1 Chop, 2 Chop & ALL 3 Fall Down, page 4
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reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 12:07 PM by cogburn
reply to post by The All Seeing I
Is it possible for enough heat to be conducted to warp portions of steel not directly exposed to fire? What temperature were beams that were still coated in fire retardant? Were temperatures that could warp those beams possible? If it were possible, what percentage of deformation would be evident in those beams? How would this deformation contribute to the overall collapse?

From earlier in this thread:
"At 600C (1100F) steel has half the strenght versus room temp, at 1000 C
(1800F) only 10% of original strenght. Steel also expands as heated -
if the ends are restrained the steel will sag and buckle. As the steel deforms out of plumb will affect the load carrying ability. "

Damn, there's that physics again.

I know it seems like I'm hopping on both sides of the discussion that has arisen from this thread, but neither the OS supporters nor CTs have provided sufficient information to back either claim.

An intellectually honest individual would tell both camps to go back to their corners and crack out a slide rule. Your task is incomplete.... and like my 6th grade math teacher told me ad nauseum... show your work.


[edit on 9-1-2009 by cogburn]


reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 12:55 PM by Nola213
Originally posted by cogburn
reply to post by The All Seeing I


From earlier in this thread:
"At 600C (1100F) steel has half the strenght versus room temp, at 1000 C
(1800F) only 10% of original strenght. Steel also expands as heated -
if the ends are restrained the steel will sag and buckle. As the steel deforms out of plumb will affect the load carrying ability. "

show your work.
[edit on 9-1-2009 by cogburn]


Damn this nearly sounds verbatum to what that guy in the Harley Davidson guy said to a reporter on 9/11, who looked like he just stepped out of "Disguises are us".

Funny how before this guy was interviewed, there were actual "live" witnesses reporting secondary explosions. TV anchors (think it was Dan Rather) saying WT7 looked like a CD, firemen reporting explosions sounding like gunfire, basement workers getting thier skin blown off by explosives.

But after Harley man came in ON 9/11 ,that very day with essentially would end up as the official "story" to me is just a tad suspicious.

Who was that guy anyway, wonder what his name is and what he does for a living??? I mean the guy figured out how the buildings fell on 9/11!!!!, shouldn't he be given some type of award.

Jet fuel does not burn hot enough to melt steel, neither does anything else found within the twin towers (unless you count the thermite puring out of the side of one Tower for a good 10 minutes).

But it does burn hot enough to break the steels intergrity to carry the load it was ment to? This is your argument yes? Cogburn?

Well then how do you account for balls of steel metled, and fused together?
Steel melted into a "lava like" consistancy that dozens of fireman/clean up workers, heck I even saw on videos.

What did burn hot enough to make the basements of WT1 and 2, and even 7 look like molten steel foundaries?


reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 04:40 PM by The All Seeing I
adam... you need to either fetch a cup of coffee (wake-up) or take your riddilin (slow-down).

I have already explained why the towers should have fell like a tree ...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

... Gage is basically pointing out the same thing, just in a different way.
His claim that an object will fall with the "path of least resistance", is another way of stating Newton's law of momentum conservation.

As i have been saying, there are very basic science at play here, that you boys do everything in your power to attempt to ignore and discredit.

[edit on 9-1-2009 by The All Seeing I]


reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 07:31 PM by adam_zapple
Originally posted by The All Seeing I
I have already explained why the towers should have fell like a tree ...
www.abovetopsecret.com...


You've given your opinion with no supporting calculations. Since we know nothing of your qualifications in this area: Take this theory down to the physics department at your local university and let me know what the profs have to say about it.

Originally posted by The All Seeing I
... Gage is basically pointing out the same thing, just in a different way.
His claim that an object will fall with the "path of least resistance", is another way of stating Newton's law of momentum conservation.


Answer me this:

If we have a 50lb dumbbell suspended 10 feet above the ground, centered above a 5' x 5' x 5' box made of plywood, according to your understanding newton's law of momentum and the "path of least resistance"....where will the dumbbell land if dropped?

[edit on 9-1-2009 by adam_zapple]


reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 10:23 PM by thedman
reply to post by cogburn


How able FDNY deputy chief Vincent Dunn And Battalion chief Arthur
Scheuerman analysis of the collapse

Long article

www.icivilengineer.com...


reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 11:14 PM by pteridine
reply to post by The All Seeing I

You said; "Which brings us to Occam's Razor and our 2 most prominent theories to date:
1. CT: a hybrid thermite controlled demolition
2. OS: 2 planes brought down 3 buildings due to key structural damage and fire"

How much hybrid thermite do you propose was needed?


reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 11:45 PM by GenRadek
Originally posted by The All Seeing I
So if i flip further into your Brain Operators Manual, will i find a proclamation that all CT SEs are anti-american? Seems to me that those who love their country the most expect more from their government and fellow citizens... like this CT SE explains:

One of our primary responsibilities as architects and engineers is to ensure public safety in and around our structures, and we take this seriously. It is also our responsibility as concerned American citizens to ask questions and seek honest answers. I encourage everyone to read the numerous books, technical reports and papers about the WTC; look closely at the photographs and videos; listen to the speakers with an open mind. Decide for yourself, and take a stand for what you believe. As a structural engineer I believe in the laws of physics and rely on them every day.

After much reading and studying it is obvious that NIST, FEMA and the 9/11 Commission have all fallen short of a detailed accounting of the catastrophic collapses of the three World Trade Center buildings in Manhattan on 9/11/01. A few examples of unexplained details include the "severe high temperature corrosion attack on the steel" as described in Appendix C of the FEMA Building Performance Study, the complete symmetrical collapses following asymmetric structural damage and short-term fires, and the chemical signature of incendiary compounds found in the toxic WTC dust.

[edit on 6-1-2009 by The All Seeing I]


You know this is why I just love the CT. So much fun to take apart and laugh at. But before that allow me to explain what this engineer failed to learn about (or wasn't taught this as aprt of his degrees) that I put in bold. He apparently forgot the part of what happened in the pile after collapses. He probably wasnt required to take a chemistry class, because those that did study the "corrosion" on the steel did not find it strange at all.
This can be found here:

www.debunking911.com...
911research.wtc7.net...

Now as there is a lot of reading, I encourage you read through this very carefully and see what so many of you CTists ignored or missed. If you still think its all bunk, please provide some evidence of it and some facts. As Seymour said, show us the math, the physics, the chemistry, the metallurgy, the science as to why this explanation is wrong.
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