if you clone someone do they have a soul?

I can not say with 100% certainty, but what i think is that the spirit is the program and the brain is the processor. What happens when the processor we have in a computer is too slow for the program we use?

That is exactly what happens, or at least thats what i think happens. The information that is in our spirit can not fully be processed by our brains. Sometimes, there are people which are born with the capability to understand and use more information from the Spirit, because their processors (brain) is much "faster" than usual.

As to whether something that is alive has or doesn't have a spirit?

It is my opinion, that everything that "lives" has a spirit. Even a person that has become a vegetable, still has a spirit, it is just the body that is not functioning properly.

Originally posted by Muaddib
As to whether something that is alive has or doesn't have a spirit?

It is my opinion, that everything that "lives" has a spirit. Even a person that has become a vegetable, still has a spirit, it is just the body that is not functioning properly.

I'll buy that. Spirit may very well be a matter of degree rather than an on/off type thing. I've always called this the George Lucas or Lucainsian model since "The Force" as discribed in the Star Wars sagas is a pretty good approximation of this theory.

muaddib are think you are very correct in your views..can the brain produce energy by itself ??? you said no ....that is correct it cannot but there is a portal at the back of the brain known in the secret science of yoga as the mouth of god which allows for the inflow of if you would like to call it "cosmic energy " to revitalize the brain and cells of the body....some are able to tap more energy than others thru certain practices and produce incredible effects on the body.....
i find your statements on this thread to be the most enlightened of all statements and its not say to there arent valid remarks here ...there are ....i just see alot of insight in yours.

[Edited on 8-4-2004 by watcheroftheskies]

Ok, Watcher, bringing it back on topic, would a clone have this portal/conduit for this mystical energy you speak of?

Thanks watcher, i think there are very insightful people in these forums too, you being one of them, and i agree with you there are "switches" in our brains that when people learn how to use, will tap into other "energies" or what is called collective conciousness.

Why not? Do test tube babies have a soul? I would say yes. Yeah I know, even test tube babies are created from and egg and sperm, but essentially even with egg and sperm all we are really talking about are carriers for DNA. I do not believe the soul is located in eggs or sperm. Exactly when and how a fetus becomes �alive� has been a spiritual debate for a long time and it is at the heart of the abortion battle.

So, in my opinion, egg and sperm or a piece or hair or skin, they are all just DNA carriers. They are cells that can produce fleshy bodies � I would guess that the soul is produced when the mind is formed.

Edit: Typos



[Edited on 8-4-2004 by zerotime]

Zerotime, you are right. The real question is what it's been all along. Is there a soul and how/when is the link established? The cloning question is just the latest application of the same question.

yes clones would have theese mystical portals just as anyone else and i might add the word mystical only refers to things that man is not able to explain at this point in time with his rationale..

There are certain vortices in the body which can be tapped they start at the bottom of your spine and work all the way to the crown of your head ....there are seven of them

Anything alive has a soul, so yep a clone would have one too

The question was: if you clone someone do they have a soul?

My stance on the issue: A cloned person will not be any different morally from the rest of the �birthed� humanity. Trying to prove the existence of the soul is like trying to prove the existence of God. The existence is measured in faith.

This is what i think.

Eggs and spermatozoids are not only carriers of DNA. They are the essence of both the male and female energies. When combined, they form, and make possible, for human life to exist. But the energy these two have are not a spirit.

I would agree with you that we don't know exactly when a spirit enters a fetus. But once egg and spermatozoid are united and begin the process of forming a fetus, a human life is beginning to form.

So imo stopping this process is killing a human life.
When people take the life of an adult, are they killing a spirit? no, they are killing the vessel for that spirit. But then again, this is my opinion.

i think that he who decides to go foward with the cloning process is giving up something karmically, such as the soul...maybe for trying to alter nature/play god.. for the ego has met it's limits- there has to be some type of karmic punishment.. therefore, maybe their soul or part of it is given to the cloned indivual by some type of natural karmic energy transferrence...there has to be consequences...and it wouldn't be right for the indivual being cloned to be the who has to pay-

There's plenty of soul to go around still. We could start making dupes and they would have no problem getting a soul. All they would have to do is have an experience or two and they would be filled with soul. That's all our souls really are anyway, right? Just a collection of experiences. I don't think 'soul' is a substance or an object, rather an energy that pervades the entire universe. We just have the proper receptors to use that energy. Like our minds and our senses. There's something that just attracts soul to a body. That's why were born with it. In 50 years, we'll have some dupes running around and nobody will be the wiser. No one would say, "Hey buddy, what happened to your soul there?" Nah, they'd be just like the rest of us, 'cause they'd have to deal with the world just like the rest of us. Reaction to stimulus. I bet a clone could be a good guitar player. That kind of denotes a soul, doesn't it? As long as they practiced long and hard, listened to great guitar players and tried to emulate them, and then practiced some more, that would give them a soul just by proxy. Soul isn't a gift from the Big Head, it's a universal constant. Nobody owns the rights, no one holds the key, no one hands soul out like at the great cosmic soul kitchen. You want some more? Well have some more! Hey! You're letting your soul get cold. Eat it or I'm gonna throw it out.

It's the weekend...
DeltaChaos

Yes, the soul would be the recipient and the fruition of the experiences of a person, but the spirit is the eternal energy which is aware.

I don't completely agree Pandora. We alter nature all the time just by being part of it. As for playing God, well, don't children always try to imitate the parent? I think of it as flattery in a way. We think the act of creating life is so cool and special that we want to be able to do it too. But there is a dark side to that as well, as creation of a thing implies a measure of control over it. This is where the bad karma instance comes in. It's like most things if you think about it. It's all in how you use it.

Originally posted by Pandora
i think that he who decides to go foward with the cloning process is giving up something karmically, such as the soul...maybe for trying to alter nature/play god.. for the ego has met it's limits- there has to be some type of karmic punishment..

Why is that? if playing around with nature gives some sort of punishment, then by the act of a human planting seeds, or a tree we are playing around with the natural forces.

As for a "God/Godess" this is part of faith.

There is no need for a God for the universe to be eternal or for us having a spirit.

Just something to add to the debate.

Do human bodies have souls or do souls have human bodies?

if you look at a burner on a gas range and see the individual flames coming from the burner and then look at the source of the indivdual flames there is one source where they emanate from a collective flame ....the souls are the little flames that are made up of the universal, infinite, inexorable divine conciousness or what ever name you have for it ....

There are new souls and old souls...some souls may take a million life times to reach the source..older souls are usually more spiritually evolved than new ones but not always some souls may reach the goal in a very short time...
We are living in phenoumena while the inexorable is present here it is not of this world while being in the world....the inexorable is in the noumena,where only are ultimate selfs reside...once that ultimate self is experienced even once while you reside in this present incarnation it will make worldly things seem quite mundane and you will only want to get back to that point where you can experience that ultimate self and burn away the dross of physical existence.

People have this strange idea that in order for the spiritual to exist or for a person to be spiritual they have to believe in a creator.

Well, i don't believe in a creator which created things out of nothing, but I am a spiritual person.