UFO Key West...New Years Eve Missile Launch ??

reply to post by Chewy_Solo

As for me myself, i may stick around these forums as i personally believe in UFOs and i suppose "Aliens" in that sense. I love watching UFO hunters and former UFO files on the history channel. I have always wanted to see a UFO myself. (in the "extraterrestrial" sense)

Well Chewey, "You ventured into the epitome of the Conspiracy forums of relevance and truth seekers of such discussions!!"
I too am a big fan of the above mentioned TV shows, they are truly mind boggling at times.
As for the rest of your obligations, well, "You have done very good so far with this submission and acknowledgement of the video being yours and coming forth." Relatively "Quick" I may add....

You had mentioned that it was approximately 6:40 PM when the vid was taken, you didn't hear a "Single" sound, even though it may have been a distance from you?

Beings you were there physically, "Did it seem to be 'Smoke' or 'Steam' when the object was noticed by you and your Dad?"

Originally posted by Allred5923
reply to post by Chewy_Solo

 

As for me myself, i may stick around these forums as i personally believe in UFOs and i suppose "Aliens" in that sense. I love watching UFO hunters and former UFO files on the history channel. I have always wanted to see a UFO myself. (in the "extraterrestrial" sense)

Well Chewey, "You ventured into the epitome of the Conspiracy forums of relevance and truth seekers of such discussions!!"
I too am a big fan of the above mentioned TV shows, they are truly mind boggling at times.
As for the rest of your obligations, well, "You have done very good so far with this submission and acknowledgement of the video being yours and coming forth." Relatively "Quick" I may add....

You had mentioned that it was approximately 6:40 PM when the vid was taken, you didn't hear a "Single" sound, even though it may have been a distance from you?

Beings you were there physically, "Did it seem to be 'Smoke' or 'Steam' when the object was noticed by you and your Dad?"

No i didnt hear anything. I thought it was smoke. As smoke from rocket launches is usually white anyway.

reply to post by Chewy_Solo


In your own personal opinion Chewey, "Do you think it was a "Missile" "Rocket" or "Airplane"??"

I understand where phage is coming from as I have seen aircraft contrails that have at first appeared to be missile launches. However, there are restricted air corridors across the state of Florida used for cruise missile testing, as well as NASA launches and recoveries. One of the biggest being the one that the shuttle uses to land at Kennedy.

The way to find out if this was a missile launch or simply a jet contrail is to check flight space restrictions for the first of January. If it was in fact a missile test, then they have to restrict airspace along the flight path, at the launch site, and at the target or landing site.

I am not sure where to find this information on the net, unfortunately, but I am going to send a note off to Weedwacker, as he may be able to find it for us.

I think I found the NOTAMs for the US. I am not sure if these cover all restrictions or not, so take them as you will until we hear from someone with more specific knowledge on the subject. The only thing even listed close to that date is closures over Tampa/St Petersburg, which take effect in February, and an airshow in Panama City FL on the 6th & 7th. It might also remove them once the period is over, so this might have dropped out already.

NOTAMs

I have sent off a note to weed, so hopefully he can chime in on the topic, but its looking like it might just be a normal contrail so far.

[edit on 1/5/2009 by defcon5]

I saw the same thing thing when it was like 8 yrs old, I lived around travis in CA but it was coming from down around fairfield had greenish glow to the smoke and moved slow (took a long ass time) and then shot to the left curved up and disappeared i was at a party so everyone saw it in its how I got into ufos and stuff

There is a reason that the Southern Region of Florida was chosen to be the Launch Center, for all of NASAs Launches.....If you do not comprehend WHY, then you will never understand how space travel works.

reply to post by defcon5


defcon!!! Yup! I know what NOTAMS are...

I will try to read them, and get back to ya!!!

Didn't wish to sound like Sarah Palin, 'back there'...ya betcha!! Just came out that way, by accident!

reply to post by weedwhacker


Sorry, I did not mean to imply that you didn't know what they were, which was why I asked you here. I thought from your U2U that you misunderstood that it was a Chemtrail/Contrail thread. I don't see any Rocket launches listed under the Florida NOTAMs, so I am guessing that they drop off as soon as they go out of effect. Is there somewhere that we can find an archive that will show rocket launch restrictions from the 1st?

Originally posted by Allred5923
reply to post by Chewy_Solo

 

As for me myself, i may stick around these forums as i personally believe in UFOs and i suppose "Aliens" in that sense. I love watching UFO hunters and former UFO files on the history channel. I have always wanted to see a UFO myself. (in the "extraterrestrial" sense)

Well Chewey, "You ventured into the epitome of the Conspiracy forums of relevance and truth seekers of such discussions!!"
I too am a big fan of the above mentioned TV shows, they are truly mind boggling at times.
As for the rest of your obligations, well, "You have done very good so far with this submission and acknowledgement of the video being yours and coming forth." Relatively "Quick" I may add....

You had mentioned that it was approximately 6:40 PM when the vid was taken, you didn't hear a "Single" sound, even though it may have been a distance from you?

Beings you were there physically, "Did it seem to be 'Smoke' or 'Steam' when the object was noticed by you and your Dad?"

I agree 100%! I am very proud of this fella! It isnt everyday (or ever really) that people can back up their claims. This dude did!

I am most impressed and elated about this. I do not impress easily.

Alex's Dad ROCKS! ( I dont know your name )

reply to post by defcon5


Hey defcon5,

Don't know how to read them , but ran across this report for a NOTAMS status:

Issue Date : December 31, 2008 at 2048 UTC
Location : Tampa, Florida
Beginning Date and Time : February 01, 2009 at 2100 UTC
Ending Date and Time : February 02, 2009 at 0459 UTC
Reason for NOTAM : Temporary flight restrictions for Special Security Reasons
Type : Security
Replaced NOTAM(s) : N/A
Pilots May Contact : Tampa (TPA) TRACON, 813-878-2528, 813-371-7748

tfr.faa.gov...

Issue Date : December 31, 2008 at 2046 UTC
Location : Tampa, Florida
Beginning Date and Time : February 01, 2009 at 2100 UTC
Ending Date and Time : February 02, 2009 at 0459 UTC
Reason for NOTAM : Temporary flight restrictions for Special Security Reasons
Type : Security
Replaced NOTAM(s) : N/A
Pilots May Contact : Tampa (TPA) TRACON, 202-267-8276

tfr.faa.gov...

Issue Date : December 31, 2008 at 1954 UTC
Location : Tampa, Florida near ST PETERSBURG VORTAC (PIE)
Beginning Date and Time : February 01, 2009 at 1500 UTC
Ending Date and Time : February 01, 2009 at 2100 UTC
Reason for NOTAM : Temporary flight restrictions for Special Security Reasons
Type : Security
Replaced NOTAM(s) : N/A

tfr.faa.gov...

So, Weed and defcon, "Is this the answer we have been looking for, or is it just regular every day events?"

Originally posted by Little One

Originally posted by Allred5923
reply to post by Chewy_Solo

 

As for me myself, i may stick around these forums as i personally believe in UFOs and i suppose "Aliens" in that sense. I love watching UFO hunters and former UFO files on the history channel. I have always wanted to see a UFO myself. (in the "extraterrestrial" sense)

Well Chewey, "You ventured into the epitome of the Conspiracy forums of relevance and truth seekers of such discussions!!"
I too am a big fan of the above mentioned TV shows, they are truly mind boggling at times.
As for the rest of your obligations, well, "You have done very good so far with this submission and acknowledgement of the video being yours and coming forth." Relatively "Quick" I may add....

You had mentioned that it was approximately 6:40 PM when the vid was taken, you didn't hear a "Single" sound, even though it may have been a distance from you?

Beings you were there physically, "Did it seem to be 'Smoke' or 'Steam' when the object was noticed by you and your Dad?"

I agree 100%! I am very proud of this fella! It isnt everyday (or ever really) that people can back up their claims. This dude did!

I am most impressed and elated about this. I do not impress easily.

Alex's Dad ROCKS! ( I dont know your name )

I am Alex actually. My account and such.

And as of what i thought the object was... I already stated that i thought it was a missile.

There is also a large Coast Guard station in key west.

As for these structures we saw on the ocean...

We were sailing back after anchoring at the Marquesas for a night. What i saw in the binoculars almost looked to be a structure. It could pass off as a cargo ship BUT what was odd is what could have been the truck trailers, were all stacked at the same height BUT were separated between each stack of about half the width of the stacks. What was even odder, is that in between those gaps you could see beyond another stack, but this stack was hazier then the first, suggesting that it was further away, which doesn't make much sense as they were all the same height. I did not see any super structure of what could be a ship such as the command deck or any curved shape like a boat. It almost looked like a platform.

[edit on 6-1-2009 by Chewy_Solo]

Originally posted by Chewy_Solo
As for these structures we saw on the ocean...

We were sailing back after anchoring at the Marquesas for a night. What i saw in the binoculars almost looked to be a structure. It could pass off as a cargo ship BUT what was odd is what could have been the truck trailers, were all stacked at the same height BUT were separated between each stack of about half the width of the stacks. What was even odder, is that in between those gaps you could see beyond another stack, but this stack was hazier then the first, suggesting that it was further away, which doesn't make much sense as they were all the same height. I did not see any super structure of what could be a ship such as the command deck or any curved shape like a boat. It almost looked like a platform.

[edit on 6-1-2009 by Chewy_Solo]

Sounds a bit like a container ship. They often don't have much superstructure. Not sure about the "hazy" part, different color container perhaps?



[edit on 1/6/2009 by Phage]

It seems that going back to who ever posted the sea launch seems to have something. If you look at this liknk to the website it gives you a pattern of hos the missle takes off. It seems to follow the SAME EXACT patern.

www.boeing.com...

This is coming from the ocean. The only confusing part is that thier launch pad is in the pacific ocean. This seems to be over the Gulf of Mexico. That I cant explain.

p.s. I've never seen a video where a ufo leaves a smoke trail. Dont aliens use anti-gravity propulsion or something like that?

reply to post by Alphadog


If this video is of a rocket it has a very strange flight profile. The video is 7 minutes long and picks the object up after it has been flying for a while.

The flight profile shown on your link shows an altitude of 70km at 2:30 after launch when the first stage separates. 70km is almost 230,000 feet. Cirrus typically form at an altitude of 25,000 feet. If this were a ballistic or orbital launch, the rocket would have passed through the clouds very early in its flight. Also notice that the rocket burns continuously throughout the flight.

Here is a titan IV launch. Notice that the rocket is no longer visible after less than 3 minutes. Also notice that the flare is visible the whole time the rocket is visible.


[edit on 1/7/2009 by Phage]

Originally posted by Phage
Also notice that the [Titan] rocket burns continuously throughout the flight.

And produces large amounts of smoke. The subject vehicle must have a collosal fuel capacity to burn for at least 7 minutes (but clearly much longer). And all it produces is water vapour and doesn't get above 25,000 feet.

WG3

reply to post by Allred5923

No I think those NOTAMS are for something relating to Gasparellia 2009, which is a bunch of events at the end of January and first week or so of February. They don’t even go into effect until February 1&2.

The ones we need have already dropped off, if they ever existed to begin with. So we would need to find an archive of them for the last month.

Thanks Phage, AlphaDog and Defcon5 for this thread.

(apologies to Def, for my lack of clarity)

I think we can all agree that rockets launched from the Earth's surface (in today's technolgy) use a combination of liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen. I also expect all will know that the combination of those two volatile elements will react with great amounts of energy, and whilst producing thrust, through the engine nozzles, as directed for the missiles' guidance, will also result in the exhaust of H2O....pure water.

Hence, the condensation, in the atmosphere of the Earth, because of the tremendous heat and resulting effects....

Now! Switching from the discussion of rockets, and their propellants, let's look at your normal airliner.

Airliners DO NOT use liquid hydrogen and oxygen as a fuel, I don't wish to imply this. Jet engines use a fuel that is very similar to diesel fuel, more closely affiliated to kerosene, just to help people who are familiar with these fuels to understand.

BUT!!! The effect of the heat of the exhaust, whether out of the back of A JET ENGINE, or out of the tail-pipe of your car on a particularly cold day, the result is the same --- the heat EXPANDS the air, then it suddenly cools, and condensation forms....

IT IS THAT SIMPLE, folks!!!

(EDITING to try to stay 'on-topic')...I'm having difficulty believing that a 'launch facility' exists in Key West, since I've been to the Keys I cannot imagine how anything of that magnitude could be concealed.

I won't rule out a possible 'sea-launch'....something I have no knowledge of, just speculation....

Hint to all! --- There is a serious reason for the locations of launch facilities
as close to the Equator as possible, and the reason why they are usually launched 'Eastward'. Can anyone guess why? (And, please, do NOT use Google or Wiki!!!)

Hinging on my last question, couldn't a possible Launching Platform, far from prying eyes, be constructed out in the Pacific Ocean??? Ever heard of 'Midway' Island????? Or, any of the various Islands that exist West of Hawai'i....and past the International Dateline????

Well, I've asked a lot of questions, and I hope it spurs soime new debates...best to all! Happy 2009!!!!

[edit on 1/8/0909 by weedwhacker]

Really guys...honestly. It seems there have been some pretty technical and objective explanations which point to an airplane. There doesn't appear to be the same for the rocket/missile theory.

It seems that a lot of people here that are posting are hoping so bad that this is some super secret deal that they are not listening to sound logic. They are honestly taking speculation and conjecture(Allread5923) over sound reasoning (WS3, weedwhacker, defcon5).

As far as....
Allred5923
"Lockheed Martin Corp., Missiles and Fire Control – Dallas, Grand Prairie, Texas, was awarded on Dec. 29, 2008 a $52,483,900 firm/fixed/price contract for Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System Full Rate Production III ... "
--Please get your facts straight instead of speculating - this is commonly known as GMLRS - its a GPS Guided Artillery piece - This type of equipment is used against bad guys in CENTCOM. Quoting a military contract doesn't give credence to your statements. Incorrectly quoting a military contract makes you look like an idiot.

Sea Launch is used in the Pacific Ocean to launch space vehicles as close as possible to the equator - for orbitology reasons (no Delta V inclination changes needed to go out to a Geostationary Orbit - common to communications satellites – it also requires less fuel to launch from the equator because you have more speed there than at higher latitudes). To put Sea Launch in the Gulf of Mexico would defeat the purpose and would also require someone to pay for it to move to the gulf and someone to sensor the entire operation - btw, Russia is a Sea Launch is a partner - kinda shoots whole "show of force to Russia" theory down doesn't it?

Just because the contrail/"smoketrail" appears to be coming from the water doesn't mean it is. The earth is round. Things can come into view from over the horizon (OTH). If you are standing on the beach and you look out to the horizon, you can see approx 12-15 miles, that is it. Sooooo, because there was no sound, the "launch" HAD TO BE farther than 15 miles away -> therefore it was OTH. Therefore, there is NO WAY to know whether it came from the surface of the ocean or not. So, I am sure you (the people claiming this to be a sea launch missile) you are all imagery analysts and you already knew that.

40+ years of watching planes is the lamest attempt at passing oneself off as an expert that I have seen in a long time. You are not an expert. These photos create a bit of an optical illusion.

This comment -
Beings you were there physically, "Did it seem to be 'Smoke' or 'Steam' when the object was noticed by you and your Dad?" IT DOES NOT MATTER. Are these guys trained analysts - do they have some experience in launch systems / aerospace? Unless they attest to their expertise, I think there "assessment" is irrelevant. Listen to WG3 on this one…please.

@easynow
"i will speculate that the Miltary probably has some type of Ship also to launch Military satellites so that could be another possibility" This comment makes you sound like an idiot. No facts just SPECULATION (you even conceded that). Wargame this possibility. How in the heck is ANYONE going to keep something like a SeaLaunch platform secret. /facepalm

It is wishy washy conjecture that makes this community look foolish to the outside wolrd. When you make wild claims about secret military launch platforms out in the water and reference military contracts for artillery pieces you sound like idiots.

If you want to be taken seriously, get some formalized training in Orbital Mechanics, Space Systems, Launch Systems, etc. Yes, to understand how launch vehicle and missiles actually work, it is ...Rocket Science. WG3 has tried to explain this concept and you are refusing to listen to him because you are BIASED. You are not objective. You want to believe it's a covert operation so you cast aside rationality. Ever heard of Occam's razor?

reference me as caliscubafan

Really guys...honestly. It seems there have been some pretty technical and objective explanations which point to an airplane. There doesn't appear to be the same for the rocket/missile theory.

It seems that a lot of people here that are posting are hoping so bad that this is some super secret deal that they are not listening to sound logic. They are honestly taking speculation and conjecture(Allread5923) over sound reasoning (WS3, weedwhacker, defcon5).

As far as....
Allred5923
"Lockheed Martin Corp., Missiles and Fire Control – Dallas, Grand Prairie, Texas, was awarded on Dec. 29, 2008 a $52,483,900 firm/fixed/price contract for Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System Full Rate Production III ... "
--Please get your facts straight instead of speculating - this is commonly known as GMLRS - its a GPS Guided Artillery piece - This type of equipment is used against bad guys in CENTCOM. Quoting a military contract doesn't give credence to your statements. Incorrectly quoting a military contract makes you look like an idiot.

Sea Launch is used in the Pacific Ocean to launch space vehicles as close as possible to the equator - for orbitology reasons (no Delta V inclination changes needed to go out to a Geostationary Orbit - common to communications satellites – it also requires less fuel to launch from the equator because you have more speed there than at higher latitudes). To put Sea Launch in the Gulf of Mexico would defeat the purpose and would also require someone to pay for it to move to the gulf and someone to sensor the entire operation - btw, Russia is a Sea Launch is a partner - kinda shoots whole "show of force to Russia" theory down doesn't it?

Just because the contrail/"smoketrail" appears to be coming from the water doesn't mean it is. The earth is round. Things can come into view from over the horizon (OTH). If you are standing on the beach and you look out to the horizon, you can see approx 12-15 miles, that is it. Sooooo, because there was no sound, the "launch" HAD TO BE farther than 15 miles away -> therefore it was OTH. Therefore, there is NO WAY to know whether it came from the surface of the ocean or not. So, I am sure you (the people claiming this to be a sea launch missile) you are all imagery analysts and you already knew that.

40+ years of watching planes is the lamest attempt at passing oneself off as an expert that I have seen in a long time. You are not an expert. These photos create a bit of an optical illusion.

This comment -
Beings you were there physically, "Did it seem to be 'Smoke' or 'Steam' when the object was noticed by you and your Dad?" IT DOES NOT MATTER. Are these guys trained analysts - do they have some experience in launch systems / aerospace? Unless they attest to their expertise, I think there "assessment" is irrelevant. Listen to WG3 on this one…please.

@easynow
"i will speculate that the Miltary probably has some type of Ship also to launch Military satellites so that could be another possibility" This comment makes you sound like an idiot. No facts just SPECULATION (you even conceded that). Wargame this possibility. How in the heck is ANYONE going to keep something like a SeaLaunch platform secret. /facepalm

It is wishy washy conjecture that makes this community look foolish to the outside wolrd. When you make wild claims about secret military launch platforms out in the water and reference military contracts for artillery pieces you sound like idiots.

If you want to be taken seriously, get some formalized training in Orbital Mechanics, Space Systems, Launch Systems, etc. Yes, to understand how launch vehicle and missiles actually work, it is ...Rocket Science. WG3 has tried to explain this concept and you are refusing to listen to him because you are BIASED. You are not objective. You want to believe it's a covert operation so you cast aside rationality. Ever heard of Occam's razor?

reference me as caliscubafan