Thanks for the reminder SO.

I think it's a reminder that everyone on the board should read whether they have been posting in the Gaza related threads or not. It seems a lot of posters, some new some not so new, are under the impression that the appropriate response when you disagree with someone is to turn into a five year old and start name-calling and mud-slinging. It makes me wonder why some posters even bother coming here at all if the only response they ever have when someone disagrees with them is resorting to name-calling and personal attacks.

Here's hoping that ATS can get back to being a place for intelligent discussion rather than filled with the kindergarten antics that seem to have taken over many sections of the board.

One of the biggest problems I have seen in threads is history.

Such as

Well group A started
No it was Group B
Group A did this yesterday
Well Group B did this last week
Well 60 years ago Group B did that
But 30 years ago...
2000 years ago...

and so it goes on ad nauseum

So to stop all this can there be an ATS recommended history link for the middle east conflict?
I don't mind if its wikipedia or the bbc as long as most people agree its balanced.

Can we have a start date for the conflict in question, I suggest 100 years from now so 1909 with the agreement of most people?

I think the reasonable people here accepted long ago that there are bad people on both sides of this battle. The problem comes in defending one side no matter what they do and condemning the other side no matter what they do. When people do that, they cross the line from discussing a conspiracy to the roll of hating people because of their ethnicity or religion.

Most Bigots are unaware they are Bigots because they are blinded by the hate. Rules or separate forums will never stop them from spewing their hatred, only ignoring their posts will have an impact.

There are valid arguments against both sides in this conflict because evil knows no borders. There will never be a solution to bigotry or religious intolerance. Haters only see what they want to see and literally block anything contrary to their biased beliefs from their thought processes.

We all have these biases if we were to be honest with ourselves. Part of the solution is that we need to show more tolerance of others beliefs and even if we can't always control our biases at least recognize them and know when to shut the hell up. I know I need lots of work on that myself.

I think far more important than the rules are the discussions like this where we can face our own demons so to speak. Confession is good for the soul.

Perhaps a better idea would be a weekly discussion of disagreements in a forum like this thread where people could come to understand one anothers reasons for their complaints or what about the weeks discussions make people uncomfortable?

I think what we see here is a grand illustration of the microcosm that was designed from the macrocosm. Divide and conquer, works great doesn’t it?

I have witnessed some people try to refer to and reference historical fact to form a perspective that they hope can achieve unity or a better understanding. I have seen others sometimes just dismiss it out of hand in hopes that intimidation through insinuation or accusation might ensure conformity.

I have been alternately condemned, prayed for, mislabeled, misidentified, as well as applauded and commended in the course of discussing this issue and sharing what I have learned about it, those references I have learned from and my own personal opinions and conclusions.

I understand and try to make great allowances for the fears and vanities and passions and the inbred desire for validation after all statism and religions are about control and about dividing and conquering through that means.

It sure is liberating holding no allegiance to any particular G-d or government.

Maybe after awhile everyone will get tired of arguing sides in confrontations over states, G-ds and governments where neither is prepared to look at all the facts, events and root causes to their bickering and join the club. It sure would be nice if people could be more civil and respectful of one another in that process regardless of their views and opinions and how they formed them.

Thanks

Thank you Skeptic,

The reminder is much needed. As things continue to heat up around the world, esp. Mid East, we should remember that everyone has a point of view and deserves a chance to be heard. The only way to have an intelligent conversation is to be respectful of others. While we won't all agree, we can certainly agree to disagree in a civil manner and try to see the others perspective.

Just my opinion though, thanks for letting me share.

Pax

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I have been alternately condemned, prayed for, mislabeled, misidentified, as well as applauded and commended in the course of discussing this issue and sharing what I have learned about it, those references I have learned from and my own personal opinions and conclusions.

.....And that's the thing see..... It is okay to have a different opinion on topics, but name calling should be restrained at all times. This is where most of the problems occur in threads. People find it necessary to label and call names which is uncalled for if you have a difference of opinion. Just my 2 cents.

Thanks Skeptic for the heads up.

Hey-o, SO.

You're probably aware that those of us who actually read your little reminders are more than likely some of the more open minded members who actually want to be well informed and are willing to take a little guidance now and again. I'm sure that there are a few deeply involved in the fracas that just read the headline, delete it, and go right back to being a dick. (See, now I'm being a dick..doh!)

I know that I get a little yippy from time to time and have to remind myself to carefully back away from the computer before I type something ridiculous that I will regret as soon as I do it. Your periodic remarks about playing fair serve to steer me back into the light even if the topic being discussed has no interest to me at the time.

I believe that sometimes people get a little carried away is because they post anonymously. I know I would never dare to say to someone else, in person, some of the things I read here, especially when the blood starts to heat up.

Now being a particularly bright individual (although some would say eccentric and a bit odd), take my advice. If you read a thread title that is obviously just an opportunity to bash heads, stop, take a deep breath, and go off to read about how Elvis had an alien baby that is secretly making donations to the Ron Paul movement. Works for me.

And when all else fails, shake your head and walk away with your head held high that you didn't allow yourself to be dragged down to some other idiots level. (Damn it, being a dick again)

Try a little humor every once in awhile.That works for me too.

Top marks to the Mods for this reminder as i was getting very disturbed by some of the hatred / passion on this forum.

I think we all need to 'be' human as opposed to a follower of an ideology, we could all do well to try and remember that. Myself included.

Peace

I think the name calling is the problem. Of course I don't mind other level-headed people sharing their opinions. But when words like "rich Zionist" or "violent Muslims" and curse words start getting thrown around with sarcasm and hate, it's not informative anymore.

I understand that lots of us have different opinions and sometimes "taking sides" is unavoidable but honestly, talking about how much you hate one race or group or side of the conflict or proving the other side wrong is not going to help. It may be nice to vent, but it hurts other people, regardless of who is "right or wrong."

It's really been getting to me lately, especially the racial/religious/sexual orientation/abortion/everything arguments going on here. We have such a mix of beliefs and we should be proud of it, but sometimes someone hits a sensitive spot and things explode.

We shouldn't be trying to prove ourselves right, we should be trying to find an answer. At least, that's what I've always thought.

Let's take a deep breath. Maybe we should each get a private rant page, or include a rant forum, for people who want to insult others-- they can do it in one place and people who don't want to be insulted don't need to look there.

-I'm also really frustrated that recently the top threads have been about things happening on ATS and all the arguments here. I think that just makes it worse. I miss opening up ATS and the first story I see is something that is actually... interesting.

[edit on 1/5/2009 by ravenshadow13]

My own fault is that my senses take over and I get so fraustrated when I see the children suffer. I walk away from a thread now when I feel someone is being disrespectfull to those kids that are being injured.

I feel we need a specific thread on which to post information from the crisis. I tried diverting posters who were at each others throats by doing just that. But it was unsuccessfull.

A thread like the Georgian conflict thread is a must in my opinion. Whether a thread like that covering Gaza would be hijacked with emotion I dont know. That would depend on how strongly it was moderated.

Respects

Thank you ATS for allowing such a forum to even exist!

Thank you to all of the people in place working behind the scenes for the betterment of the board.

I know how hard your jobs are. I appreciate YOU!

I think you guys need to have a Moderator only designated 'Hot Button Issues Forum' -- after an issue has been designated HBI, ALL THREADS ON THE TOPIC GO THERE.

This way you could control -- and be quasi-responsible for -- the drama these type of topics generate. And we, the plebs, would not need to hear you moan and groan about the burden of being overwhelmed once the decision of designation has been made (i.e. GFL).

You have the ability to edit your HP, do it.

Yesterday you had NOT ONE, BUT TWO INCORRECT threads linking to a video that was erroneously attributed to Israel's current incursion to Gaza (it was a from a bomb that exploded in a marketplace in 2005). While one was directed to the other, BOTH STAYED UP FOR OVER 18 HOURS ON THE HP AFTER THE MOD HAD SHUT BOTH DOWN.

How many people do you think read the first page and emailed the link around before you guys decided to take those threads off/or let them cycle-through the HP?

I say, 'Physician heal thyself' and stop sending me pity-party messages about the burden of it all.

TWISI


EDIT: Becasue I am still not done. Today you have had TWO (out of four) featured "I'M SICK OF" threads on the HP on the same topic (Gaza/Israel) all day.

If you had a designated HotButtonIssue area for times like this you could implement it w/o comprimising what this site is supposed to be about and still feature it on the HP (with a little programming). Get a system in place like you, belatedly, did for Politics and stop giving the trolls an outlet and/or passively fanning the flames on intolerance.

Okay... now... I think I am done.












[edit on 6-1-2009 by TheWayISeeIt]

Whether you are religious or not, I think we all need to say a little prayer for everyone in that region. I know I can certainly see both sides to the story and I think that it's very tragic. That war has been brewing for centuries and I don't see it stopping anytime soon. We can only pray that they will find a way to resolve the conflict soon. The children have been devasted enough.

I support this new Middle-East forum idea!

Learning new rules...

The anger content in my own posts has been too high lately.

When there is good or even great news I expect the ignorance has gone away and I get angry at the shear size of the job of getting common sense through the noise.

I'm glad there are so many people at ATS working on excellence in controversy.

If Santa Clause or the leaders of NASA or the Dept. of Agriculture do something wrong I will assist in pointing one of my fingers at the wrong. Israel, G.E. and Kellogg's Corn Flakes will be held to the same standards.

"Dave, maybe you should take a chill pill and think about this." - HAL (2001-A Space Odyssey)

I think I can write with passion and edit as needed.

As long as nothing bad happens.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Can we stick 'em all one one thread - like with the Obama birth certificate thread - and say ... Discuss the war in Gaza HERE ONLY?

I think there are too many angles and stories within this issue for a single-thread approach.

We are, however, considering a dedicated forum if it appears to be a long-term topic.

I can tell you this only my ex wife approached the number of "your wrong" replies I've received the last few days


Alas I couldn't figure out the answer for that either.

One forum sounds great