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Topic started on 3-1-2009 @ 03:28 PM by masonwatcher
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 +8 more
Gilad Atzmon - Living on Borrowed Time in a Stolen Land
palestinethinktank.com
 Communicating with Israelis may leave one bewildered. Even now when the Israeli Air Force is practicing murder in broad daylight of hundreds
of civilians, elderly persons, women and children, the Israeli people manage to convince themselves that they are the real victims in this violent
saga.
Those who are familiar intimately with Israeli people realise that they are completely uninformed about the roots of the conflict that dominates their
lives. Rather often Israelis manage to come up with some bizarre arguments that may make a lot of sense within the Israeli discourse, yet make no
sense whatsoever outside of the Jewish street. Such an argument goes as follows: ‘those Palestinians, why do they insist upon living on our land
(Israel), why can’t they just settle in Egypt, Syria, Lebanon or any other Arab country?’ Another Hebraic pearl of wisdom sounds like this:
‘what is wrong with these Palestinians? We gave them water, electricity, education and all they do is try to throw us to the sea’.
Astonishingly enough, the Israelis even within the so-called ‘left’ and even the educated ‘left’ fail to understand who the Palestinians are,
where they come from and what they stand for. They fail to grasp that for the Palestinians, Palestine is home. Miraculously, the Israelis manage to
fail to grasp that Israel had been erected at the expense of the Palestinian people, on Palestinian land, on Palestinian villages, towns, fields and
orchards. The Israelis do not realise that Palestinians in Gaza and in refugee camps in the region are actually dispossessed people from Ber Shive,
Yafo, Tel Kabir, Shekh Munis, Lod, Haifa, Jerusalem and many more towns and villages. If you wonder how come the Israelis don’t know their history,
the answer is pretty simple, they have never been told. The circumstances that led to the Israeli Palestinian conflict are well hidden within their
culture. Traces of pre-1948 Palestinian civilisation on the land had been wiped out. Not only the Nakba, the 1948 ethnic cleansing of the indigenous
Palestinians, is not part of the Israeli curriculum, it is not even mentioned or discussed in any Israeli official or academic forum. (visit
the link for the full news article)
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reply posted on 3-1-2009 @ 03:28 PM by masonwatcher
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Gilad Atzmon is a world renown jazz saxophonist born in Israel. He is also an antizionist and antinazi who has campaigned for the freedom of
Palestinians tirelessly.
Atzmon has suffered from zionist slander campaigns and has been called anti-Jew, anti-Semite and self hating Jew alternating depending on the purveyor
delivering the insult. He comes regularily to London and I have had the privileged of going to one of his gigs. The guy is cool.
palestinethinktank.com
(visit the link for the full news article)
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reply posted on 3-1-2009 @ 03:45 PM by HunkaHunka
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Definitely a new and interesting perspective from most of what I've read.
Thanks for the post.
Anyone out there find issue with the points made in this article?
I'm interested in hearing a rebuttal.
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reply posted on 3-1-2009 @ 04:19 PM by Loke.
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In few words i will say.
This man is absolutly right...
Best regards
Loke.
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reply posted on 3-1-2009 @ 06:26 PM by Dracula23
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reply to post by masonwatcher
Every time an Anti Zionist or racist parade arrives in town, you find them carrying Gilad Atzmon on their shoulders. Why not, they have got an Israeli
Man insulting Jews and Israel. Sounds Familiar?
*snip*
*editted out personal attacks. cheers.
[edit on 4-1-2009 by alien]
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reply posted on 3-1-2009 @ 06:33 PM by masonwatcher
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Originally posted by Dracula23
reply to post by masonwatcher
Every time an Anti Zionist or racist parade arrives in town, you find them carrying Gilad Atzmon on their shoulders. Why not, they have got an Israeli
Man insulting Jews and Israel. Sounds Familiar?
All I have t say to you Masonwatcher is that you are both ignorant and misinformed. Try attending a college where factual history is taught. Relying
on the fictional, racist crap the Nation of Islam or any other Racist group churn out merely keeps you a slave to your pathetic victim mentality.
Sadly, you will remain an angry, ignorant member of the underclass that is perpetuated by the people who teach you this drivel. You are a life member
of the collective human race. Try to be an asset to it. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
A plagiarist as well as being a zionist. The difference is that you zionists only have a couple of fruitcakes attacking the Palestinians, Arabs and
Muslims. For every discredited Ayaan Hirsi, there are a thousand Gilads and Jimmy Carters. 
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reply posted on 3-1-2009 @ 06:50 PM by jam321
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Hard to steal land when it was given to them. The rest of the land was conquered through battle. The same way many other nations increased their land
mass by.
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reply posted on 3-1-2009 @ 06:51 PM by Founding
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reply to post by Dracula23
Just ignore mason, he/she/it makes about a ten anti-israel posts a day.
What an ignorant article... its only purpose is a psychological attack and annoyance on level headed minds. I love how every arab from left to right
tries to identify with the so-called palestinan struggle, only to talk tough and sit on their asses.
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reply posted on 3-1-2009 @ 07:07 PM by noangels
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reply to post by Founding
A lot of the world sides with these arabs Founding,its not just an Islam thing!
On the radio today call after call came in saying how barbaric Israel were in their treatment to palestine over the years and during this current
blood bath.
These were not arabian accents coming out over my car speakers but pissed off english people of all ages and sexes who have had enough of the bully
boy tactics going on.
I for one like the fact the OP here posts his side of the story as it nearly evens up the BS that comes from all your lots racial hatred threads that
follow this site around like an eternal shadow, with their glut of ingnorant stars awarded for each useless post
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reply posted on 3-1-2009 @ 07:17 PM by Dracula23
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I find it funny you can’t answer one point Wafa Sultan made about Islam and modernization. Not one word about woman’s rights in these countries.
one word about the fact that in western countries Christianity and religion are not part of the educational system Unlike Muslim countries. One word
about why most Muslim countries are under dictatorship and fascism. One word why all the countries in the Middle East with all their wealth and
resources are third world countries and most people live under poverty.
I’m not Zionist im an educated atheist and I call it as I see it. Keep your one-line propaganda comments and try attending college.
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reply posted on 3-1-2009 @ 07:32 PM by theindependentjournal
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Originally posted by noangels
reply to post by Founding
A lot of the world sides with these arabs Founding,its not just an Islam thing!
A lot of the world? I don't think that statement could be proven or disproven so I won't bother other than I would disagree with that part...
I would agree that Nazis, Skinheads, Muslims, Klu Klux Klan members and other assorted Jew Haters side with the Terrorist Organization Hamas.
They hate the Jews so much they would rather side with a known Terrorist Organization that uses mentally retarded kids as pawns in their suicide
games. They hate the Jews so much they would rather side with a known Terrorist Organization that targets innocent civilians purposefully.
They hate the Jews so much they would rather side with a known Terrorist Organization that sends rockets into places that could kill Muslims as easy
as Jews.
They hate the Jews so much they would rather side with a known Terrorist Organization that has links to other global terror networks and Terror
supporting states in Islam.
They hate the Jews so much they would rather side with a known Terrorist Organization that puts its own people in danger in order to kill innocent
Israelis.
Most of the world has Hamas on their Terror Group List and have publicly stated that they support Israel in taking out Hamas, which are nested in the
homes and neighborhoods of the people of Gaza... You would think if they cared about those innocent Gazans more than they cared about innocent
Israelis they target for killing, they would not use the Gazan streets and homes for their attacks, but Hamas has never said it likes Gazans it has
only stated it hates Jews and will kill them at any cost. Even the death of the Gazans is included in "at any cost". But that is OK to side that
way, but do not think you come off as being sided with poor palestinians because you don't. To those with sanity and no hatred of Jews to cloud their
judgment you only appear as either as Muslim or a Jew Hater or insane, why else would you side with such trash as Hamas. Just FY! 
[edit on 1/3/2009 by theindependentjournal]
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reply posted on 4-1-2009 @ 04:58 AM by captiva
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Thank you for the article mason. I am not well versed in Isr/Pal history. As a member of this so called human race my one and only concern are the
children being killed on both sides, especially now in Gaza.
I would add...If there own god said it was wrong they would still deny historical truth. The more nay-sayers you have post, the more your truth rings
true.
Respects, star and flag to you mason. Keep up the good work.
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reply posted on 4-1-2009 @ 05:24 AM by TheOracle
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Israeli media brainwashing, most israeli are sheeps like many of us. PAlestinians have been portrayed as nuisance rather than human beings that have
lived there before they arrived. Israel being such a small country, the govt badly needs the population on its side
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reply posted on 4-1-2009 @ 05:26 AM by czacza
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S+F.
hope it will get to someone.
cheers
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reply posted on 4-1-2009 @ 05:40 AM by Nirgal
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Originally posted by Dracula23
Try attending a college where factual history is taught.
Impossible. All taught history is objective. One thing I was told when I began my university degree (Middle Eastern Politics and History just so you
know) was that:-
1) After the first year of study we would become pro-Palestinian.
2) After the second year of study we would become pro-Israeli.
3) After the third year of study we would blame everyone.
These are my "facts".
[edit on 4-1-2009 by Nirgal]
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reply posted on 4-1-2009 @ 06:24 AM by bfitz92
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reply to post by TheOracle
before who arrived? i hope you don't mean the Jewish people . because i hate to say historically they have always been in that area living with Arabs
and Christan.
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reply posted on 4-1-2009 @ 06:40 AM by Darthorious
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Understanding the past can bring light to a situation but it doesn't fix what is done and occurring.
The only peaceful way out of this mess now is to start with the present and work backwards.
Determine who and why the people were shooting rockets into Israel if need be have some kind of small meeting with spokesmen so as to avert any
possible assassination attempts from either side. The leaders can speak through them on phones/computers or whatever they have at their means and
start there.
The need to then determine an acceptable temporary resolution for a cease fire with both sides agreeing to execute any of their own for breaking the
cease fire.
At that point you know there will be at least one radical in the Gaza strip that will fire some off and then they can have an immediate public
broadcast execution maybe a beheading to get the point across this is a serious issue that needs to be worked out and killing random people for no
apparent reason is not the way to go.
If the main problem is food Israel or the UN could just issue cargo drops of crates of food into the area at first until it is safe enough for a
convoy to actually go into the city and drop off needed supplies.
We can complain all day long about what was done in the past but until we change the present there is no point in even discussing the past because it
becomes a moot point until talks lead in that direction to determine the real overall fundamental problem of why they want to kill each other. What
concerns Israel has about them to block off boarders and even at points block off aid and food coming to them.
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reply posted on 4-1-2009 @ 07:01 AM by Exuberant1
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reply posted on 4-1-2009 @ 07:19 AM by phinubian
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I really do not think people know their history, what this article said is all I have ever really understood in trying to get to the bottom of this
mess to begin with, it is a shame it really does remind me of the American Indian to an extent, their plight and ultimate defeat as a complete culture
and then the end game of being placed onto reservations on actually their own land. I am very confused about the reality of the mess and where it may
actually end up, it is all too complex for me to take a side or have anything real to say that would change anything, my prayers go out to anyone,
especially the children that has a bomb dropped onto them when they themselves as an individual had no choice in being born into that hell and that
goes for either side. 
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