Originally posted by YoungStalin
Im offended. When Calpton's son fell out the window was it the Bible's fault? I think this is nothing but bigotry. How many of you have really read any scientology books. Actual books not just typing it into google and looking at the hate websites.

BTW, that's Clapton--I was confused at first. You know, I thought about that one, too. There is no way I would allow a toddler to wander the house alone with cleaning people present.

Still, considering "Crossroads" (famous Robert Johnson blues tune about selling his soul to the devil in order to play guitar covered by Eric Clapton) are we sure it would be the Bible that we blame?

Hmmmm.

Anyway, I would blame not the Bible but the Christian denomination that told parents not to treat their child for cancer and then the child died. Sure thing.

Okay...here's some tech for people interested. These are actual exercises courtesy of Freezoners.


TR 0: Bullbait
[ Sit with eyes open for hours, not moving laughing or twitching, "confronting" coach while s/he tries in every way to make you react. ]

TR 1: Dear Alice
[ Student reads dialogue from Alice in Wonderland at coach until they get the comm across without embarrassment. ]

TR 2: Acknowledgments
[ Coach reads dialogue at the student and he must acknowledge (stop) what the coach said using one of the following "acks": okay, good, thank you, alright, or fine. ]

TR 3: Duplicative Question
[ Student asks coach repetitively, "Do birds fly?" or "Do fish swim?" Coach tries not to answer. Student repeats the question using this repeater phrase, verbatim: "I will repeat the auditing question." Continued until the student knows he will be asked questions until he answers them. Coach tries to physically leave the "session" and the student must restrain the coach and place him or her back in the chair, and repeat the same question until answered. Drill is passed when student can always get his questions answered. ]

TR 4: Preclear Originations
[ Same as TR 3 but coach mixes the comments with important "case" information like, "My foot suddenly started hurting." and "I'm getting upset, let's stop." Student has to get the coach to continue using stuff like "Oh that's pretty normal, lets just continue and see what happens. I'll repeat the auditing question. *Do* birds fly?" ]



Now, objectively...this stuff is not "bad". TR0 is considered to be the auditor's tool for "confronting" a preclear (pc, raw meat, uninitiated mark, etc.), but when done correctly it is a mind-control technique that opens up the subconscious mind for programming. quote from a former Scientologist about these exercises:

TR 0 induces an eyes-open alpha state, building on OT-TR0. ... The long hours of staring at a fixed object caused hallucinations in me. I didn't realize at the time that this was a sign of hypnosis. The sensory deprivation is incredible. You're working hard on not FLUNK!ing, and having to start over. The Scientology staff coach does a good job of FLUNK!ing you for no apparent reason (at least in your own normally socialized mind), creating all sorts of uncertainty and confusion.

Perhaps it was true - thinking about what I felt and saw was causing the trouble. My "cognition" (spoon-fed to me by the Staff) was that I should stop thinking about this situation, even though it was contrary to all my social conditioning. So, I stopped evaluating. I suspended disbelief. I turned off my mind. Of course, this played right into my hypnotists' hands.

Reports of the "thousand mile stare" common to Scientologists are a direct result of this training routine. However, the Scientologist isn't staring at you, he's staring through you. Rather than intimidating you by "confront", the Scientologist is paradoxically in a non-confront. He is aware of your presence, but he's in alpha state and has his mind turned off. Trying to talk to someone like this is like trying to teach a pig to sing - it's frustrating for you and it annoys the pig.

TR0 forms the basis for nearly everything a Scientologist does, be it reading a book, talking to someone, or solving a problem. So, you're trained to go into a trance by the friendly folks at the Org from Day 1, conditioned to accept suggestion while in alpha state as a normal way to learn, and trained to suspend disbelief by Pavlovian command. The general public are hereby advised to steer clear of this exercise.

Now, again...it seems to be effective in creating a groupthink mentality, and humans, anthropologically speaking, are happier in tribes so perhaps this methodology has the power to make some people very happy and secure. Tom Cruise looks crazy happy.

**shrugs**

Again, whatever floats your boat. Just not for me.

Originally posted by aleon1018
I think it's somewhat suspicious that Jett was cremated. I seriously doubt he wanted this death for his son regardless and I wouldn't ever be interested in treating him and his family that way.

I agree. I have always gotten good vibes off Travolta (unlike Cruise). I believe he is absolutely devastated.

It is sad he may not have had better care for his seizure issues, but I wonder if that would have increased his son's quality of life by much.

I agree. Even with seizure medication you may still have them. There are positives and negatives with everything. Some people lose "something" when on meds. My cousin must take seizure meds for epilepsy, and I would never urge her not to, but she also has limitations due to the meds.

I think it is up to the parents what is best for their children. Most parents love their kids and know what's best for them. But it is also up to those with knowledge to help educate people that do not have that knowledge. Simply saying that Big Pharm is evil doesn't make it true.

I am suspicious of Big Pharm because there is no money in cures only treating symptoms, but on the other hand I know the stats on bringing a drug to market. It takes about 8-11 years now to bring a drug through clinical trials that is a lot of money that is spent for something that only MAY pan out. They spend a lot of money and do deserve to make some of it back.

Some people have expressed wonder that celebs like tom Cruise, Beck, and Travolta would join scientology. Its important to remember that the "stars" are treated very, very differenly in the cult than the rank-and-file lower-level drones. Hollywood stars are seen as very important assetts to scientology, and thus they are wined, dined, and given the read-carpet treatment. They have special private consulors and access to top leadershp, who flatter them and fawn before them about their "amazing spiritual advancement" and so on. They are given luxury accomidatons, special travel arrangements, the finest food.This is because Scientology sees these people as vital marketing tools to convince others of the cult's legitimacy and attractiveness. Treating them well is like making a solid marketing investment.

For example, the story goes that at one scientology meeting, Tom Cruise expressed a lifeling desire to run throuh a field of daffodils hand in had with his lover. So the curch made 500 or so low-level brainwashed cult-zombies do nothing for a week bt plant tens of thousands of daffofil bulbs in a field in northern Californa. They then took Cruise and his girlfriend (I cant remember if he was still with Nichole Kidman at the time or if it was somebodu else) blindfolded on a luxury private jet for a "suprise treat". When they got off the jet, they found themselves in a beautiful field of daffodils created especially to filfill Cruise's childhood dreams. Meanwhile the shaven-headed lower level drones are forced to slave away for gruel and who knows what else. The bigwig hollywood scenesters see none of it: to them, scientology is nothing but a luxuious ego-stroking machine.

[edit on 6-1-2009 by silent thunder]

It was said on the news that cremation is typical for Scientology and apparently no one tried to stop it through the courts. There does seem to be some conflicting stories of his alleged injuries. How can someone die with an alleged hematoma and then later not have one? Must have been some other case.

I think it's too late now to do anything about it either. I have to wonder if the medical examiner was also a Scientologist?

Jett was cremated in the Bahamas, and the Autopsy report remains private, If Jett had died in Florida, the autopsy report would have been considered a public document..,,,,

Originally posted by aleon1018
It was said on the news that cremation is typical for Scientology and apparently no one tried to stop it through the courts. There does seem to be some conflicting stories of his alleged injuries. How can someone die with an alleged hematoma and then later not have one? Must have been some other case.

I think it's too late now to do anything about it either. I have to wonder if the medical examiner was also a Scientologist?

Why should they try to stop it? The official autopsy was done and apparently the findings were clear.

I do not think there was any hint of foul play, and I rather doubt if a scientologist performed the autopsy. The Bahamas is a former slave colony, as such it is ripe with crime and corruption. I think everything is legit, however I am sure greasing a few palms would be just as effective as using another scientologist for the autopsy.

Originally posted by Terapin
Jett Travolta dies in the Bahamas the other day when during a seizure, he fell and hit his head on the bathtub. Could this have been prevented? Perhaps so.

Possibly.... i have been using a chair in the shower for the 11 years since my brain hemorrhage making me prone to seizures and just plain falling over from vertigo.


the young man went through life with a natural & common outlook of invincibility... he would have felt emasculated by stitting on a shower chair
especially if it was actually a Jaccuzzi he was using

Originally posted by aleon1018
I think it just brings up more questions and doubt about their sincerity. Proper PR may have been to wait to cremate the body to prove innocence?

I personally prefer cremation. Also if I just suffered a devastating loss, I would not give a damn about "public opinion" or trying to appease the publics morbid curiosity.

Originally posted by Sonya610

Originally posted by aleon1018
I think it just brings up more questions and doubt about their sincerity. Proper PR may have been to wait to cremate the body to prove innocence?

I personally prefer cremation. Also if I just suffered a devastating loss, I would not give a damn about "public opinion" or trying to appease the publics morbid curiosity.

And probably exactly why they chose to do it right away. I'm really not so concerned with the details for the public as I would be to know myself.

My brother and father were cremated and I felt cheated with my father not having a viewing. But the absence of the physical body being cremated seems to bring closure that much faster and the idea of waking up in a coffin? Throwing roses on a tiny little box at the cemetary seemed ridiculous though.

I felt we should have kept the ashes at the house until our mom was also gone. The grave sight is in another state and we've only been back there once in two years.

We took my mom to see his grave and she refused to get out of the car. I guess she knows the next time we visit there will be for her anyway.I still feel she didn't have closure and is just waiting her turn.

Sorry for your loss.

Originally posted by aleon1018
I felt we should have kept the ashes at the house until our mom was also gone. The grave sight is in another state and we've only been back there once in two years.

Dead bodies generally never look as good as the living, and I can understand why some don’t want that to be the “last memory”. I am not sure if it helps with closure, it becomes more "real" but that may not be a good thing if it remains the lasting memory.

I think most American burials are a waste of space. Unless there is a true family plot where people WILL visit, and other family members will be interned, the graves are typically not visited for very long anyway. People move away, or family is scattered. The Europeans are typically much smarter, graves are rented and not purchased in most of their cemeteries, they maintain it for 20 or 30 years, and when no one visits they grave goes to another.

The Victorian Era created some remarkable cemeteries, they had a different view of death and they created their cemeteries as parks with beautiful crypts and monuments to encourage visitors. Those are certainly worthwhile. But most modern graves/cemeteries are not like that at all.

I'll tell you.
Travolta has been a favorite actor of mine for a LONG time.
But to be honest, I lost ALL RESPECT for him with his choice to follow Scientology and his latest gig as an Overweight Singing and Dancing mother in 'Hairspray'

Now what has happened to his family and child is a tragedy.
But when I first heard about it in the news, I had a weird feeling inside like that isn't really how it went down. I mean I have no evidence or proof other than a very strong gut/instinct feeling.

Anyone else feel the same??

I hadn't really paid much attention to his personal life until this happened. I'm curious about the details anyway and if I was psychic, I would know all the answers.

I would rahter not pass judgement on this just yet. I was going to post a youtube video, but I'm locked out I guess because it now says private?

The rest of their videos are also missing. I think youtube does this sometimes anyway when there's a death? idk Some of their videos weren't very accurate either.

Okay if he was christian,his son died and was cremated would this be an issue? since when do people have to make autopsy public record because of your religion? I swear, a Scientologist does anything and its "look that happened because he is a scientologist". Meanwhile prisoners on deathrow can get christian services before the execution and nobody brings it up. For the record freezone is NOT scientology. Just like christians, catholics, Protestant, baptist are not all the same. But this is pointless you guys watched zeitgeist and google searched scientology probably read at most a page or 2 of somthing LRH wrote and spent an hour reading the anti-scientology web sites, so you must have a PHD on the subject. Its the same as going to the KKK website to learn about black history and going to a neo-nazi website to learn about judaism.
Anyone can argue their knowledge on the subject the most common is
1. saying that you know former scientologist then putting quotes around anything you want for example a former scientologist i talked to said "i did 400 jumping jacks everyday"
2. Saying that you read a book then just going to another website and pasting a quote up saying you remembered it.
deny ignorance