Israel – The Sociopathic State

Ok so Israel is sociopathic state so what does that say about the mentatility of the people who provoke it willingly for a reaction.

Not to clever would be the obvious choice.

If you keep poking a rabid dog with a stick is it honestly a surprise when it bites you and makes you cry.

You can't really feign innocence in the whole affair of why the dog attacked you.

reply to post by SR


what is the solution in your opinion than? wait until you will be dead? or try to put attention on the subject? this is what they are trying to do. they are trying to say "HELP".

with the weapons they use they have to know that the chances to achive anything by the fight is zero. they are paying with their blood to put the issue on your tv screen. so we can start the protest in our countries and make a pressure on government to act. to protect that people in Gaza and whole Palestine

Originally posted by czacza
reply to post by mrmonsoon

 

and what about this proposal:

bringing back the humanitarian aid to Gaza until it is not going to be neccessary

giving the palestinians their land back

rebuilding their infrastructure

rebuilding their factories and houses

giving the money for the "new begining"

bringing to Gaza internet and satellites so we can teach them


I am not a socialist but WE made it so that they lost it all. and WE are responsible.


I am pretty sure that would stop it directly, but noone is wishing them to live in normal world. the easier is to murder all of them and this is the plan which is now in progress.

Dude this is simply going to go bad. We have nothing to offer the Palestinians as we are the same ilk as the Israelis. The fact is that the USA is in fact in this up to it's eyes! What Ron Paul said is true! I posted an article from Jimmy Carter and the USA's act of taking sides and even directly attacking Mideastern nations is enabling the Israelis.

Most of the people on these types of message boards amount to hard cases. They support Bush or Israel and pour French wine in the gutter. The USA will ultimately pay a price for picking sides. Our karma or whatever you call it will simply go in the rear.

Our own President said something to the effect of:

One of the delegates, Nabil Shaath, who was Palestinian foreign minister at the time, said: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I am driven with a mission from God'. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did."

That should have been the day George hit the rubber room! That should be something that Americans would remember but instead he gets praised. George is giving the blood feast to the Israelis now as a parting gift.

[edit on 4-1-2009 by Alpha_Magnum]

Originally posted by czacza
I am not a socialist but WE made it so that they lost it all. and WE are responsible.

I am pretty sure that would stop it directly, but no one is wishing them to live in normal world. the easier is to murder all of them and this is the plan which is now in progress.

There is the problem right there --

Good, peace loving people like yourself can't get your arms around the idea that Hamas exists only to destroy Israel. If you listen to any interview with a Hamas leader they will insist that ALL of the land of Israel is theirs. They will insist that no Israeli has any right to even live much less live in peace. They do not want any type of peace with Israel regardless of the borders or political arrangement. Their simple and single goal is to eliminate Israel.

Now, let me ask you - how do you negotiate with an armed, military group who's only goal is to destroy you? Do you really think that Hamas can be appeased with land or money or new bridges and schools? Do you really think that Hamas actually cares about Palestinian civilians? (the same civilians they themselves will kill for any number of reasons) In case you need help deciding the answer is no.

The sad fact is that the conflict between Israel and Hamas will continue until Hamas recognizes that Israel has a right to exist. That is the first and most basic step. Until that happens there can be no peace. The fight will either continue forever at some low level or until one side completely destroys the other.

I am not a war monger - I just have my eyes open so I can see.

reply to post by czacza


Well the best we can hope for is a ceasefire soon and more talks, If the worse comes to the worse UN peacekeeps will have to babysit inbetween Israel and Gaza.

reply to post by itguysrule


but there was some period of time when there was a ceasefire. so it is possible to talk. and in fact in that period it was israeli side which did not kept to the conditions by not leting inside of Gaza the trucks with humanitarian aid and shooting the tunnels between the Egypt and Gaza through which the food was transported.

but for sure there is a chance to talk. the best mediator is UN or EU. the last expected to make it right would be US.

reply to post by Alpha_Magnum


I just wanted to show the other possibilities than killing everyone in Gaza. but I think that you are right. it is going to go bad. pretty sad

Originally posted by SR

Well the best we can hope for is a ceasefire soon and more talks, If the worse comes to the worse UN peacekeeps will have to babysit inbetween Israel and Gaza.

I honestly and truly wish that would work. Unfortunately, I don't expect Hamas to ever honor a ceasefire longer than it takes them to smuggle in more weapons. I see little value in UN peacekeepers because their track record is pretty bad. Also, how are UN peacekeepers going to stop Hamas rockets from being fired over their heads from Gaza to Israel? The peacekeepers would literally have to occupy and control every inch of Gaza - it can never happen.

reply to post by czacza


I agree there can be more talks - but concessions must come from BOTH sides, not just Israel. You are also correct that the US is not a neutral party. We (the US) have never been neutral in this conflict so I have always thought it was futile for us to try to play that role. Unfortunately, the UN and the EU aren't neutral either. Who would be a neutral party? I can't think of any.

reply to post by itguysrule


in EU there are countries who do support Palestine (like France) or Israel (like Britain) and some more neutral (like Germany or Poland) and that is why it would be the best host for the peace talks.

there are two solutions - watch as Israel will kill all Palestinians or trying to stop this mass murder and ask them to sit and talk.

I vote for the second alternative

reply to post by czacza


If the EU would step up and sponsor/mediate a real negotiation in this conflict I would be first in line to wish them success. The EU as a whole is probably the closest thing to a neutral party available - at least better than the UN.

Here is the real problem.

The UN won't be accepted as ones to seperate the waring parties.
The reason is the UN allowed Hezbolla to setup and fire rockets from their post.
With that understanding, there is NO reason why they would be trusted to keep things safe.

The real question is who(s) are willing to go into Gaza and prevent attacks by whatever methods are necessary.
I don't see anyone stepping up to do that.

I see some who want to step up and protect Hamas as they continue to attack.

Any truce, any peace must have a reasonable method to assure no attacks on both sides.

I honestly don't know how that could be effectively done.

On that same idea, what would these troop(?) do when attacks are launched from Gaza (they can't be everywhere at once).

Seriously...........

You can be sure these are the issues that are holding up a truce and peace.

For those who actually want peace, we need to answer these question in realistic, real world methods.

Originally posted by czacza
reply to post by Alpha_Magnum

 

I just wanted to show the other possibilities than killing everyone in Gaza. but I think that you are right. it is going to go bad. pretty sad

Yea the USA supports the invasion and eventually it will expand. It might be enough to pull Iran into the conflict? Since everyone is at everyone else's throat globally how can it have a happy ending?

[edit on 4-1-2009 by Alpha_Magnum]

Most of the world is anti-semitic, so this post does not surprise me in the least. If you were surrounded by enemies who have been promising your destruction since the beginning of recorded history, I believe you would feel differently.

The last war with Hezbollah was started by who? Um, Hezbollah (a violent terrorist group). This was was started by who? Um, Hamas, who broke the cease fire by randomly firing rockets into Israel territory.

I am sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinian civilians, but I cannot understand why they voted for a party (Hamas) who promised only death and destruction?

reply to post by gideonsamson73


You'd understand better if you had lived their under the corrupt, western-backed "moderate" government they opposed that would accept any israeli demand and put it's people in such shockingly poor conditions in the first place. That is the cause of this. Then again that's like us voting for a Ron Paul type government that listens to it's citizens (bailout alert!)

The only real psychopaths out there are the Muslim fanatics in case you haven’t heard. Those fanatics like Hamas and Hezbollah are bringing the pain and suffering on there people.

18 months training before entering Gaza!

- Sounds like just a defense action?

Israeli army trained in Gaza mock-up

The Israeli army spent 18 months training for its ground attack against Gaza on a model of the main city built at a desert army base, a military spokesman said.

"Our soldiers know all the back streets where their targets are," military spokesman Avi Benayahou told Israeli public television.

"For a year and a half our soldiers trained on a reduced model of Gaza City built on the Tsehilim base" in the Negev desert of southern Israel, near the frontier with Gaza, he added.

www.abc.net.au...

Originally posted by Alpha_Magnum

The Former US president Jimmy Carter has broken the silence about Israel's nuclear power and told reporters at a literary festival in UK on Sunday that Israeli has an arsenal of 150 nuclear war heads.

Feeble Jimmy is lowballing the figure. A US Army colonel who has good contacts wrote a paper for Air University's Center for Proliferation Studies
which cites a peak number of 400 warheads at 1997 - of course, some attrition of warheads is certainly possible since then.

The article is "THE THIRD TEMPLE'S HOLY OF HOLIES: ISRAEL'S NUCLEAR WEAPONS," Warner D. Farr, LTC, U.S. Army. The Counterproliferation Papers, Future Warfare Series No. 2, USAF Counterproliferation Center, Air War College, Air University, Maxwell AFB, Georgia, and is located at:

www.au.af.mil...

Farr cites Kenneth Brower's “A Propensity for Conflict: Potential Scenarios and Outcomes of War in the Middle East,” Jane's Intelligence Review, Special Report no. 14, (February 1997), 14-15. as his authority for the "400 nuclear warheads in 1997" figure.

Now in reality this started prior to WW1 and through that the USA and GBR have done everything possible to Balkanize the entire Mideast. The USA and GBR are experts at warfare. Both nations know how to get the other guy to fight via proxy. The fact is that the USA and GBR are in this and have been in this since oil was discovered in Mesopotamia (now Iraq) and Iran.

Many posters here have a short attention span and forget thousands of years of history and go with the old, "Well this is really about the Palestinians firing mortars and rockets at the Israelis" excuse! In reality Jews began entering Palestine in earnest since 1917 thanks to the British, French, Italians and America. It is almost like the 15 - 30 million invaders from Mexico and South America. A complete takeover...

...The original point of Western presence in that area was to secure passage to the resources and over 100 years nothing has changed. The USA has supported both sides in wars like the Iran-Iraq war and we have armed proxies like Osama Bin Laden to fight against our resource competitor RUSSIA.

Right as far as the analysis goes.

However, we couldn't reasonably have foreseen bin Laden's decision to declare war on us as long as we had a single soldier in Muslim territory. The evangelical efforts of the Saudi clergy have extended the meaning of that term so that it covers an area ranging from London(istan) to East Timor - or Detroit, if you want to stretch a point. That would make Michigan a REAL "flyover state!"

Anywhere Muslims have traveled and set up communities is fair game to set off another religious war - according to one of bin Laden's more important sources for Muslim religious insight, any place where Muslims live is a place where non-Muslims may not set foot. That's unacceptable.

But I can see the emotional impact of the Palestinians' case. However, their own leaders sold land to the Zionists, and they lived there before the Sykes-Picot Agreement with the blessing of the local authorities. If violence against the Jews of Palestine hadn't been systematically promoted by local Arabs in many cases imposed by the British as leaders of Palestinian Muslim areas between the Wars, there might not have been the need for expulsions to occur.

Frankly, I wish the US HAD accepted the Zionists as citizens instead of nodding along with the Sykes-Picot Agreement - those people are geniuses, and our whole technological base would have been improved dramatically.
But the tragedy of the story is that we couldn't offer them the land of Israel.

Instead of re-fighting every war in history as the Palestinians and Serbs seem to want, why can't we just GET ALONG? Stop the suicide bombers and rocket attacks - and guys, if you have to, go and cut some Hamas throats - and settle with Israel in court. You might win.

Originally posted by gideonsamson73
Most of the world is anti-semitic, so this post does not surprise me in the least. If you were surrounded by enemies who have been promising your destruction since the beginning of recorded history, I believe you would feel differently.

The last war with Hezbollah was started by who? Um, Hezbollah (a violent terrorist group). This was was started by who? Um, Hamas, who broke the cease fire by randomly firing rockets into Israel territory.

I am sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinian civilians, but I cannot understand why they voted for a party (Hamas) who promised only death and destruction?

No,israel broke the ceasefire www.guardian.co.uk...

I dont know about you,but considering even during this peace deal israel still controlled gaza's airspace,its borders,its coast nevermind they set up a no go area "inside" gaza.

www.globalsecurity.org...

reply to post by FlyersFan


There were reports just prior to the outbreak of violence from the Israeli's that poorer Gazans, such as widows with children, have been eating grasses they pick from broken areas of pavement. I think you would have to be starving to do that don't you?