of mythical terrorists(now), then asteroids and comets will threaten the Earth, and then a false flag alien invasion. Till now, he's been completely accurate.


I fail to see why I keep answering YOUR questions, when you still have yet to answer any of mine. All of you pro-Israel guys here at ATS are like that. You change the subject, throw some bait in the form of anti -semite and ignore all valid questions and the rising body count in Gaza when you aren't even a semite yourself. It seems that you've picked your side, well with respect..I've picked mine too. It's not that I'm attacking Israel.. I'm only defending the one's who are 'by far' suffering.

Check out this video, David Duke is one of the few brave souls out there that actually took on Zionism at the core; you could learn a thing or two from this man.



And here's a bit of eye candy for you;



Quote from the new testament;

8:10 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers, in the day when I took them by the hand out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. (Hebrews 8:10)



[edit on 22/1/09 by Majorion]

That's the thing, isn't it? One has to pick a side.

In any endeavor of supporting one group or another, I tend to look at who is actually accomplishing things with what they have.

I tend to look, and if one side is being given funding, and are not making any progress in their infrastructure to improve their quality of life, then I quickly assume that they are non-productive, and likely spending the funds on things they shouldn't.

The US has given economic aid to the Palestinians about $85,000,000 a year since 1993, President Bush requested $200,000,000 in 2005, and $150,000,000 in 2006, and hundreds of millions of additional dollars over the past several years.

Yet they bitch because they have no water. They are starving. The Israelis pump electricity to the Gazans, and for all this, the only thing that they have to show for the effort, is thousands of rockets, hundreds of thousands of yahoos with AK-47's running around, apparently without having to work for a living.

I know a group of losers when I see them.

Need glasses?

reply to post by dooper

I tend to look, and if one side is being given funding, and are not making any progress in their infrastructure to improve their quality of life, then I quickly assume that they are non-productive, and likely spending the funds on things they shouldn't.

Progress in their infrastructure? .. you mean like the attempt at REbuilding their own homes after Israel destroys them?

The US has given economic aid to the Palestinians about $85,000,000 a year since 1993, President Bush requested $200,000,000 in 2005, and $150,000,000 in 2006, and hundreds of millions of additional dollars over the past several years.

Please provide some supporting data on this, because dooper; the data I've seen is quite the opposite. Billions of U.S dollars get spent on Israel each year, and the supply of weaponry continues.

Yet they bitch because they have no water. They are starving.

I think your incompassionate soulless self is quite revealing with the above statement.

The Israelis pump electricity to the Gazans,

Wrong, Israel have done nothing but cut off the power supply to the Palestinians and they also cut them off from their water supply. In addition to the block aids for basic food and medicine.

I know a group of losers when I see them. Need glasses?

Oh so you support Israel simply because they are the winners and the stronger force?

Great post, a star for you...

reply to post by Majorion


Anyone can find the numbers. The amounts in the hundreds of millions of dollars the US has contributed are on record.

Do your own homework. But that would mean you would have to deal with facts. And we know how that works.

As far as my incompassionate existence, I have compassion, but I reserve it for those who actually work to do better. I have no use for self-destructive turds who thrive on making people around them miserable.

Show me a junkie, and I'll not have compassion. Show me the homeless, and I'll show you a lazy bastard.

We are all given choices. Every moment, every day.

You make bad choices, you have bad experiences. You make good choices, you benefit. But if you make bad decisions, don't expect me to cry for you. Won't happen.

The Gazans have consistently made bad choices.

My fault? Nope.

Israel's fault?

Nope.

Gazans fault.

reply to post by dooper

Anyone can find the numbers. The amounts in the hundreds of millions of dollars the US has contributed are on record.

If it's as easy as you claim, then you should easily be able to show these records here. And even if there are a few sympathizers in Washington who've contributed a little behind closed doors, it was only to help relieve the suffering in Gaza and the west bank that the Israeli's have caused.

You can not doubt that far more money is being given to the already wealthy Israelis every year. And you also can not dispute the fact that the U.S supply Israel with modern weapons, Hamas on the other hand have resorted to crude tactics and home made weaponry out of desperation. Yet when Israel bomb the living hell out of Gaza and murder innocent women and children by tenfold compared to 9/11, also using illegal weapons like white phospherous; they are NOT considered terrorists by the jewish controlled media. Yet the Palestinians ARE?!

Do your own homework. But that would mean you would have to deal with facts. And we know how that works

Well I've certainly done my homework on you. And I find you posting in every thread spreading deliberate hate messages(some proven to be completely plagiarized), supporting Israel, and condemning Gazans. And there are a whole lot of others round here contributing to your little operation. Frankly dooper; we both know who you are and what you're attempting to do here. Should I call you agent dooper?

Originally posted by dooper

Show me a junkie, and I'll not have compassion. Show me the homeless, and I'll show you a lazy bastard.

The Gazans have consistently made bad choices.

My fault? Nope.

Israel's fault?

Nope.

Gazans fault.

Dooper, you play too much the tough guy.

What you are talking about is Social Darwinism 101: "Show me a homeless, and I show you a lazy bastard". I hope you know this is completely wrong, or maybe you used as rhetoric. If you think this is true, I will disprove it.

2nd Edit to erase my unnecesary personal attack.


[edit on 23-1-2009 by deccal]

[edit on 23-1-2009 by deccal]

Originally posted by VinceP1974

Originally posted by Cadbury

Originally posted by VinceP1974
You should watch Dispatches: Undercover Mosque.

Or I could actually go to a Mosque with any number of the Muslims I know?

Maybe maybe not. I dont know how open they are with a Kufr in the audience. You do know that in Islam Muslims are not to befriend Non-Muslims,, so if you have Muslim mates, then they're already by definition out of adherance, and that's great.. but dont thinik your friend's attitudes going to make a bit of different to the Radicals. The Radicals have the full Islamic text as their justification. Your friend's actions are not due to anything written in Islamic law, but from ignoring it.

so anyway.. be blind if you want. its your country. well.. it was.

Cadbury, why are you bothering, you could point out all the examples you want, and it will be just turned around the other way?

And VinceP1974 and Skyfloater (and anybody else) there are extremists in in every group. For example, VinceP1974, you could take out every word in your above post relating to Muslims, and substitute equivalent words relating to extremist, yes....Jews. ie:

"Maybe maybe not. I dont know how open they are with a gentile or goy (Kufr) in the audience. You do know that in Orthodox or Lubavitcher Judaism (Islam Muslims) Jews are not to marry/befriend gentile/goys, non-Jewish (Non-Muslims), so if you have Jewish (Muslim) mates, then they're already by definition out of adherance, and that's great.. but dont thinik your friend's attitudes going to make a bit of different to the Radicals. The Radicals have the full Jewish Talmud (Islamic) text as their justification. Your friend's actions are not due to anything written in Talmud (Islamic) law, but from ignoring it."

VinceP, you may not be aware of it, but the Talmud is every bit as racist, evil, and calls for the death and subjugation of all goys/gentiles, which means everyone that could not be considered Jewish. Let's call a spade, a spade.

And anyone on this forum who has is Jewish that has studied the Talmud knows what I'm saying is true. Be honest about it.

I could give you a lot more examples, but do your own research or U2U me and I will give you some words to research. And I'm sure you could MAYBE look at some other religions/ethnic groups and come up with some similar disturbing mindsets.

It's rather hypocritical to point out whatever "ism" you have been prejudiced against (yes, prejudiced!!!) as being the "most" fanatical.

reply to post by sezsue


Two wrongs don't make a right. And last time I checked it wasn't that Talmud that gave justification to suicide bombers. Your statement is simply a logical fallacy.

reply to post by Founding

And last time I checked it wasn't that Talmud that gave justification to suicide bombers.

Tell me Founding, how much of a percentage of muslims in the whole world make up these 'suicide bombers'?

reply to post by Majorion


They make up the ONLY percentage! What an ignorant reply. You remind of what Stalin said, one death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic. You really want me to put human lives into a percentage....

reply to post by Founding

Yeah, you're right, the but what does that have to do with what the Talmud does say that is just as bad, such as:

it's ok to lie, cheat and steal from goyim,

stating goyim are beasts, not men,
stating all goyim are subject to the Noahide laws which were just for Gentiles, not Jews and which say anyone not worshiping the God of the Jews (idolatry) should be decapitated?

Oh and how doctors must do everything to save the life of the Jew, but don't have to try to save the life of the goyim?

Am I wrong?

Originally posted by Founding
reply to post by sezsue

 

Two wrongs don't make a right. And last time I checked it wasn't that Talmud that gave justification to suicide bombers. Your statement is simply a logical fallacy.

EXACTLY, two wrongs DON"T make a right.

And logical fallacy? I'm sorry, but that doesn't make sense.

reply to post by Founding

They make up the ONLY percentage! What an ignorant reply. You remind of what Stalin said, one death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic. You really want me to put human lives into a percentage....

Only percentage? .. I'm a muslim, are you saying me or my family are suicide bombers? .. are you saying anyone I have ever met is a terrorist or a suicide bomber?

For the record, I've never seen such an ignorant reply from anybody here on ATS as much as you.

reply to post by Majorion


Wow talk about the pot calling the kettle black I could honestly care less about Israel or Gaza to be honest however i do know hate when i see it. Your talking about other posters spewing hate. You show extreme animosity towards Israel and choose to ignore any fact that shows that the Palestinians have made choices that have led to many of there current situations. By the way Using a Muslim assassin from assassins creed I think just sorta proves my point don't you think?

Originally posted by dragonridr
reply to post by Majorion

 

Wow talk about the pot calling the kettle black I could honestly care less about Israel or Gaza to be honest however i do know hate when i see it. Your talking about other posters spewing hate. You show extreme animosity towards Israel and choose to ignore any fact that shows that the Palestinians have made choices that have led to many of there current situations. By the way Using a Muslim assassin from assassins creed I think just sorta proves my point don't you think?

Proves what point? .. that I like to play video games? just like other people in the world do? .. the fact that you know assassins creed shows that I'm more like you and other normal people than you'd like to give credit for.

No I have not ignored the stupidity of the Palestinian government,, but I simply present the opposing view.. the one that usually goes unnoticed.

If you feel that I have ever spewed hate speech about anyone on ATS, then please..by all means.. I challenge you to report any such posts of mine to the ATS staff, that's if you really believe and stand for what you say.