The Circle of Faith:Why Faith is NOT a Good Thing

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


I found myself nodding the more and more I read your post.

reply to post by TruthParadox


First off gravity is not a theory it is a law. As far as christian believing in evolution- I know, I was one seeing as that's what I was taught in school. We never talked on creation for more than maybe 1 minute. When I got older and started to think for myself and started questioning things I became somewhat of an agnostic bordering on atheist. That's when I had an encounter with God that changed everything. My "knowledge" didn't mean anything it seemed so I went deeper into researching who God was. God started revealing scripture to me and then proved them, showing me He never once lied. He also never mentioned evolution in the bible, He only talked about creating. I have good evidence that creation is truth but I am not going to list all my evidence here as that would make this post way too long and off topic. If you want a source for creation science let me know.
Also try reading romans 1:17-28. I am not here to pick apart evolution, only to discuss why faith is not bad. If you only started this thread to bash people qho believe in God, then I'm done here on this thread.

Originally posted by One4truth
I am not here to pick apart evolution, only to discuss why faith is not bad. If you only started this thread to bash people qho believe in God, then I'm done here on this thread.

No, not at all. It just so happens that much of this faith is used by Christians.
I was simply pointing out that you made a false statement about Darwin.
Darwin did not denounce evolution.
That's a Christian myth.
You supported a Christian myth over facts - that's the power of faith.
What other myths are you supporting over facts, I wonder...

Originally posted by One4truth
reply to post by TruthParadox

 

When I got older and started to think for myself and started questioning things I became somewhat of an agnostic bordering on atheist. That's when I had an encounter with God that changed everything.

Please elaborate.
I am agnostic bordering on atheist and it would be quite an event for god to prove itself to me to change from my current belief, which is almost non.
I am sure you wouldn't mind explaining how atheists can possibly be converted.

How did you convert back?
-Did god deliver your pizza one night? Delivered from evil (evil pizza corp.)
-a dream
-god smoted an enemy at your request.
-a prayer was ACTUALLY answered?
What?

Funny, the other day the girlfriends daughter did well on her test, she said that "god must have been on my side"
So I said:
"so god cares that you pass a test while millions of people die from war and disease"
"Why would god care to help you to pass a test?"

"SHUT UP! you a**h***" she said.

reply to post by One4truth

First off gravity is not a theory it is a law.

not to dance around semantics but gravity is a theory. not a law.

The only reason we 'know' anything is because we have been taught it and it makes sense to us, if it doesn't, we don't believe it. We have 'faith' in the people that gave us this 'knowledge' that they are either right, or telling the truth.

Hell, I believe that my mum is in work, but unless I go down there and check, it is still only faith, even if she should be.

You may believe many things and have a good handle on reality, but IMO, it is your reality, I will believe many different things than you and on the whole, our realities will be very different.

Also, logic is a point of view IMO, what you consider logical, others may not and vice ersa.

Faith is important, we use it daily from the most trivial things, to the major.

EMM

reply to post by TruthParadox


Do you have faith in gravity? You can't see it, touch it, smell it, etc..

Originally posted by BlueRaja
Do you have faith in gravity? You can't see it, touch it, smell it, etc..

I can feel it.
There is evidence of the effects of gravity.

I've probably had to explain this 5 times in this thread:
I'm talking about 100% belief without evidence.

Comparing religion to gravity is quite absurd.

reply to post by Toadmund


Well here is how it happened... I was at a really low point in my life. Low to the point that I was doing a lot of drugs and drinking and had made the decision to commit suicide because I was angry at how screwed I felt in life. I figured it made no diff if I died because it would be the end of a miserable life. I had been asking a friend ( who happened to be a christian) about God and why He would let me suffer if He was real. My friend told me to ask God Himself. That night I did. Tgats when a scripture came to me. Now just to clarify, I was raised catholic and was told not to bother reading a bible because I wouldn't understand what it meant and that only the priest could interpret. Anyway, I went to my friend the next day and told her what happened, so she went and got their bible and showed me the scripture (Heb.11:6). That night, I went and tried to get drunk, I couldn't no matter how much I drank. So I tried getting high, again I couldn't no matter how much I did. So I asked God, WTF. He said to me "you wanted to know if I was real, well here you go. If you want to keep running go ahead, but now you know." from then I decided to follow Him. He at that point spoke to me about things that are to personal to reveal in this post. Needless to say, he took away the pain and addiction that night.
Some of you will probably dismiss this account, but I can't because I can't deny what happened then or since.
My suggestion is to realize He is waiting for you to acknowledge Him first and then to look for His response to your faith.
Psalm 14 was my condition before.

reply to post by TruthParadox


There is evidence of God,read romans1:16-32. But some people can look at it and not see it. Like the saying "can't see the forest through the trees".

Originally posted by TruthParadox

Originally posted by BlueRaja
Do you have faith in gravity? You can't see it, touch it, smell it, etc..

I can feel it.
There is evidence of the effects of gravity.

I've probably had to explain this 5 times in this thread:
I'm talking about 100% belief without evidence.

Comparing religion to gravity is quite absurd.

How would you answer folks that have felt God's peace/love in difficult situations, and other inexplicable events that have turned out well? That's why many have faith, because they've experienced things that have led them to no other conclusion.

Originally posted by One4truth
reply to post by Toadmund

 

Well here is how it happened... I was at a really low point in my life. Low to the point that I was doing a lot of drugs and drinking and had made the decision to commit suicide because I was angry at how screwed I felt in life. I figured it made no diff if I died because it would be the end of a miserable life. I had been asking a friend ( who happened to be a christian) about God and why He would let me suffer if He was real. My friend told me to ask God Himself. That night I did. Tgats when a scripture came to me. Now just to clarify, I was raised catholic and was told not to bother reading a bible because I wouldn't understand what it meant and that only the priest could interpret. Anyway, I went to my friend the next day and told her what happened, so she went and got their bible and showed me the scripture (Heb.11:6). That night, I went and tried to get drunk, I couldn't no matter how much I drank. So I tried getting high, again I couldn't no matter how much I did. So I asked God, WTF. He said to me "you wanted to know if I was real, well here you go. If you want to keep running go ahead, but now you know." from then I decided to follow Him. He at that point spoke to me about things that are to personal to reveal in this post. Needless to say, he took away the pain and addiction that night.
Some of you will probably dismiss this account, but I can't because I can't deny what happened then or since.
My suggestion is to realize He is waiting for you to acknowledge Him first and then to look for His response to your faith.
Psalm 14 was my condition before.

You cant say your life is meaningless, becasue so many people hope to see you the next day... I hope to see you grow. to know that you threw it all away to spite all of the people around you... the taste would be terrible.
Your life and what you come to do and understand has an effect on me.

GOD... through the natural buildup of tolerance, and what you ate probobly made you not get drunk.... Dont say that your meaning in life is a mystical being... there are people here in reality already that take meaning from your life and need you.

There are so many religous people who are going to come to a realization that this mysticism was wrong... its going to be a terrible day.

I love you.

[edit on 8-1-2009 by Wertdagf]

Originally posted by One4truth
reply to post by Toadmund

 

That night, I went and tried to get drunk, I couldn't no matter how much I drank. So I tried getting high, again I couldn't no matter how much I did.

What an awful god! Couldn't he have just fixed your hangover?

Some of you will probably dismiss this account, but I can't because I can't deny what happened then or since.

If it makes you happy and you can believe in a higher power, I am envious, I wish I could do that. But until I recieve confirmation I will be doubtful.
My Idea of god if there was one, is the Universe (I capitalize Universe, it's everything) as we are the product of the Universe.
A Universal god so to speak. This god does not care, is impartial and boldly goes according to the laws of the Universe.
And does not have a white beard and sandal clad feet.

But the Universe just 'is' and is not god, but if their was a god, what else could god be, but everything; the Universe.

I've had weird paranormal things happen in my lifetime, but I do not attribute them to god. I do think there are mysteries out there that we can not explain, stuff beyond our comprehension.
But to say it's god, I'll remain agnostic about that.

And if god proves itself to me, it better not screw with my brew and greens.
That's not acceptable!
BAD GOD, NO!!

[edit on 8-1-2009 by Toadmund]

reply to post by One4truth

That night, I went and tried to get drunk, I couldn't no matter how much I drank. So I tried getting high, again I couldn't no matter how much I did. So I asked God, WTF.

to parallel your situation when i was religious i would go to parties with my freinds but i would not drink more than a beer because the bible tells you, you are not to get drunk. well one party everyone i was around was drunk and we were all having so much fun and just being idiots. later they all accused me of being drunk but i really wasnt i was just having a great time at the party.

now days im not religious in a official religion sense. i would say spiritual perhaps. anyway i get drunk from time to time and ive found that i can act perfectly sober or i can act drunk. alchol can influence you but how you really percieve its effects are mainly psychological.

also hypnotists can hypnotise people who are stone cold sober to think they are drunk and drunks to think they are sober. there are many intresting parallels between hypnotism and religion.

and when god talked to you did god really tell you that?
did he call you on your cell phone or shoot you an email? did he appear on your computer screen and talk to you? or did you hear his voice in your head?

religion is the most powerful drug, but it is still a drug. it is a drug i exspiremented with for sometime but ultimatly i tired of its side effects. the thing is religion forces your mind into an us vs the unbelievers mentality and makes it very difficult to rationaly think of what people are trying to show you.

dont be afraid to think outside the box. it is not heresy.

[edit on 8-1-2009 by TheRepublic]

Originally posted by BlueRaja
How would you answer folks that have felt God's peace/love in difficult situations, and other inexplicable events that have turned out well? That's why many have faith, because they've experienced things that have led them to no other conclusion.

Peace/love... That's an emotion right? Emotions are highly fallible.
When I was a kid and I thought there were monsters under my bed, I was afraid (emotion). Does that prove that there were actually monsters under my bed? No. It's evidence of the power of the mind and nothing more.
Had I continued to have faith in something that wasn't there, I guarentee you I would have seen shadows or heard sounds and connected it with the boogyman.

But see, again, your assertion makes no sense.
You say they have faith because they have experienced things?
So then that would be evidence, right? In which case faith would not be needed, right?
But faith IS needed, because they know deep down that it's not evidence. Because people in this state will connect winning the lottery to be 100% proof that God exists - when it really just means you won the lottery.
The power of faith is to destort reality, not present it.

Originally posted by TruthParadox
The power of faith is to destort reality, not present it.

TP thats a very pertininet observation and I think you'll find most psychologists (and psychological illusionists) would agree on it.
A good analogy about the power of religious faith Vs reality would be the potency of voodoo magic over its believers.
The brain can be a very powerful thing sometimes and a person can make all manner of (un)conscious presumptive,irrational connections given the right motivation.

Originally posted by TruthParadox
I can feel it.
There is evidence of the effects of gravity.

I've probably had to explain this 5 times in this thread:
I'm talking about 100% belief without evidence.

Comparing religion to gravity is quite absurd.

Oh really?

Both are faiths and beliefs not laws actually:

Imagine the weight of a nagging suspicion that what held your world together, a constant and consistent presence you had come to understand and rely on, wasn't what it seemed. That's how scientists feel when they ponder gravity these days.

For more than three centuries, the basics of gravity were pretty well understood.

Newton described the force as depending on an object's mass. Though it extends infinitely, gravity weakens with distance (specifically, by the inverse square of the distance). Einstein built on these givens in developing his theory of relativity.

Then more than a decade ago a researcher noticed something funny about two Pioneer spacecraft that were streaming toward the edge of the solar system. They weren't where they should have been.

Something was holding the probes back, according to calculations of their paths, speed and how the gravity of all the objects in the solar system -- and even a tiny push provided by sunlight -- ought to act on them.

Now scientists have proposed a new mission to figure out what's up with gravity.

Staggering possibilities

Pioneer 10 and 11 launched in 1972 and 1973. Today each is several billion miles away, heading in opposite directions out of the solar system.

The discrepancy caused by the anomaly amounts to about 248,500 miles (400,000 kilometers), or roughly the distance between Earth and the Moon. That's how much farther the probes should have traveled in their 34 years, if our understanding of gravity is correct.

Space.Com

A LAW that is being broken as we speak...

Again how bright is the sun or screen where you are my friend?

ALL is mind and illusion.

Kind Regards,

Elf.

Misplaced faith is always a bad thing.

I didn't vote for Obama, but for the good of the country, I pray that he does well.

I fear the so many people have put so much faith in him that they will be so disappointed that they will turn on him.

Originally posted by karl 12

Originally posted by TruthParadox
The power of faith is to destort reality, not present it.

TP thats a very pertininet observation and I think you'll find most psychologists (and psychological illusionists) would agree on it.
A good analogy about the power of religious faith Vs reality would be the potency of voodoo magic over its believers.
The brain can be a very powerful thing sometimes and a person can make all manner of (un)conscious presumptive,irrational connections given the right motivation.

I really doubt that you'll find most, or even many, psychologists who will agree with the statement "the power of faith is to distort reality, not present it."

Most psychologists recognize the extraordinary importance of faith to the human mind and emotions. Not faith in any one thing or other, but FAITH itself.

Faith is not the belief that there is a gray-bearded giant above the cloud cover who toys with humanity and punishes them for being human.

I'm really distressed that so many in this thread perceive faith as synonymous with a specific presentation of christian dogma, and that despite it having been pointed out by numerous posters in numerous ways, are unwilling to question their assumption about what faith is and can be.

I agree....this thread highly distorts the religions and spirituality as similar things. They are very different.

Our brain seems wired for faith, it also seems wired for us to be co-creators in some strange way.

Why would we have all the imagination we have....are we all supposed to just write tons of fantasy books and all be a 'stephen king'....

I think many stories that are called myths contain truths....it takes faith to look at them all and discern the righteous teachings from the fearful teachings.

God would never teach out of fear....Thee wants us to come to Thee out of our own readiness....Thee would never push something someone is not ready for. No would thee wipe of entire nations from the planet just because they were a 'bad seed' or because he lost patients in them.

Faith is simply believing that there is more to our life then just this random f'cked up experience.

It has a purpose, seek it, search it....open up to the Universe, Thee will show you things.

LV