Some questions about 2012 and the galactic alignment., page 1
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 4 times
Topic started on 5-1-2009 @ 09:10 AM by nixie_nox
Hi there,
I have been interested in this theory about the galactic alignment and 2012. While I have not made up my mind, it is a fascinating subject.

I do have some questions about the galactic alignment, or GA, that maybe someone can help me with.

1. Is there any actual proof by astro scientists that the GA is happening. I ask this because I have done research and I have not found much on it other then it is a theory.

If you have links, that would be great.

2. What forces cause this to happen. What is driving the solar system up and down through the Milky Way?

Now does it go from the very top to the very bottom? Or does it just flex from the alignment up or vice versa(I hope that makes sense)

3. If this phenomenon occurs every 26,000 years, and it causes the world to go nutty, is there geological evidence of chaos every 26,000 years?

Humans have been on the Earth for millions of years. So obviously we have survived this a few times. I remember some geneticists saying that at one point, there was a bottleneck in human genetics. Meaning that there was a sudden decline in human population to only a small number. I don't know when this happened, but I am wondering if this happened after a GA?

That is kinda number 4.

5. Why does the GA have an effect? And why would we feel the effects recently only a few years before the GA? Wouldn't we have started feeling effects hundreds of years ago?

6. And what makes this GA so special? lets say that humans of been on teh earth for 2 million years. That means we have effectively survived a GA 77 times, so why would this time bring about particular destruction?

I expect answers to be in essay format, minimum of 50 words each, by tomorrow.

hee hee, j/k


any help would be appreciated!

Happy New Year!


reply posted on 5-1-2009 @ 09:28 AM by theindependentjournal
reply to post by nixie_nox


It is several theories and not a known fact to answer the question in the simplest way.

Some claim it is a black hole in the center of the galaxy, yet black holes are only theory still and nt one has ever been found.

Some think it is the wobble of the Earth as well as the alignment of the SUn in the center of the Milky Way, who can say is this is true or not?

I disagree with your notion of millions of years of humans on Earth and would say that the evidence shows a young Earth Age and the population decrease that science finds happens about 4400 years ago, the time of Noah's Flood to e exact and Population experts claim that about 4400 years ago about8 people were left. They use the breeding curve to show this and show the population came from that 4 pairs.

I we had been here millions of years as you suggested the Earths population would be over 150 billion taking the wars and death and plagues and such into account... We are not even close to 150 billion which is why evolutionist claim some population decimation in the NEAR past to make up for their lack of proof and in fact evidence contrary to their thinking.



reply posted on 5-1-2009 @ 09:29 AM by autowrench
reply to post by RFBurns


Me either, but you are right about things coming around again, as in a cycle. I can see this also. The Earth is coming to an end of cycle, in preparation for a new cycle. The Ancients tried to tell us about this, but the real, un-sanitised information is being hidden from us. TPTB know all about this. they plan to kill us all before this happens, you know. They do not wish us to Ascend. If we do, they lose all power over us. What a great idea! Let's do that. Lets Ascend, and then deal with the Cabal, on our terms. Any takers?


reply posted on 5-1-2009 @ 09:33 AM by jaamaan
Originally posted by nixie_nox
1. Is there any actual proof by astro scientists that the GA is happening. I ask this because I have done research and I have not found much on it other then it is a theory.

If you have links, that would be great.

2. What forces cause this to happen. What is driving the solar system up and down through the Milky Way?

Now does it go from the very top to the very bottom? Or does it just flex from the alignment up or vice versa(I hope that makes sense)


I recently came across this picture, i think it tries to explain part of your no. 2 question





There is a lot of this information to be found here:


The “thing” which is very important for all of us, currently present on Earth in this time which according to Gregorian Calendar is November 2008, is that the “ancients” had delivered a message through the Mayan Long Count Calendar that on a date in the future which matches the Gregorian Calendar on 21 Dec 2012 there will be a cosmic alignment between the Earth, Sun, The star cluster Pleiades and the center of the Milky Way Galaxy – Hunab Ku.

On this day, according to ancient Maya and the later Meso-American Civilizations will happen the return of Quetzalcoatl. Is this is going to take place, its still unknown.

So, from the astronomical point of view, in 2012 our star will be in alignment with the center galactic point. This was very, very significant to the ancient people. Besides that, we hear about the hidden Astrology and the various aspects of the 12 signs of Zodiac, than about the effect which comes from the alignment of the Pole of our planet and the galactic center and etc.

On 21 Dec 2012, 11:11 AM Universal Time (also known as Zero Time Point), our Sun and our planet will be at perfect alignment with the Galactic center.
www.projectavalon.net...



reply posted on 5-1-2009 @ 09:52 AM by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by theindependentjournal


First, the bottleneck you site was over 70,000 years ago and there were approx 15000 humans. Second,Modern man has been around about 26,000 years since the last alignment, when Cromags and Neanderthal man traded dominance. Third, the growth of a population is much more complicated. It is dependent on resources, and how crowded a population is. Populations are cyclical and self regulating. It is very possible that their have been past populations of more advanced species that have long ago died out without a trace. We may just be the species de jour.

Having been in the ministry and a staunch creationist for many years, I have long ago bowed to the scientific evidence that has been developing and clarifying our place in the universe. Now I must say we are not all that special and much of what I was taught and believed through my Christian teachers were either lies or information that was designed to support Christian ideas. But under close scrutiny, their claims crumble.

It took many years to get to this point, but I always placed all I heard under a magnifying glass and I am very skeptical of most claims. Also , I thought outside the box and did not believe things just because teachers, professors, journals or preachers told me. Ultimately, we all have to examine the evidence and come to our own conclusions, but what bothers me is how few really question their foundational belief systems. As long as their world view is supported, they choose not to question. Willing ignorance is understandable since most people are unprepared for the reality that may be out there.


reply posted on 5-1-2009 @ 10:45 AM by LoneWeasel
Originally posted by nixie_nox
1. Is there any actual proof by astro scientists that the GA is happening. I ask this because I have done research and I have not found much on it other then it is a theory.


There is no evidence whatsoever of any galactic alignment. That's why you won't find any on the web. A link that answers the question is HERE.


2. What forces cause this to happen. What is driving the solar system up and down through the Milky Way?

Now does it go from the very top to the very bottom? Or does it just flex from the alignment up or vice versa(I hope that makes sense)


The solar system is not moving "up and down through" the galaxy. The only sustained motion of the solar system is the gravitational, roughly circular orbit around the galactic centre.


3. If this phenomenon occurs every 26,000 years, and it causes the world to go nutty, is there geological evidence of chaos every 26,000 years?
Humans have been on the Earth for millions of years. So obviously we have survived this a few times. I remember some geneticists saying that at one point, there was a bottleneck in human genetics. Meaning that there was a sudden decline in human population to only a small number. I don't know when this happened, but I am wondering if this happened after a GA?

That is kinda number 4.



Not a problem - the two questions can be dealt with in the same answer: no, there is no evidence of any particular cycle of violent catastrophes in Earth's history. There have been numerous catastrophes, of course, and some have occured in the history of humankind (though it must be pointed out that the ones we've had to deal with have been minescule compared to what the Earth's suffered in the past). However there is no general pattern to these things, except for the regular weather patterns that cause hurricanes, or the tectonics that cause earthquakes and volcanoes. It's also important to inject a sense of perspective here - humans have been around for only a couple of hundred thousand years. The solar system revolves around the galactic centre once every 250 million years. We're babies. We haven't even lived through one orbit yet.


5. Why does the GA have an effect? And why would we feel the effects recently only a few years before the GA? Wouldn't we have started feeling effects hundreds of years ago?


It doesn't because it doesn't exist.


6. And what makes this GA so special? lets say that humans of been on teh earth for 2 million years. That means we have effectively survived a GA 77 times, so why would this time bring about particular destruction?


Let's not say humans have been on the earth for 2 million years, because they haven't. They've barely made 10% of that time. See LINK HERE. And this "GA" is not special, because as I've previously pointed out, it doesn't exist.

Hope that puts your mind at rest!

LW


reply posted on 5-1-2009 @ 11:09 AM by theflashor
replying to "LoneWeasel"

As for using astrobiology.nasa.gov... as an external source to proove your point. I think we should remember what they also say!

========
NASA has never seen or been in contact with aliens

NASA has never seen or tracked spaceships / UFOS!

NASA Astronauts have never claimed to see space craft in space

NASA says Global Warming is man made and we need to cut Co2

NASA Totally rejects The Disclosure Project and says that the science community laughs at them!

Thats just 5 points they strongly advise are true! Although countless numbers of people on ATS alone would disagree with at least one of the above! (all can be disagreed and backed with evidence to think otherwise)

now replying to "theindependentjournal"

Black holes are not theory really as there are many observations on them. They do exist although what is theory is how they form and how they work/exist. It is blatently obvious that these black holes must have some incredible forces as even light can not escape them! Gravity is strongly suggested to be the cause as observations show that they swallow up nearby objects..

See the following source
news.skymania.com...

Sorry i dont know the answer to your question and to be honest neither does anyone else fully! you can weigh up the different FACTS!! and make your own conclusion... But as most things people can only put into theory how different situations may affect us and the earth!

King regards FLASHOR!

[edit on 5-1-2009 by theflashor]


reply posted on 5-1-2009 @ 11:28 AM by LoneWeasel
Originally posted by theflashor
replying to "LoneWeasel"

As for using astrobiology.nasa.gov... as an external source to proove your point. I think we should remember what they also say!

========


I take your point - but by the same token I don't believe everything I read on Wikipedia either. I just think it's a reasonable place to start.

I agree everyone must come to their own conclusions. The reason I find the 2012 stuff so irritating is that it seems to me to be the very extreme end of conspiracy theorising. Known frauds have come up with a date out of thin air, attributed various "authorities" to that date, and conjured up a conspiracy about it.

I accept reasoned arguments about UFOs because I have seen evidence of them - though I wouldn't like to guess at their origin.

I accept the idea that governments occasionally get embroiled in conspiracies because history tells us even recently that it is so.

I at least listen to the debate around the cause of the 9/11 atrocities because I accept a potential validity to both sides of the conspiracy argument.

I do not accept, or listen, to arguments about a 2012 cataclysm because I have researched the topic and am not satisfied that there is a single shred of evidence, scientific or otherwise, to support the theory. I agree that something could happen in 2012. Perhaps Cheese People from the Planet Gorgonzola will take us over. But there isn't any evidence for that either.

What I have seen is people (on these boards and elsewhere) allow themselves to get seriously upset by stories about 2012 that have no basis in fact. At that point I begin not only to stop listening and accepting, but actively to resent those who propogate wholly untrue warblings for either financial or egotistical gain, at the expense of others.

That is why I bothered to answer the OP - and I can guarantee that said OP will not find a shred of scientific evidence anywhere that contradicts the answers I gave.

Sorry, but so far as I am concerned, that's kind of the end of the story.

LW

[edit on 5-1-2009 by LoneWeasel]


reply posted on 5-1-2009 @ 12:13 PM by theflashor
I totally agree with you LoneWeasel ...

I dont take everything on wikipedia for gospal although wikipedia has been made as a factual site just to inform and has no other possible intentions or motives! (just maybe factual error)

** I will say that i do find myth interesting as the past civilizations do show they had a deep understanding of space and time (even though the wheel hadnt been invented) - or so we think! :S ** - Pyramids / Aztec / Many Miles and Miles of ancient underground Tunnels etc..

I also find religion very interesting as they all prophesize events and tell storys similar to noah!

So im one that wouldnt totally debunk certain theories as there are certain evidence's in myth / religion about events such as 2012 being possible. (even if it turns out not to be 2012!)

And science does also show us that cataclysmic events has happened many times before, Science teach's that we evolved from monkeys! maybe true but wheres the inbetween. Science is not sure but guess's that we and monkeys were the only survivers of one of these events!

Who truly knows? its all theory and guesses on FACTS that we do know! its up to each of us to make our own guesses on the blancs using educated guesses from FACT!

But at the same token im not going to start making underground bunkers and stocking up on goods leaving work Etc (like many around the world allready have).. Untill i see solid evidence!! That would be totally irrational as the world has supposed to of ended many of times before! Theres allready 2013 Doomsday theories and 2009! lol

The fact of the matter is many people are to complacent thinking we are safe in our little bubbles! but the truth is its only a matter of time before we do see a doomsday! Over and out

[edit on 5-1-2009 by theflashor]


reply posted on 5-1-2009 @ 01:59 PM by nixie_nox
reply to post by Oreyeon


Yes I watched that program, and if I posted questions about it, is that a problem?

2012 is a pretty popular subject these days, considering it is not that far away.so I figured someone else could benefit from the info.

But I have had these questions for a while and could never find an answer. But there was still nothing in the program that we all haven't heard before, it was still pretty generic and gimicky for all the build up. But since ATS members are an educated group I figured someone might have info.
I have done a lot of research on this and have found nothing on the GA other then that people think it is gonna happen.


reply posted on 5-1-2009 @ 02:15 PM by nixie_nox
reply to post by Solomons


Sorry for being redundant, but I thought some questions were valid that I have not seen discussed here. If you are tired of the subject you are free to merely pass by the thread.


For the non-creationists(though I appreciate your answers too)
As for humans not being here more then a few hundred thousand years, I guess if you are looking at the history of modern man yes I would agree, but I think if you include the hunched over hairy sort of people or ancestors they could be included.
There was a thread recently on the findings of 2 million year old artifacts recently that is interesting.
ats forum

different article


But say we refer to modern man, and allow him 200,000 years, that means that the GA still occurred at least 3 times in our history, with survival.



reply posted on 5-1-2009 @ 02:24 PM by nixie_nox
Originally posted by jaamaan
Originally posted by nixie_nox


The “thing” which is very important for all of us, currently present on Earth in this time which according to Gregorian Calendar is November 2008, is that the “ancients” had delivered a message through the Mayan Long Count Calendar that on a date in the future which matches the Gregorian Calendar on 21 Dec 2012 there will be a cosmic alignment between the Earth, Sun, The star cluster Pleiades and the center of the Milky Way Galaxy – Hunab Ku.

On this day, according to ancient Maya and the later Meso-American Civilizations will happen the return of Quetzalcoatl. Is this is going to take place, its still unknown.

So, from the astronomical point of view, in 2012 our star will be in alignment with the center galactic point. This was very, very significant to the ancient people. Besides that, we hear about the hidden Astrology and the various aspects of the 12 signs of Zodiac, than about the effect which comes from the alignment of the Pole of our planet and the galactic center and etc.

On 21 Dec 2012, 11:11 AM Universal Time (also known as Zero Time Point), our Sun and our planet will be at perfect alignment with the Galactic center.
www.projectavalon.net...



This brings up an interesting point. Could there be any other kind of astronomical event, something much simpler that could be seen as a great alignment, but that is just the perception and not the fact?

I dunno, maybe a witness of a massive supernova that shines so brightly that it could look like the view is in alignment? Or could solar activity play in here?


reply to post by LoneWeasel


This is pretty much what I am thinking. I have been hearing so much on the GA, and there seems to be absolutely no basis for it whatsoever, which makes me wonder why so much is being made for it.

There are far more credible causes that could cause 2012, that I think this one should be put to bed.

Now I do find that the different predictions, by people and societies that could not possibly have any interaction with other, very intriguing.


I just don't see how it is possible that this phenomenon could possibly be occurring without the notice of scientists.

And that could be my final question, is it possible it could happen without their knowledge? Considering our limited ability to view space? But I imagine just the view from here changing would be enough to predict it, and since there doesn't seem to be any info coming up on it from the professionals, I assume the view is fine.



[edit on 5-1-2009 by nixie_nox]
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