Israel-If This Thread Doesn't Open You're Eyes,Then Nothing Will.

first post feels like BIOSHOCk.

reply to post by Odessy

Natural Calamities does not differentiate Races/ethnicity/Religious belief, but WARS do .
The victims of FASCISM have become FASCISTS, they practice Ethnic cleansing and Apartheid and a 1000 other crimes against Humanity.
Good Luck for your Peace initiative.if you want it really !
Some of them believe that the life of one JEW is worth a few 1000 muslims blah blah ...well to all those ,I wish Good Luck and Godspeed.
Today's Friends/supporters will turn on each other , soon they will destroy each other.
we shall watch the fun on that day.
There is a bigger plan from the Master planner,
and the ''chosen ones '' have run out of excuses to be used
on Judgement Day.
All of us will be present.
we shall watch the fun on that day.

Originally posted by magicmushroom

Lets just see how many nay sayers will come here and try to shout down these truths and facts. As Rabbi Rerrin said, 1 million arabs are not worth one Jewish finger nail such statements have all the signs of Hitlers Nazi Germany and if Jews act like Nazis then they should be called Nazis.

Hey Magic!!! I can see how you would come to that conclusion, however that doesn't make the others saints either. Both sides have said incredibly mean things and both wish to wipe each other out. I'm not taking a side here either.
I guess what bothers me the most is when people are decieved into taking a side in this battle. To me both sides have done evil things and done horrible things. To say one is any better than the other is incorrect in my view.
My needle slightly sways from the middle towards Israel ONLY because God promised them that land and it is my belief that they are supposed to get it. I just wish they could do it in a better manner and that all these different people could somehow live together.
Listen folks... say what you will, but I have been to Israel. I used to drive a mail van from Haifa to Tel Aviv everyday. I met many people and heard both good and bad from both sides. NO ONE is a saint in this conflict and sometimes it seems like some ATS members are trying to show one side as good or bad.
I'm sorry... there is no good or bad in this conflict...there only IS.

reply to post by DantesLost

I take my hat of to you sir for that is a fine op.
That pic of the kids signing shells makes my heart sink

Originally posted by DantesLost
Thats right,another thread on Israel.

Why?

Because in this case ignorance does not equal bliss,it equals genocide.


We've all heard the stories,the claims;Arabs and Muslims want to wipe Israel from the map,they hate all Jews.And we've all heard the replies to such things;these people are animals,Israel is defending itself,these people want war they've got it,Palestinian people should be killed no matter what,etc etc etc etc.

Maybe these quotes from Israeli prime ministers,politicians and others will make you stop and think.I know for some members thats asking an awful lot,but Israel has made no secret over the decades about their feelings for Arabs and the people of Palestine.

Thats right.Israel has done something worse than lying,they've told the truth.The truth of how they (not all Israelis) feel about the Palestinian people,and what they will/have done to achieve their ends.

So maybe now is the time to start listening to these truths.


The quotes below can be found here.www.monabaker.com...

Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves...politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves...The country is theirs,because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country.

David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.

There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population.

David Ben Gurion, quoted in The Jewish Paradox,by Nahum Goldmann, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1978,p.99.

"There is no such thing as a Palestinian people...It is not as if we came and threw them out and took their country.They didn't exist."

-- Golda Meir, statement to The Sunday Times, 15 June, 1969.

We walked outside,Ben-Gurion accompanying us.Allon repeated his question,What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!

Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.
Funny the mention of Genocide in relation to Israel, and what they are doing to Palistine, or what ever its called now.

I find it sort of offensive that when Hitler was doing the same thing to the Jews, it was called evil. Now that the Jews are the ones doing it, its really not even a big deal.
I think the US should redeem itself to the arab world and stand against Israel. Showing the rest of our lovely global community that they are not anti-Islam

reply to post by Frontkjemper


Your statement is smothered in contradictory ideas. If something is "given" to another group, this implies it did not belong to them in the first place. How can Israel be given something that does not belong to them? Second, how can something be "taken" from a group of people without causing harm? You state that you believe in giving something to Israel without hurting others-- I read your statement as a credo to Palestine: "Just give us the land, and you will go free." I disagree with your unrealistic, ONE-SIDED, views.

Hey Magic!!! I can see how you would come to that conclusion, however that doesn't make the others saints either. Both sides have said incredibly mean things and both wish to wipe each other out. I'm not taking a side here either.
I guess what bothers me the most is when people are decieved into taking a side in this battle. To me both sides have done evil things and done horrible things. To say one is any better than the other is incorrect in my view.
My needle slightly sways from the middle towards Israel ONLY because God promised them that land and it is my belief that they are supposed to get it. I just wish they could do it in a better manner and that all these different people could somehow live together.

Your comments are ridiculous- Hitler also stated that the "gods" prompted his actions. I cannot agree with your "sway towards Israel" because of words in a book. If the all Holy Being promised them the land, why did they have to be given it in '48? Also, why would the all Holy "Benevolent" ONE not assist with some diplomatic strategic support? You cite words that are sacred to only one group, yet neglect the words of the other-- NOT FAIR.

Already talked about this very same information back on the 1st, the problem is my Topic wasn't catchy enough for most on ATS.


www.abovetopsecret.com...



[edit on 6-1-2009 by mazzroth]

reply to post by smhart


Please remember that isreali intelligence, the mossad created and funded hamaas as a buffer to Arrafats plo, please also remember that isreal broke the truce by assassinating key hamaas officials, also remember that the possibility exists that the rocket attacks on isreal are being done by people paid by isreal to do so, note that the isreali death toll from said sugar powered home made rockets is only four deaths not 500+, unlike the isreali retaliation with one ton bunker busting bombs supplied by the usa to drop on civilian houses, isreal has absolutely no moral high ground in this struggle, and yes! hopefully someone will wipe them off the face of this earth for this atrocity, these systematic, planned crimes against the people of Gaza (humanity), did they learn nothing by what was done to them? obviously not, people forget so easily many of the isreali leaders were terroists themselves as was Shirom aka , the butcher of beruit. I am appalled, give me a rocket launcher with real rockets. I appall violence in any form, but what they are doing must stop because the long term consequences are unthinkable.

Unbelieveable what caliber of buttheads are at large in this forum! Who do you really want to react to the everlasting lies about "world Zionism" and whatever you can dream up on hardly 10 mill. jews.

How the hell should these people ever be able to cope with your expectations when even 2 jews can have 3 different opinions!!!

You make your dum statements sound like something which was picked directly out of one of Hitlers speeches 70 years ago. What do you really want to achieve with this exposure of your own lack of intellectual competence???

Just asking.

This thread really shows who is brained washed. Nice post topic creator. (I am serious)

Originally posted by lawlb0t
This thread really shows who is brained washed. Nice post topic creator. (I am serious)

Maby you will mention a few examples to back up you're statement, instead of making a one liner

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
Anyone really interested in why this is all happening now please read the above articles.they seem accurate enough.
It seems that throughout history the Jews seem to bring trouble with them where ever they go and when Britain realised this they tried to send them well out of the way.
they pretty much helped kick out the arabs who had been living in these lands for centuries.
So between the Jews and the western nations who really is to blame for this so called "Arab problem".
I know I will come across here as a bit crass but where I come from there has been much violence and hardship due to political and religious differences.
And if we can sort it out ,then I don't see why they cannot.
If you were to ask me, I would say that they are not even trying to settle their differences and live with each other.
I think a large part of the problem lies in the history of this relocation of the Jews.I believe it has left the palestinian peoples felling alienated and without any support from the rest of the world.(Basic ,I know)
But if a large occupying force moved into Israel and started kicking Israelis out of their homes and businesses how would they feel.
Fairness would play a big part in any settlement or peace deal and just at the minute I do not think Israel as a nation can be expected to treat Palestinians fairly.
I think most people would agree that an immediate ceasefire should be called.There are too many innocents dying.

Thanks for reading, May God bless you all.

justamomma

It is..... This statement above is a very true statement and you will know these people, not by their genuine concern for people, but for their worship of the state of Israel and all of its zionist leaders decisions.

Yes,it is a topic that is rarely discussed.Which is a shame because it is so interesting.Attempting to force the hand of God is a whole new level of megalomania.




to everyone

I just want to give a big thank you to everyone who has posted,even those who I do not agree with.Its much appreciated.

Over the last two decades, I have been a lead negotiator on matters of defense and intelligence for the US Govm't. When unsuccessful as a negoiator, I make recommendations to upper echaleons of the US Govm't. Usually, the next steps are militarily/covert.

I have spent years studying the conflict and psyche of Arab and Jew. I have concluded a few simple truths on the nature of things and would like to share with the board. All arguments are emotionally charges and we all have personal bias like religion, political affiliation, etc. I have removed these and conclude this about the Arabs and Israelis. No matter which "side" you are on, I think most will agree on these when the emotion is taken out:

1. Nothing in life is inalienable. After meeting Arafat, I recall him always invoking the "inalienable rights of the Palestinian people." Couple this with the idea of "self-determination" and we see the creation of a myth. This is applicable for just about everything from you job to the sovereignty of the nation-state.

2. To gain that which you call inalienable, you must
a. win it through militarily force
b. negotiate for it
c. be lucky and have it given to you.

3. The Palestinians are:
a. unable to win these "rights" through militarily force
b. unwilling to negotiate for it until recently. Fatah has shown much willingness to negotiate. Hamas has not. End of story.
c. unlucky people because
1. the Holocaust happened
2. American Jews have money and media to support the cause of Israel
3. their own demise - they used poor strategies to portray themselves in the West, ie. Munich, Hijackings, suicide bombings

It is my conclusion, that for a fact, Israelis are European and have a strong notion of nation-state. They know how to survive. Arabs are communal and will never unify the calphate - Sunni and #e which they need to do to defeat Israel from a military point.

Obviously, this balance keeps us from an "ultimate Jihad." Hamas will be defeated (no Hamas moderate, which is why Israel has no choice but to preempt).

Hezbollah will not be defeated. Justice and proportionality matters not. Tel Aviv will be nuked, eventually. Most likely by 2030. Palestinians will continue to die by Israelis and their own swords with peak and trough low intensity warfare.

Be safe and be thankful for the US

Originally posted by play4keepss
1. Nothing in life is inalienable. After meeting Arafat, I recall him always invoking the "inalienable rights of the Palestinian people." Couple this with the idea of "self-determination" and we see the creation of a myth. This is applicable for just about everything from you job to the sovereignty of the nation-state.

2. To gain that which you call inalienable, you must
a. win it through militarily force
b. negotiate for it
c. be lucky and have it given to you.

Here is what I believe is a "RUB" in your post...
Arafat essentially quoted the Declaration of Independence that says...

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

He seems to have believed that the Founding Fathers of the USA were quite brilliant. The US Constitution has a "Bill of Rights" and the Declaration of Independence has 3 more. All of these RIGHTS are unalienable, meaning that these RIGHTS are inherent in all men who are all equal and thus no government can take them away. The government does not grant these RIGHTS since our CREATOR granted them.

Even if the Revolutionary War failed the RIGHTS would still remain UNALIENABLE. Even if GW froze in Valley Forge they would still remain. Hence FREEDOM and FREEDOM from TYRANNY. Naturally Arafat didn't have a leg to stand on since that is not the USA but given the reality that you were part of the peace process surely you know what unalienable means.

Washington himself warned us over and over about entanglements and taking sides but consequently you folks did take sides and still insist on taking sides. The USA has endlessly supported Israel and as Arafat let you know that he studied American history you let him know that he had to comply. Naturally these Palestinians do not have resources as has been assured by Israel and the USA but if Arafat believed that their God Given Rights were like ours since all men were created equal well things could be different today.

Originally posted by play4keepss

Hezbollah will not be defeated. Justice and proportionality matters not. Tel Aviv will be nuked, eventually. Most likely by 2030. Palestinians will continue to die by Israelis and their own swords with peak and trough low intensity war

Thanks for share you're experiences, in a "get to the point way". Clear short facts, that even i can understand
Now you're also aware of the future. With you're status and as you point out, no emotions are involved. May i ask if you're ready to explain the future a little bit further ?

[edit on 6-1-2009 by flymetothemoon]

Originally posted by Zepherian
Judaism is just another elitist driven religious structure, where the broader population are herded into the agendas of a small elite.

This may be true in how *you* view it, but it is not true from my perspective. In fact, Judaism is more practical and realistic than most realize. It does not seek to define G.d because G.d can not be defined and therefore, one cannot be controlled through it. The so called "rituals" are ways of incorporating the idea of the divine in to even the smallest matters for the individual. It is a connection that one makes to acknowledge the reason we are here. It is a beautiful expression between man and G.d and to the person who *understands* the depth of it, there is no way one can be controlled by it for it teaches a person that G.d is found in more than just one man... He *is* the Life Force.

And as for the other religions that don't limit G.d to a *thing* or *man* but understand that G.d can NOT be defined or limited within the confines of any one thing within our physical world gets *it* and they can not be controlled or deceived either.

Zionist may say they subscribe to Judiasm, but they do not.. they worship money. Christians that worship Jesus, a man, as G.d do not subscribe to true christianity. Muslims who worship a rock and/or their hatred also do not practice Islam as it was meant to be practiced. Those who truly understands that G.d is the Life Force that moves every living thing, no matter the expression they choose, they can not be accused to be part of the herd for their's is an expression that comes from within.

[edit on 6-1-2009 by justamomma]

Once again, I'm in awe due to people recently being so shocked by the current massacres of innocence in Palestine.

This isn't news.

For years, I've been watching videos, viewing photos and reading stories from Israel and Palestine and it's just horrific to know what happens between the two. Suicide bombings in Israel, bombs being dropped in Palestine, parties and restaurants being blown to hell in Israel slaughtering FAMILIES, Palestinian CHILDREN being taught to kill Jews and hate the west. Israeli children being taught Palestine is the root of all evil.

Folks, I'm sorry to say but after years of observance, I have to say Palestine are the ones here who are more extreme than Israel.

Imagine if Canadians came across the border blowing crap up murdering our citizens, what would we do? Probably do the same as Israel. Take action.

However, the Jews did come in and kick the Palestinians out, so, who knows.

All I know is: This isn't groundbreaking. I'm not one bit stunned by what's going on. Civilians killed in Palestine? Oh geez, really? Like that hasn't happened before....

I'm ANXIOUSLY waiting for a suicide bombing to occur in Israel that'll cost the lives of many innocent citizens. What will everyone think? Will they jump for joy and say FINALLY Palestine struck back? Who knows,

I have NO idea why the most recent attacks in Palestine gained so much attention than ever before.


And of course, once again, Chechnya is left in the dark.

reply to post by DantesLost


At least you are not conceited... Thinking one post is going to change everyones minds. I am sure no Arabs or Palestinians in particular have ever said anything negative about Israel's existence.