I’m Sick Of The Anti Israel Sentiment Here On ATS!

Originally posted by earthman4
Israel seems to be killing civilians at a 100 to 1 ratio with its enemies. This inspires hatred. If you feel less sick about the situation, well, that makes me sick.

That's total BS! On what are you basing your 'facts?' Please stop spouting false propaganda here to serve your arguments which is pretty crass! Just goes to show how biased you are, blinded by hate.

The truth is that out of 640 people killed (Excluding Israelis) only 176 are civilians. This is as per the stats gained from the medical authorities in Gaza. So this boils down to more than three Hamas terrorists for one civilian killed. Do you think the Hamas can be equated with an unarmed civilian or child? They need to be taken out and that's what the Israelis are doing!

In any case if you've bothered to go through my posts, I have always stressed that killing innocent civilians is UNACCEPTABLE. Period!

So get your facts straight before shooting from the hip! I know you are all fired up at what's going on, but don't let that blind you to the facts.

reply to post by mikesingh


"In any case if you've bothered to go through my posts, I have always stressed that killing innocent civilians is UNACCEPTABLE"

Then why support the dropping of bombs on civilian areas - all Gaza is a de fact civilian area and any bomb dropped, regardless of the intended target will probably result in civilian causalities due to population density.

The only creates more 'terrorists'.

Israel is trying to stop the terrorists...

By committing War Crimes that create... more 'terrorists'...




[edit on 6-1-2009 by Exuberant1]

Originally posted by Exuberant1
reply to post by Matrix1111

 

I guess it is good that the Soviet Union is collapsed and Hitler is dead.

*So what other choice did you have?

Unfortunately, the hate still lingers. It flows everywhere. Just scratch the surface and there it is. Like in these threads. Where does the hate come from? Why do we all believe we are right and the other person is wrong? It seems we are born with this innate self-centeredness that creates a world that revolves around us and everything is meant to be "mine." Obviously that is a misperception that causes us to perpetually manifest conflict. How do we get out of that vicious circle, you may ask? If you even begin to ask that question, then you're on the way to finding the solution. So far, most people don't even realize they are the problem. Know what I mean? ;-)

Originally posted by xmotex

But under the circumstances, what other options were there?

Mind our own damned business?

That might be a good start.

We are under no obligation to support Hamas or the apartheid state that Israel has been since 1967.

A pox on both their houses.

Interesting that you should use a virus analogy. Should doctors try to find vaccinations to prevent diseases? Or should we just let the plagues come? And if we do vaccinate, how many bad side effects result? Is it better to do nothing? Even in the best of good intentions, things can go wrong. Why? Because we are ignorant beings that have lost our way and don't realize you are me and I am you and nobody know what the f*** they are doing. Until we do figure it out, we'll continue to make enemies no matter what we do -- even if we mind our own business. (which can be construed as being a form of selfishness and arrogance in itself)

Damed if we do and damned if we don't.

Originally posted by dalan.
reply to post by Matrix1111

 

Then to top it off the War was funded on all sides by Jews.

By the name of Rothschild.

So that they had an excuse to form the UN and the State of Israel.

If you follow the Illuminati argument to its conclusion, then there is no noble side and everyone is simply venting their own prejudices while the flames are being oxygenated from "beyond." So how do we all get to the other side of the argument and "win?" Obviously, the surface "blame game" doesn't work here. And the deeper you dig, the more puppeteers you'll find. Then what? You think it ends with the Jews? The Masons? The Anunnaki? The Greys? Lucifer? Yahweh? Then who's pulling their strings?

The blame game and scapegoating is a cop-out. It implies "I'm morally right" and everyone else isn't. But where in history has that ever been the case? Life is full of the lesser of two evils. No one is without blame. We all participate in manifesting our inner evils into the world. When we start blaming ourselves and recognize that all the world religions and all the world political isms are imperfect (manifestations of imperfect man), then we can start fixing this world. Until then, our delusions of perfection and righteousness get in the way. And the result is Palestine and Israel.

The problem goes on and on. It's all rooted in each of us arrogantly imposing our views on others and thinking we know best and everyone else should agree with me. Stupid, isn't it.

Originally posted by Exuberant1
reply to post by mikesingh

 

"In any case if you've bothered to go through my posts, I have always stressed that killing innocent civilians is UNACCEPTABLE"

Then why support the dropping of bombs on civilian areas - all Gaza is a de fact civilian area and any bomb dropped, regardless of the intended target will probably result in civilian causalities due to population density.

I am in no way supporting the indiscriminate bombing of civilians. This too is unacceptable. But as I mentioned, some collateral damage is bound to occur in such a scenario.

If the Hamas had the weaponry that the Israelis had, do you think they would not have done the same resulting in huge civilian Israeli casualties? They are the under dogs and thus the sympathy wave.

Another thing I want to make clear. I have nothing against the Palestinians. You may be unaware that my country has been supporting the Palestinian cause since 1948. What I'm against is the Terrorist organizations, Hamas, Islamic Jehad etc, who have hijacked the cause to serve their own ends.

reply to post by mikesingh


So if Palestinians used Fighter-bombers, Tanks and Gunships - they wouldn't be terrorists anymore?

Is that what you are saying?

*Because it sounds like that is what you are saying.

Tanks, fighter-bombers and artillery strikes are not terrorism?

So if Palestine copied Israel tactics vis-a-vis modern military hardware, their action would no longer be 'terrorism'?

[edit on 7-1-2009 by Exuberant1]

Here's what's really going on:

Two children are yelling "blah, blah, blah" at each other and each one has their hands over their ears and nobody is listening to the other.

Hi Op,
Sorry to disappoint you but most of us are against ANY WAR for religious or other greedy reasons.

You obviously are unaware that this 3500 year old religious war between brothers (children of Abraham) was started by Joshua in conjunction with their Incompetent War God who could do magician tricks to make water come from a rock but could not turn the Arabian Desert into a land of milk and honey. Thousands of years ago, before the climate changed, according to satellite data there were numerous rivers under the sand. Had IT done so, the Israelis would be sitting on the current Arabian pool of oil. So much for Omniscience.

No, this War God, who demanded worship of Itself, told them to kill off the inhabitants of Canaan by murder and genocide, stealing their land, their cities, their crops, cattle, as well as their gold and silver, much of which IT wanted for IT's own treasury. If this War God were Omnipotent, it could have just wiped out the Canaanites with a plague or other disaster, leaving the land empty and sterile for the Israelis to move into. No, IT preferred to create a bunch of murderers and thieves.

Then in 1948 the Zionists did the same thing, using the claims of the same War God as an excuse. Revelation 3:9 speaks against the European Zionists. "Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie;" Read what the Jews against Zionism say: www.jewsagainstzionism.com...
Abraham had EIGHT sons, but both Joshua and the Zionists want ALL the land for themselves even if they have to be murderers and thieves to get it.

It is time for the US and other countries to stop taking sides, get out of the Middle East, and develop alternate methods of energy. Take the Toys away from the Little Boys, tear down the fences just like Reagan said in Berlin, AND tell them to live in PEACE as a real democracy instead of a theocracy.

Originally posted by Exuberant1
reply to post by mikesingh

 

So if Palestinians used Fighter-bombers, Tanks and Gunships - they wouldn't be terrorists anymore?

Wow! Did I ever mention that Palestinians were the terrorists?? Sorry, you've got it all wrong. I was talking about the Hamas and Islamic Jehad which are banned terrorist organizations, supposedly fighting for the Palestinian cause which they are not. They are just furthering their own agenda, using Palestinians as fodder. They can't even see eye to eye with the Palestinian Fata organisation, for Chrissake!

So if Palestinians used Fighter-bombers, Tanks and Gunships - they wouldn't be terrorists anymore?

Wonder what you're trying to imply? Have you heard of Al Qaeda? Well, forget about tanks and gunships, they're trying to get hold of NBC (Nuclear, biological, chemical) weapons in the next rung of terrorism. Are you aware that there was active collaboration between the nuclear scientist AQ Khan of Pakistan and the Al Qaeda before he was caught and put under house arrest after considerable international pressure on Pakistan?

And can you even begin to comprehend the implications if the terrorists have such WMDs?

reply to post by mikesingh


"Have you heard of Al Qaeda?"

Yeah.

The American CIA invented the group and now use it politically as an Emmanuel Goldstein Variant....

For all of those who are upset about the civilian casualties in Gaza:

It's quite obvious the IAF has no desire to deliberately target civilians - they are aiming to remove the threat of Qassam rocket sites that Hamas have been using to fire over 4000 rockets into southern Israel.
YES, gaza IS very densely built but would a group of fighters that truly cared about their own citizens use a mosque to store their weapons caches??? - www.liveleak.com...

Similarly, using ambulances to transport armed soldiers?? - www.liveleak.com...

I think it's horrifying how children in the Gaza strip have to try to get to sleep at night with the sound of explosions constantly keeping them awake. Completely traumatising. But why do they run the risk of rocket fire? and death?

Because Hamas has chosen to make civilians their strongest weapon in a war which is largely governed by the media. I think it's disgusting what both sides are doing, but I think it's more disgusting that Hamas have to hide behind women and children.

reply to post by owner


"Similarly, using ambulances to transport armed soldiers??"

Wait - Soldiers?

I thought they were 'militants' and 'terrorists'....

I must have last year's edition of NewsSpeak, my bad.

reply to post by Exuberant1


Hamas: Armed men with guns fighting for the same cause, namely the extinction of Israel. Sounds like soldiers to me

Btw, nice work of completely avoiding the point of my post.

reply to post by owner


"namely the extinction of Israel. "


Going "Extinct" he says...

reply to post by Exuberant1


Actually, I never said they were going extinct. I said that was Hamas's goal. Which it is.

You're very good at trying to twist words and arguments though!

reply to post by Matrix1111


But of all the money "loaned" not a single dime has been
repayed, and probably never will be.
Of all the Hundreds of Millions around the globe needing help
in food,water, shelter the Government has given more money
away for these 7 Million than all the others combined.

The US Gov doesn't have to support Jews or Pales, and that
would make them Neutral. Every president seems to think
giving them billions of bucks every year or selling them
weapons is helping the situation.

If the US didn't support Israel, that 11/9 thing probably would
not have happened. And it's way too late now to put the Genie
back in the bottle.

www.ajc.org...

A review of Palestinian Textbooks

Good morning, O my homeland …
A morning of glory and red liberty, watered by the martyrs’ blood …
“A morning of glory and red liberty, watered by the martyrs’ blood …”
—the hope for the liberation of Palestine.
Reading and Texts, Grade 9, Part 1 (2003),


An excerpt from a children’s poem with a similar meaning:
I shall redeem my country with my soul,
I, the Palestinian child
Our Beautiful Language, Grade 1, Part 1 (2000)


The Prophet was asked: “Which of [all] deeds is best?” He said: “Belief in God and His Messenger.” He was then asked: “Then, which one?” He said: “Jihad in the cause of God.”
Islamic Education, Grade 9, Part 1 (2003), p. 62


Hearing [weapons] clash is pleasant to my ear
And the flow of blood gladdens my soul
As well as a body thrown upon the ground
Skirmished over by the desert predators
Our Beautiful Language, Grade 7, Part 1 (2001)


A poem for first-graders reads:
Fida’i, Fida’i, Fida’i
O my land, the ancestors’ land
Fida’i, Fida’i, Fida’i
O my people, the people of eternity
I shall live as a Fida’i and continue as a Fida’i
And shall die as a Fida’i until it [i.e., the land] returns …
To the teacher: The teacher will repeat with the students this national song several times.
National Education, Grade 1, Part 2 (2000),


By your life! How come that snakes invade us
And we [still] observe a protection covenant [dhimma],
which respects commitments?
Arabic Language—Linguistic Sciences, Grade 12 (2006),


Palestine is the blessed land.… Its soil has been watered by
the blood of the heroic martyrs who died in battles for its
liberation and defense since the [days of the Prophet’s]
Companions to our own days.
Islamic Education, Grade 12 (2006), p. 113

I swear by Al-Aqsa Mosque and those plains
I shall not return the sword to its sheath and shall not lay
down arms.
Arabic Language—Linguistic Sciences, Grade 12 (2006),

A grade 12 language book features the following statement:
Palestine is the land of ribat and jihad.
Arabic Language—Reading, Literature and Critique, Grade 12 (2006), p. 114


O my homeland, I would not cry in this wedding party
For our Arabness refuses that we cry over the martyrs
Arabic Language—Linguistic Sciences, Grade 12 (2006),

reply to post by skeptic_al


After 1991, the Cold War mentality should have stopped and the doors to surrounding Muslim countries should have opened up. But it didn't. Instead we had Pan Arabism fill in the vacuum with Saddam saying he was the reincarnated Nebuchadnezzar and wanted to unite all of the Arab Peninsula under him. And that meant his supporting the end of Israel and the Palestinian suicide cause. It's a mess. And to put the blame entirely on the US Govt is pandering to the "victim" mentality when the whole history began with the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (the Nazi Mufti) assassinating any decent Muslim leader that would have enabled the Middle East to develop in fairness (economically and politically). Instead thugs came into power.

Here's the history of Islamic fascism and how it developed in the Middle East, thanks to the Nazi Mufti and his nephew Arafat:

tellthechildrenthetruth.com...

Originally posted by owner
reply to post by Exuberant1

 

Hamas: Armed men with guns fighting for the same cause, namely the extinction of Israel. Sounds like soldiers to me

Yes! Soldiers of Allah who have been ordained to fight by him to kill all non believers. For this the means don't matter. The end does.

And the ‘means’ could even be Palestinian women and children being used as human shields and cannon fodder by them! The Hamas are the chosen ones. Allah's soldiers. And so is the Islamic Jihad in Palestine, the Hezbollah in Lebanon, the Lashkar-e-Toiba in Kashmir, Bosnia, Afghanistan and Chechnya, The Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan and of course Al Qaeda which has spread its tentacles far and wide.

These brave soldiers of Allah which include suicide bombers that blow up innocent women and children, without batting an eye, have been promised the land of 30 virgins if they die for Allah whilst killing the infidels!

Makes me wonder if evolution of the human soul is actually on a path of regression where these turds are concerned!

Jeeez!