Apologies: Video of Carnage in Gaza Market is a hoax, page 2

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 14 times

reply posted on 5-1-2009 @ 04:34 AM by commodore64

You shouldn't apologise, because this is what they want. The disinformation process here is this: they release this "old-dated" (how can such a massacre be old dated anyway) video intentionally, because they know it will be shown as brutality of Israel, and after a while they say "sorry, it was an old video". Now other side has better cards.
Another thing, you are caling this video hoax, which isn't. It is not staged or whatsoever. I think the title should be changed, before "Palywood Hunters" come here.

[edit on 5-1-2009 by commodore64]

reply posted on 5-1-2009 @ 04:36 AM by commodore64

reply to post by FiatLux

Fiatlux, in television you see at best 5% of the reality, the other 95% is constructed. If you want to see what is going on, stop to watch them and search first the alternative media. Therefore there is internet, and therefore internet is our, for truth seekers, a true weapon.

[edit on 5-1-2009 by commodore64]

reply posted on 5-1-2009 @ 04:44 AM by FiatLux

Originally posted by commodore64
reply to post by FiatLux

Fiatlux, in television you see at best 5% of the reality, the other 95% is constructed. If you want to see what is going on, stop to watch them and search first the alternative media. Therefore there is internet, and therefore internet is our, for truth seekers, a true weapon.

[edit on 5-1-2009 by commodore64]

That`s all fine. My point is, why make a dozen new topics about one thing? You can`t put it all into one topic? Why waist the bandwidth?

reply posted on 5-1-2009 @ 05:16 AM by JanusFIN

reply to post by FiatLux

What really is your problem? - Are you accusing me, that I dont know when is time to open a thread, and when is time to join others? "But you know"...

I have no need to defend my self, but when I see aggressor, I will attack as my defense. And truth is best weapon we have...

Statistics (copy-paste) from my profile,

Threads Started: 322
Total Replies: 5,183
Post Count: 1.084
Applause: 27
Flagged: 671 times

I see nothing to shame, by my statistics... Lets look to your statistics!

Threads Started: 44
Total Replies: 57
Post Count: 855
Applause: 2
Flagged: 2 times

...

...

[edit on 5-1-2009 by JanusFIN]

reply posted on 5-1-2009 @ 05:23 AM by FlyersFan

to you OP

It doesn't happen often that someone here prints a retraction.

It was taken in the Jabalya refugee camp in the northern Gaza Strip, when a pickup truck carrying homemade rockets detonated by mistake during a Hamas rally.

So the footage is actually of Palestinian injuries caused by their own weapons blowing up on themselves. Priceless.

reply posted on 5-1-2009 @ 05:27 AM by ThePiemaker

reply to post by FlyersFan

Yea, this is the boogieman that the Israeli's are so afraid of. Pathetic.

reply posted on 5-1-2009 @ 05:32 AM by FiatLux

Originally posted by JanusFIN
reply to post by FiatLux

What really is your problem? - Are you accusing me, that I dont know when is time to open a thread, and when is time to join others? But you do know...

I have no need to defend my self, but when I see aggressor, I will attack as my defense. And truth is best weapon we have...

Statistics (copy-paste) from my profile,

Threads Started: 322
Total Replies: 5,183
Post Count: 1.084
Applause: 27
Flagged: 671 times

I see nothing to shame, by my statistics... Lets look to your statistics!

Threads Started: 44
Total Replies: 57
Post Count: 855
Applause: 2
Flagged: 2 times

... ...

[edit on 5-1-2009 by JanusFIN]

You may want to watch how you do that. When you reach so far around to pat yourself on the back, you could pull a muscle.
And my only starting a few threads means what? I`m wrong? There are plenty of topics that I can add to without having to start a new one every fifteen minutes. Nice try on trying to make me look bad though.

Oh, and the idea is, putting it all under one topic when it`s all about one subject. And the subject is about what Israel is doing over there, am I correct?

reply posted on 5-1-2009 @ 06:00 AM by JanusFIN

reply to post by FiatLux

End to this discussion. I have nothing against you...

I hope you enjoy your time in ATS in future too!

[edit on 5-1-2009 by JanusFIN]

reply posted on 5-1-2009 @ 06:13 AM by Cadbury

Janus Fin I'd just like to point out that it is not absolutely clear at this time that the video you posted is actually a video of the incident at a 2005 Hamas rally. See pages 2-4 of this thread for an explanation. I called for an analysis of this "recent" video and a video of the actual Hamas incident from 2005. They may not be the same event!

reply posted on 5-1-2009 @ 06:16 AM by Harlequin

reply to post by Cadbury

actually it is

video.google.co.uk...

if you can ignore the propaganda crap , its the first news artical , and comparisons in shots between the 2 video`s are there - same scenes can be seen in both.

took a while to find that video - can`t find any video reference anywhere to 23rd september 2005

edit:

grrr can`t get the embed to work

[edit on 5/1/09 by Harlequin]

reply posted on 5-1-2009 @ 06:25 AM by Cadbury

Originally posted by Harlequin

actually it is

We were already discussing the video you just posted in the thread I linked to above. Without further analysis done there is still no proof that they are actually the same event. They may be, but that's by no means certain yet.

if you can ignore the propaganda crap , its the first news artcile , and comparisons in shots between the 2 video`s are there - same scenes can be seen in both.

took a while to find that video - can`t find any video reference anywhere to 23rd september 2005

I'll ignore the "propaganda crap" when I've found out just whos propaganda this actually is. Someone kindly posted the video I think you were trying to post already. It should be located in the thread I just linked to a few posts up. I'm still not convinced they're the same event at this time. The footage is completely different and we need an analysis done to see if we can by any means identify if they are the same. You can't just say "they look similar" and use that as proof that they are the same event.

[edit on 5-1-2009 by Cadbury]

reply posted on 5-1-2009 @ 06:30 AM by JanusFIN

reply to post by Cadbury

Thanks from doing research!

What was your view from Mosaic News, did they show same place, truck, people, places? I read other thread, but I didnt see your answer to that question, or are you still working on it?

You should do your best in this issue, collect very hard evidence, if you want to debunk this claim all over again...

EDIT:

Ok, now link is working, I will look now those news my self too.

[edit on 5-1-2009 by JanusFIN]

reply posted on 5-1-2009 @ 06:40 AM by Cadbury

Originally posted by JanusFIN

Thanks from doing research!

What was your view from Mosaic News, did they show same place, truck, people, places? I read other thread, but I didnt see your answer to that question, or are you still working on it?

I replied initially saying I was going to take a closer look and report back, but then the thread was closed before I got the chance. A further comparison of the two films certainly needs to be done. They do seem similar in places, but there appears to be way, way more people at the incident confirmed to be from 2005. It was a very crowded Hamas rally, and the footage we have seen that is claimed to be recent seems to have far fewer and the surroundings seem to be slightly different. But there could be a time lapse between the time the two films were recorded. Or News station editing on the video confirmed to be from 2005 may be creating the illusion that they may be different events.

You should do your best in this issue, collect very hard evidence, if you want to debunk this claim all over again...

I'm really not very good with analysis of video but at the moment I'd say we definitely need to take a closer look before jumping on the giddy "hoax" bandwagon. Can anyone else help? I've exposed some blatant lies already regarding this, but I'm not sure if I know how to take it any further.

EDIT:

Ok, now link is working, I will look now those news my self too.

Thank you, Sir! Please post up your findings!

reply posted on 5-1-2009 @ 06:47 AM by Valhall

Thanks for letting us know about this. There has been a long standing practice of propagandist news coverage coming out of the area over the decades. It goes back further than film crews with written reports of false claims of rape on entire villages, etc. And it has been used by both sides of the conflict. It is yet another unfortunate piece of the I/P issue - leaving the world to wonder about the veracity of ANY claim that comes from the region, no matter who makes it.

I appreciate you sharing this information, as the video was heart-rending (it still is, but everything has its place).

There's actually another thread on the board that links to a write-up that has a picture of little girls writing on rockets and claiming they are writing something like To Palestinian kids, with love. At the bottom of that write up there is a p.s. that states the author made that up and actually hasn't got any clue what the girls are writing. These pieces of misinformation do not help the world at all.

reply posted on 5-1-2009 @ 06:48 AM by JanusFIN

My fast opinion to this discussion, is this same event in both videos?

Yes, it is. Why? You can see it from the start...

Mosaic News
video.google.co.uk...

- at 01.10 You can see white VW in corner of the street

LiveLeak
www.liveleak.com...

- at 00.08 You see same VW in corner of the street

End of this debate for me. Thanks from research anyway, cause in war, "trust no-one" ... But I do really post, if something new comes up from this mess.

[edit on 5-1-2009 by JanusFIN]

[edit on 5-1-2009 by JanusFIN]

reply posted on 5-1-2009 @ 06:51 AM by Harlequin

liveleak video at 25 seconds - 2 men on floor in grey check shirts

liveleak video at 40 seconds , man on the floor injured black shirt brown trousers ,

google video i linked at 4min 50 onwards -

now you tell me those are not the same people as i mentioned in the liveleak video , shot from nearly the same angle as well

edit:

if you look carefully at 4min50 onwards you`ll actually see another cameraman to the left of the screen - given the angle of that person i would put real $$ its the one who shot the liveleak video.

[edit on 5/1/09 by Harlequin]

reply posted on 5-1-2009 @ 06:58 AM by jimmyx

reply to post by JanusFIN

palestinians are being used as "actors" in this media war. unfortuntely, some are never there to "act" again. i think that's why we here in the U.S. just don't care that much, because this has been going on for decades. it never stops, and you can trade pictures from 5 years ago, 10 years ago, or 30 years ago, and they would all look the same. type "pallywood" into YOU TUBE and it will show how another disturbing side of media manipulation is being used.

reply posted on 5-1-2009 @ 07:03 AM by Harlequin

Originally posted by jimmyx
reply to post by JanusFIN

palestinians are being used as "actors" in this media war. unfortuntely, some are never there to "act" again. i think that's why we here in the U.S. just don't care that much, because this has been going on for decades. it never stops, and you can trade pictures from 5 years ago, 10 years ago, or 30 years ago, and they would all look the same. type "pallywood" into YOU TUBE and it will show how another disturbing side of media manipulation is being used.

i mentioned elsewhere that richard landes - one of the 2 that coined the phrase `pallywood` has a close and personal relationship with ruthie blumm - lead reporter of the jeruslem post and the other person to push the above phrase; so whilst his work might be good - it must be viewed with the above in mind , that it is not entirely without bias.

as for example , israeli media and event manipulation is not mentioned.

[edit on 5/1/09 by Harlequin]

reply posted on 5-1-2009 @ 07:10 AM by Cadbury

Harlequin, JanusFin:

Thank you, both of you. That is indeed the same white car parked in the exact same place. Looking at this over the last few minutes at Harliquin's recommendation, I have also spotted 4 separate people who appear in both videos, dressed exactly the same. I tried to keep a very open mind about this whole event, because I semi-suspected that someone uploaded the liveleak video In January of 2009 (tagged as 2005) to try and make it look like this didn't happen recently. But when I've publicly been proven wrong (or sort of wrong, even), then I've been proven wrong. I must graciously accept that. I'm looking for truth, not to perpetuate propaganda.

I would also like to apologise to the staff for my rather aggravated complaints against them (publicly and in the complaint forum). It's just that at the time the reason I was given for the last thread being shut wasn't accurate either. We still needed to get to the bottom of it, and I believe we have now.

Good work, ladies and gentlemen.

reply posted on 5-1-2009 @ 10:53 AM by bandaidctrl

reply to post by ZombieSlayer

If you really think about it, how do we know ANYTHING is true unless we experience it first hand?

Our history books, scientific reports, data whatever, unless you are an expert in that field how do you know? You're trusting in someone else to be honest with you, and from what I've seen, there aren't very many trusting people on this board, always arguing that one source of information is disinfo, or another source is biased, false propaganda. Yet they trust completely in what supports their belief about a certain topic.

Where do you draw the line between paranoia and reality?

The website is stating that the video was a hoax, so we're trusting in them to be honest with us, therefore believing that it is in fact a hoax. Saying it's disinfo doesn't help one bit because it DOES plant seeds of doubt in ones mind. THen you'll find yourself 10 years later sitting in your dark room with just a computer to keep you warm and the screen to give you light, saying to yourself...

"Or is it"

it'll drive you crazy man, skepticism is healthy...but at some point you have to believe in something, whether it's yourself, your gun, you private parts...unless of course you really aren't yourself and what you see and feel is just part of your imagination.

or is it?

I don't mean to be mean or rude in this response, I was actually thinking about this yesterday and your response reminded me of it. no offense meant though

-JR

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