Paul ~ Inventing a new saviour

I have got to be off to bed, now.
Thanks, everyone!

Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by Christ!

 

Man has inherited sin.
So, how do we atone or did Christ become the Atonement?

I have explained how man has inherited "sin".
"Sin" as it is said in the gospel of John is "unbelief in Christ".
I have been explaining in these last few posts how unbelief in Christ translates into *insanity*.
Ask anyone in the world if he is Christ and see what I mean.
Ask any "Christian" and see what I mean.
Ask any Christian three times at night if s/he is Christ.
I predict s/he will deny it three time before the dawn.
The whole world is the effect of the denial of Christ.
The world functions to deny Christ.
All in the world are complicit in the denial of Christ.
All in the world can trace their ideological belief systems back to the very beginning of time.
The beginning of time is the denial of Christ.
Time begins because of the denial of Christ.
Christ is eternity.
Time is the denial of eternity.
See what I mean?
Anyone in time is in denial.
Everyone in time has *inherited* unbelief in Christ.
So,
Everybody has inherited "sin".
Everybody is insane.
All have fallen short of the glory of the Son of God through unbelief.

The way to atone is to begin by accepting Christ as he is, and nOt as you would have him be
This means lay down all your judgements about who or what you think Christ is.
Christ is not any single person.
Persons are of the *many*.
The *many* must surrender to the One.
So,
The many must "lay down their life"...their so-called "life".
The "life" of the many is false.
The LifE of the One is the truth.
Lay down your many lives for the One Life that is the Truth.
This is to atone.
To atone means to become one again.
In oneness we find our innocence.
In separation we believe in our guilt.
We will beleive we are guilty as long as we believe we are separate.
Why?
Because separation destroys the One, and we feel guilty about it.
So,
We have inherited a feeling of guilt since before the foundation of the world.
The One was "slain"..."before the foundation of the world"
This means the world of the many destroys the world of the One simply by its very existence.
The world of the many does not really exist.
That is the "good news".
It exists only as a belief, rather, an unbelief in Christ.
Out of unbelief arises belief in "the world" which is a belief in the destruction of the Son of God.
So,
The world is Christ crucified.
The world is dead.
The world is a dead Christ.
The world is a tomb for a dead Christ.
The world is not real.
So,
The world is Christ...asleep.
Life is Christ...awake.
The resurrection is the awakening.
The awakening is the atonement.
The atonement is the regathering of the dispersed Son of God who went prodigal.
Prodigal means "AWOL".
While AWOL, the Son of God is dispersed, fragmented, scattered to the four winds, so-to-speak.
The atonement is about rejoining.
There is only one way to join.
Lay down your seperate life and surrender to the One.
This is the atonment.
The Son of God will return to his Father the same way he left.
The Son leaves as One, and will return as One.
While "away", the son appears as *many*.
The many are false.
The One is the truth.
The atonement is to return to the Father.
And this is the meaning of "righteousness".
See John 16.
Righteousness is to return to *Our Father*....like Jesus.
Our "Kingdom" is nOt of this world.
This is not our home.
When away from home, and things are going badly, the only "right" [righteous] thing to do is go home.
Nothing else makes any sense whatsoever.
All else is insane.

Christ!



[edit on 22-1-2009 by Christ!]

Originally posted by badmedia
But as for your claim of other religions. It is when a person claims ONLY they are christ, that is what the anti-christ does. What you say about those other religions also applies to your own as well.

Amen.

It is only when a single individual, or, a single nation or tribe is singled out as Christ that what is anti-christ is established as "the truth".

Jesus is singled out.
Therefore, whomever is promoting Jesus as all of Christ and only Christ, they are promoting the separation of the One.
Whomever makes Jesus *special* is promoting differences.
Differences are all about being seperate.
Separation is what enables *specialness*.
And specialness is what ultimately betrays the Son of God and crucifies him...since before time.
Specialness leads to pain and suffering.
Paul was *special* and suffered for it.
The world is all about each one as being *special* and *unique*.
And this is anti-christ.
Whomever makes Jesus *different* promotes what defeats the gospel of Jesus.
Whomever says Jesus is Christ, and means that you or I am nOt Christ, is promoting the unholy separation of the Holy One.
These are all tricks.
These tricks come from the unholy gOd.
The unholy gOd rules the world.
The unholy gOd makes the world and rules all minds within it, decieving them.
These tricks damn the believers in the unholy gospel to stay in the land of separation and separate individuals.
And this is truly hell if ever there was hell.
The good news is that hell is a belief, and can be unbelieve any time any one desires oneness more that unique differences that make each one special.

Christ is the One.
Christ includes ALL.
Christ is All That Is.
All that is nOt Christ is a mask over Christ.
The universe is all that is nOt Christ.

When I say that I am Christ, i do not exclude.
Exclusion is really what the unholy is all about.
Paul promotes an unholy gOd which excludes, divides, differentiates, ranks and separates.
This is the same gOd of the OT.
This is not the true meaning of "Holy".
Holy is the whole.
Holy is the totality.
Christ is the Holy One because Christ is the whole one...Everything.
The unholy is the seperation and exclusion of everything.
The world excludes every thing from every thing.
The world, if one but looks around, is the very picture of separation.
None of it is the truth.
We must learn to see beyond it, by desiring instead to see the One.

Christ!




[edit on 22-1-2009 by Christ!]

It is truly amazing to finally see or have your heart touched by the one. A wise teacher of mine (at least he told me he was wise ) once told me that you need a focus. Whether that focus be Christ, Sai Baba, Krishna or g-d (defer to OP), its ultimately important and unimportant at the same time... let me explain;

Importance - a focus that brings you closer to some knowledge of the greater will be much more effective than that which further seperates you from the greater. So if u believe that someone gave their life for you (a very medieval concept in my honest opinion) and you believe that, then thats all that matters.... for now.

Unimportance - because allegedly none can truly know the face of the one, then all focuses are incomplete at best.

The OP framed her original statements in a manner that was in her context and focus. That is awesomely awesome that she has found that which many of us... including myself, are still looking for.

Everyone has an absolute g-d given right to believe that which we will, buts as my own $0.02 I wholeheartedly agree with the OP - paul was careless at best (interchangeable with stupid) and downright culpable for the last 2 thousand years of religious conflicts... with the blood of the innocent... dripping from his hands... at worst. I believe a combination of the 2. He was careless, stupid and manipulative - and that is not even going into the historical argument that paul had with the other surviving apostles over the gentiles.

Kudos to the OP for voicing this. Kudos to all others who have voiced their views on this...

.... life is about relationships and exchanges....

David

Originally posted by Christ!Christ is the One.
Christ includes ALL.
Christ is All That Is.
All that is nOt Christ is a mask over Christ.
The universe is all that is nOt Christ.

someone once said that there are two things of importance... That which you know and that which you dont.... im assuming that is where you are coming from.



David

Originally posted by daptodave

Originally posted by Christ!Christ is the One.
Christ includes ALL.
Christ is All That Is.
All that is nOt Christ is a mask over Christ.
The universe is all that is nOt Christ.

someone once said that there are two things of importance... That which you know and that which you dont.... im assuming that is where you are coming from.

David

I am coming from humility.
The humble are willing to admit that they do not know that they may then be taught.
I have admitted I do not know, and still admit it.
I compliment that with a desire to know....all.
So,
I am taught.
I am taught well.
I learn quickly.
I teach as i am given certainty.
Where does the certainty come from?
GoD knows!

Understand that we are shifting from a place of ignorance and belief and moving back to the realm of knowing and knowledge.
Knowledge is total or not at all.
One could argue that if we are not experiencing total knowledge, we are not experiencing it at all.
Meanwhile, if we are humble, we can be taught to remove the obstacles that prevent us from knowing.
I have removed a few, and am in process of removing whatever remains in the way.
When all is out of the way, the "Lord" will "return".
The Lord returns to open our eyes.
What we then see leads us back home to knowledge.
Being aware of where one is along the journey home is helpful if one wants to make the journey with GoDspeeD.
If, for example, we say we "see" when we don't,
then,
We remain blind.
Many travel this path, leading the blind into ditches of wasted time.
To learn, one must admit he does not know.
But then, he must have a desire to know everything.
If one does not want to know everything, he does not want to "know thy Self".
I assume you are traveling the humble path as well.

Christ!




[edit on 22-1-2009 by Christ!]

oh i suppose you could call it humble if i know as a fact that I know nothing.

Second lines are fun.

David

Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by justamomma

 

Well, when I got saved, I prayed the prayer that the preacher on TV said to G-d.
I said "I believe in Your Son, that He died and rose again the third day. Please, forgive me."
Bam, I became a new person!
I felt Jesus put His arms around me and I cried like a baby!
[edit on 22-1-2009 by Clearskies]

I read a book "Late Great Planet EArth" Hal Lindsey in 1982 or so. Said the prayer at the end of the book and next morning, "bam", new perspective.
The perspective was simply this:
"This is nOt your home".
So,
I went looking for home.
First stop: Two years in a fundamental bible church eating up the scriptures old and new.
Next stop: Five years in the RCC.
I was never willing to say I understood it, when in fact, I did not understand.
I tried to understand. Scratched my head.
Pretended to understand.
Postured.
Posed.
But was never so attached to confusion that I could not let go.
Finally, i began to trust my deepest intentions, to understand the truth.
I lost the fear of going against the grain, so-to-speak.
I let myself question my superstitions.
In retrospect,
I see that it was an opportunity to *look at* what was *an obstacle* to getting home.
Once the obstacle is looked and discarded with understanding, we can proceed.
I was never inspired to go to a fundamental bible church with any specific instructions.
It was my idea to go.
In retrospect, my "born again" experience was simply the first signs of the awakening of a sleeping mind.
Salvation is for the confused and insane.
So,
If the good Lord honored only sane prayers said by the understanding, nOt many/any would be saved.
The "sinners prayer", if answered, is nOt an endorsement of Paul's theology.
The "sinners prayer" is for those who feel guilty, fearful, alone, and separated from GoD...and are therefore insane, and in need of sanity.
The truth is that innocence is the truth.
The truth does not need blood sacrifice to be the truth.
The truth is always true.
Guilt is not the truth.
Paul makes it the truth.
Paul is something to be looked at, understood, and looked beyond.
There is a little bit of Paul in all of us "sinners".
So we look at Paul and repent.
Paul shows us the way by showing us the false way...the long way home.
Paul shows us what nOt to do...what nOt to believe.
Paul suffered.
Paul shows us how to suffer.
Let us not believe that guilt is the truth.
So,
There is now no need for blood sacrifice.
Never was, in any way, shape of form.


Christ!




[edit on 22-1-2009 by Christ!]

Originally posted by daptodave
oh i suppose you could call it humble if i know as a fact that I know nothing.

Second lines are fun.

David

I would clarify that a bit.
It's humble if we admit that there is something about a self-concept that does not know.
As we identify with a self-concept, we do not know...since that is how a self-concept functions.
The solution then, is to beware that we have been identifying with what does not know.
But,
As we identify with what knows all, we begin to learn.
When what does not know is "dead" or otherwise cleared out of the way, then we return to our rightful inheritance of all-knowing.

A helpful approach might be to admit that what we think we are does not know.
Then,
Have faith in what we are.
Have faith that we do in fact know all in truth.
Let what we are teach us the way back.
Most of its teaching is going to be about how to lay down what does not know.
When it is layed down, knowing knows what to do, the very instant we are finally ready to truly know.

People overlook that Jesus was on a need-to-know basis.
He taught as he was taught, speaking the words his "Father" gave him through the "Holy Spirit".
He did not claim to know all, such as the exact "time" of the "end of the world".
When we surrender what does not know, we "know" what the Holy Spirit knows we must know in order to finish our journey home, and take the rest of the world with us.
There is a "plan" that only the Holy Spirit knows.
Only the Holy Spirit knows the whole plan.
We may know our part of the plan.
Jesus knew his part and fulfilled it perfectly.
It is only as we surrender to the One who knows that we know how to fullfill what only each of us can fulfill for the whole of salvation.
In this way, the salvation of the whole world rests on each of our shoulders, as each one fulfills his part.

True humility is to accept our Self as is, in all our glory.
Arrogance would deny our Self, and assert a self-concept as the truth instead.

Christ!



[edit on 22-1-2009 by Christ!]

Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by justamomma

 

From that website;

"It is of movement and of rest", stated Christ (Gospel of Thomas, Nag Hammadi Library), as a description of spiritual attainment. Christ was pointing at the aliveness and action of the female aspect of ‘being’, united with the stillness and inaction of the male aspect of non-being. It is only by being both that we attain cosmic, androgynous wholeness, and therefore merge into the eternal, androgynous all.
This is the undivided bath that is Sophia and Christ.
Sophia is manna, the heavenly body.
Christ is the wine, the heavenly spirit.
J. Haas

Sophia means 'wisdom'. I have studied this 'cosmic christ' stuff in the past.

That particular passage in Thomas is spurious. About 30% percent of Thomas is spurious...added later after he died...beheaded in India.
Likewise, among the four pop gospels, less than 20% of what are said to be the words of Jesus are actually of Jesus.

Stephen was one of three contributors to the sayings gospel "Words of the Master". This is the elusive "Q Source". It has been destroyed, as it, like the sayings gospel of Thomas, revealed that the emerging church organization was drifting far from the authenticity of the earliest memoirs. Thomas' was almost destroyed. "Words of the Master" was destroyed. Don't ask me how I know.

The exclusion of the gospel of Thomas from the canon shows that among the apostles, there was an idealogical rift. The rift was mainly about what is the meaning of the resurrection. Thomas had a hunch it was about the mind. The others believed it was about getting a glorified body. Paul took the glorified body path, and so did Peter.

In order to justify this path, the crucifixion needed to be interpreted as a blood sacrifice, as if to be a kind of fulfillment of OT doctrine. It seemed logical that Jesus be the "real" passover lamb. But, sacrifice is only for those who believe in, and still desire a separate path...to remain separated...ranked...honored...and glorified as a body. Bodies are illusions of imagination[ie. "graven images"]. Deep down, we feel we must "pay" for our illusions, to somehow wash the guilt we feel for wanting them.

As they interpreted this way, they completely lost sight of the teaching message of the crucifixion. The crucifixion teaches the truest genesis of the world. If the world is true, it's genesis begins with an attack on GoD via an attack on the Son of God. This is an attack on the truth. So, the world is a kind of war. The first casualty of war is the truth. The rest of history has been propaganda.

The resurrection, properly understood, is the true exodus from the world.
Awakening is the way to exodus.
Thomas understood it is more about awakening in one's mind.
The rest believed one must die, and be resurrected into a glorified body.
This viewpoint, believe it or not, is actually a legacy of the school of Pharisee.
It was modified to "fit" Gentiles into the hoped for resurrection of bodies.
Otherwise, it is the same garbage in a different wrapper.

Christ!



[edit on 22-1-2009 by Christ!]

Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by badmedia

 

No, the old testament teaches us not to have graven images, nor bow down to them and while I have pictures, none of them are of Jesus.

Have you ever considered that "man" is a "graven image"?
After all, man is made in the "image" of its maker.
And so, perhaps we can also consider man's maker a graven image.
Understood rightly,
The maker of man is an idol in the mind of Christ [prodigal son], graven of imagination.
As it imagines, this idol desecrates the truth of the *holy temple*.
The mind of Christ is his *holy temple*.
Welcomed into the mind, and put upon a pedestal, the idol virtually destroys one's mind, while it is worshipped.
There is but one idol desecrating the holy temple of the Son of God.
But,
That idol is *many*, or, "Legion".
The many are a manifestation of untruth.
Man is a manifestation of *many*...of "Legion".
So, man is an idol, made in the image of an idol.
Man is indeed a graven image, graven [imagined] in the mind of the prodigal son.
And,
The idol is indeed worshipped with flesh and faith.
The idol is worshipped as "G-d", usurping *Our Father* his place.
In Our Father's place is an idol.
We call the idol "father".
Every man traces his physical and ideological geneology back to this idol.
So, Jesus said, "call no man father".
This means, the term "son of man" is not exactly a term we want to identify with.
We want, instead, to identify with the term Son of God.
To identify with the Son of God is to deny the fatherhood of the idol, which is nOt GoD, but calls itself by the name of GoD.
That is why, when the Pharisee boasted of their human geneology, Jesus rebuked them and said their father was the devil, the father of all lies.
Beware then, the maker of man is the father of all lies.
Do not bow down to it, even it should offer you to gain the whole world.
Our Kingdom is not of this world.
On the other hand, do whatever you want.
Freedom is freedom.
We are free to be free, or free to be slave to an idol.

Christ!





[edit on 22-1-2009 by Christ!]

Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by badmedia

 

You didn't answer my question about Yeshua.
Was He a liar?
Does EVERYONE have G-d in them?

The Kingdom of God is "within you".
This is a oneness statement which means that in truth, the Kingdom of God is contained "within".
This means that in truth, our circumference, so-to-speak, encompasses all of GoD.
This means that we are nOt a body.
A body encompasess a few bones.
So,
A body must not be our truth.

Separatists want to plug into the Kingdom to energize their bodies.
They want to have a more fulfilling existence as separatists.
This is not "the Way".
The Way is always away from what is nOt true.
The world is nOt true.
So,
The world is a dream.
The Way is away from dreams.
So,
The Way is to wake up!

What is nOt the truth is symbolically *outside* the gates of the Kingdom.
Outside the gates there is "gnashing of teeth".
Teeth do not belong in the Kingdom.
Man lies through his teeth because man is a lie which does not exist.
If a man's lips are moving, chances are, he is lying through his teeth.
Likewise, if elves speak, they must be lying because they do not exist.
Likewise, if a snake speaks in a book, think twice about believing it.
And if a book speaks of *many* as the truth, it is gnashing words, making word-salad.
The *many* must gnash their teeth on *many* words to *justify* their existence, and call it "liFe".
But,
"liFe" outside the gates of the Kingdom is really just *lies for feelings*.
As such,
"liFe" outside the gates of the Kingdom is an *experience*.
It is an experience of *freedom*.
We are free to be free, or free to be slave to an idol.
The idol has many kingdoms.
Each kingdom has its own gate.
Each gate has "teeth".
As each gate upons, death proceeds outward on horseback.
The Oneness of the true Kingdom will prevail against the *many* "gates" of hell.

Christ!



[edit on 22-1-2009 by Christ!]

Originally posted by justamomma
reply to post by Christ!

 

If G.d can change the rules, then why the HECK would anyone ever believe anything He said? Why wouldn't He change them again? This is just illogical and shows that the "New" Testament has had too much of man's hand in it. You all can believe man.. I choose to believe G.d when He lovingly warned us in Malachi (the last book of the TANAKH) that He DOES NOT CHANGE!!! Get a clue.

Because GoD does not change, the world of man does not exist.
GoD does not really "become flesh".
That would be a change.
Neither does GoD "create" flesh.
Why?
Why should GoD created anything other than perfection?
Cannot GoD tolerate an equal?
Cannot GoD share?
Why does Reality need an "image"?
Reality does not need images.

So,
Flesh does not exist.
Flesh is a concept.
Flesh is a mind-trick.
Flesh is a symbol.
Flesh is an image.
Flesh is an image of imagination.
Flesh is a graven image.
Flesh, and its actions, are thoughts in the mind of an idol.
Flesh, and its thoughts, are thoughts in the mind of an idol.

The Son of God is nOt really an idolater.
So,
Man does not exist.

Change is something imagined.
When we think we can change the changeless Son of God, we *make* time.
Time is simply the idea of perpetual change, one minute changing into another, and every moment, nothing the same as it was before.
And we say,
The only thing that remains the same is change.
This is an echo of the past, an echo of an ancient faith in change.
We have inherited ancient beliefs about the changless Son of God...
...all of which damn us to work the mines of time, paying for every minute, and drawing a paycheck they call "rest in peace" every so often.
This is nOt LifE.

The New Testament, properly understood, is about debunking the Old Testament, and breaking its spell over our minds with the gospel of the One Truth.
The Gospel dispells the ancient spell that makes a story "the truth".
The Gospel dispells the notion of separation and exile and guilt and pain and suffering.
The Gospel turns the tables on "the accuser" which makes guilt "the truth".
Hebrew genesis makes guilt the truth.
Hebrew genesis accuses and points fingers.
This story has never been true.

The Truth is always true.
It does not change.
The Truth is: Guilt is a lie.
The world of our idol has never been true.
"We" have never been true.
There has never been *many* different.
There has never been *many* special.
There has never been a "Legion".
There has never been separation from GoD.
There has nevef been anything but the One.
Believe it or not.

Paul is all about the Old Testament.
You are all about the Old Testament.
The Tanakh is nOt the Old Testament.
The Tanakh is a symbol of the Old Testament.
The Old Testament is about:
Exile, dispersion, multiplicity, separation, guilt, crime, punishment, payment, sacrifice, special "chosen" status, death, betrayal...ect.
The Old Testament includes the whole history of the world.
The experiences of the "house of Israel" is the experience of the whole world.
The twelve tribes symbolize every nation.
The twelve apostles symbolize every person.
So, Israel is taken as a symbol of the travails of the "prodigal son".
Everyone in the world is confused about its genesis.
Everyone in the world is hostage to an insane gOd.

The prodigal son has said in his heart:
"All I know is i am nOt the Son of God".
And so,
he makes himself another "father"...an idol of imagination.
As the "prodigal son" makes himself to be the son of an idol,
the idol transforms the son into "man".
In this way, the Son of God seems to "become flesh".
As flesh, he calls himself, the "son of man".
The story of the "son of man" is the story of every man who was ever born to die in a world of separate individuals.
The "son of man" is every man, woman and child.
Jesus symbolized the plight of every man, woman and child.
But,
Jesus also symbolized the destiny of every man, woman and child.
The son of man is truly the Son of God, and shall know himSelf again.
To know himSelf again, he must not call any man "father".
Likewise, he must nOt call man's maker, "father"
When the "son of man" knows himSelf as the "Son of God", the many shall return to the innocence of the One.
The son of man never was, but for an imagined journey into hell and back.
Only the Son of God is the truth.
The son of man shall pass away with all the world.
The son of man was never the truth.
We will see the Son of God in all his glory when we are willing to open our minds and open our eyes.
We will *be* the Son of God, when we are willing to accept, completely, the Truth.
When we accept the Truth about ourSelf...we will be saved from the false about ourselves.


Christ!




[edit on 22-1-2009 by Christ!]

Wow, this thread is moving faster than I can keep up with it. I think now is the time for all to take a deep breath and realize that this is a discussion. Please don't let your frustrations take over and cause snippy replies. I am totally enjoying this and I'd hate to see a mod close it because we can't stay on track.

Now I'm off to answer some of these.

By the way, For those of you who don't know, I'm a she, not a he.

BadMedia
Sorry, the true path is narrow and few do find it. The broad path of death and destruction is the one many people follow. She is not a wolf, and I never accused her of such. But she is a mislead sheep, as are many.

Mislead Sheep? I personally doubt that she is mislead. Look at what she has provided excellent examples and the TRUTH of the word and the Truth by God. The true word of God was written by the OT, but his son, Jesus, brought the word of truth. Jesus spoke the word of his father,in essence he was the word made flesh.

[edit on -06002009-01-22T11:04:16-06:00312009bAmerica/ChicagoThu, 22 Jan 2009 11:04:16 -0600, 1 by TheMythLives]

reply to post by darkelf


I completely concur with this lovely suggestion you have made I would hate to see it be closed as well.

Originally posted by TheMythLives

BadMedia
Sorry, the true path is narrow and few do find it. The broad path of death and destruction is the one many people follow. She is not a wolf, and I never accused her of such. But she is a mislead sheep, as are many.

Mislead Sheep? I personally doubt that she is mislead. Look at what she has provided excellent examples and the TRUTH of the word and the Truth by God. The true word of God was written by the OT, but his son, Jesus, brought the word of truth. Jesus spoke the word of his father,in essence he was the word made flesh.

[edit on -06002009-01-22T11:04:16-06:00312009bAmerica/ChicagoThu, 22 Jan 2009 11:04:16 -0600, 1 by TheMythLives]

Since the Word made flesh is known as the Son of man, you can also then say Jesus was in the same catagory as the other prophets, yes?

Ezekiel and Daniel were also called Son of man when the Word spoke through them.

To all who have thanked me for posting the references that Paul used, you are very welcome. Gotta love the internet.

I was raised in a fundamental Baptist church. When I finally accepted Jesus as Messiah and my Lord and Savior about ten years ago, I had much to unlearn. I didn’t read or study the Bible at first because I thought I already knew it all. But the more I read and study, the more I realize how little I truly know. I had to come to the Bible without my preconceived notions and with an open mind. I rely on God through His Spirit to give me understanding and truth. I question everything to see if it lines up with the truth. The law required at least two witnesses. I too require that as I study and interpret what I read. If I can find the same thing in another part of the Bible, it speaks as a witness to what I had previously acquired.

As a Christian, I feel that it is not only necessary to study the New Testament but to study the Tanakh as well. Jesus was a Jew. He often spoke of the Law and quoted Old Testament Prophets.

I am slowly learning Hebrew because I find it important to understand the writings of the Tanakh. Meanwhile I use all the available tools to understand what is said, who it is said to and why. I have read some of the Talmud to get the Jewish point of view. I understand that the Jews are still awaiting their Messiah where Christians believe that Jesus is that Messiah.

Discarding the Tanakh as unnecessary can only lead to anti-Semitism. I believe the entire Bible both Old and New Testaments are important as they complete each other. I find the New Testament concealed in the Old Testament and the Old Testament revealed in the New Testament.

The very character of Hebrew lends itself to multiple interpretations. There are many instances of scriptures being both literal and allegorical. I have been studying the Bible a long time and I still find new insights. God is not a God of confusion.

I honestly believe that the God of the Tanakh is the same God of the New Testament. Prophecy is more than prediction and fulfillment. It is also pattern. When you can begin to see the patterns I think you can start to get the deeper meanings.

When we speak of faith, we are talking about our dependence on God and His Word. Faith is not just belief in God. The Bible says that satan and his angels believe in God. We have to do more than just believe; we have to act on that belief. That action is what we call faith. That is why James said that faith without works is dead. If we say we have faith but don’t obey God then we are liars.

Paul said that we don’t rely on works alone to be saved but we rely on the grace and mercy of God. This is the gift that God has given to us. He sent His one and only Son to die for our sins. But not only did He suffer and die, He was resurrected and is alive.

I understand that some of you don’t believe this. I am writing this to show what, how and why I believe. I believe that Paul taught the message of Jesus Christ to the best of his abilities. Before his conversion, he persecuted and killed many Jews who had become followers of Jesus. After his conversion, he began preaching the same message that weeks before those he persecuted preached. But that is my opinion, take it for what it is worth.

reply to post by justamomma


Yes, but Jesus was the word. Those prophets were not the WORD, they may have spoke the word, but are not the word made flesh. Jesus was that word made flesh. The prophets only spoke it. Jesus spoke, lived and was willfully acting through it.

reply to post by justamomma

Originally posted by justamomma
reply to post by Clearskies

 

Hmmm... so again, I ask.. where is it stated in the Laws of G.d that a human being on the list of appropriate sacrifices.

You may not agree with this but it is one of my favorites:

Genesis 22
7And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
8And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.Source

God will provide himself a lamb. One way to look at this is literally. God did provide a ram for the sacrifice. But there is also a pattern in this story. I believe that this is a prophecy that was fulfilled when God provided Himself as the sacrifice.
Believe it or not, I learned to look for patterns and prophesy in the Tanakh from a Rabbi.