Paul ~ Inventing a new saviour

Originally posted by amatrine
Interesting. I have often wondered this myself.

For some reason it does not seem rite to pray to Jesus but to God himself.
It has been a war inside me trying to figure what is correct.
Jesus never claimed to be the son of God. He just said I am what you say I am.
The bible says we are all sons of God.

He does claim to be the messiah and he very well could have been FOR THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL (not the world). Never though was he meant to be worshiped as though he was a god. YOu are sensing the truth.

Just for clarification, there is only one people (generalized to mean group) that have been declared (by G.d... if you subscribe to the G.d of Israel that is) as the sons of G.d. Most don't like to hear this, but it is the truth. If one is going to base a religion off of another's text, wouldn't it be wise to understand that text through the eyes of the ppl it was given to?


[edit on 2-1-2009 by justamomma]

at first reading the title ,,, i figured you were talking about ron paul


i was wrong


but yes ron paul is many of ours--- political saviour

Originally posted by shortywarn
at first reading the title ,,, i figured you were talking about ron paul


i was wrong


but yes ron paul is many of ours--- political saviour

Agreed!!! It is certainly a shame that not enough could recognize this fact, huh?

[edit on 2-1-2009 by justamomma]

Just for clarification, there is only one people (generalized to mean group) that have been declared (by G.d... if you subscribe to the G.d of Israel that is) as the sons of G.d. Most don't like to hear this, but it is the truth. If one is going to base a religion off of another's text, wouldn't it be wise to understand that text through the eyes of the ppl it was given to?

Because the bible said so? and those who sat in their temples and got fat and rich said so?

some popular tard can sit on a throne and say that god is whispering in his ear to slaughter countless millions... and they all fall in line, becasue of their ignorance.

this is why history repeats itself becasue people are not listening to causality/GOD, but those rich jerks who only want more gold and fame.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
Because the bible said so? and those who sat in their temples and got fat and rich said so?

some popular tard can sit on a throne and say that god is whispering in his ear to slaughter countless millions... and they all fall in line, becasue of their ignorance.

this is why history repeats itself becasue people are not listening to causality/GOD, but those rich jerks who only want more gold and fame.

I don't disagree with this. There IS much manipulation in the name of their gods. I am not trying to convince you and I do not expect you to believe in G.d just because I do. In fact, I NEVER encourage ANYONE to believe in Him. Until such time that He reveals Himself to you, there should NEVER be a reason to accept something on blind faith.

Again, this thread is not to prove the existence of G.d. It is meant to disprove a false god.

I would never encourage anyone to accept anything that they had no personal proof of, but to rather follow after knowledge alone.

Edited to add: follow after knowledge that is gained through experiences, that is. Never follow something blindly.

[edit on 3-1-2009 by justamomma]

So what is this knowldge you came upon.... i can easiliy explain mine... why cant you explain yours... stop hiding behind a book. Your running from one pit to another and i would like to prevent your next fall.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
So what is this knowldge you came upon.... i can easiliy explain mine... why cant you explain yours... stop hiding behind a book. Your running from one pit to another and i would like to prevent your next fall.

Ouch dude! I am not hiding behind a book. Again, I did NOT start this thread to argue His existence. If I wanted to do that, then I would go to one of the threads that are up currently for just that purpose. I don't share my personal knowledge of Him because it was just that... personal. The proof I asked for (MY proof) was met in a way that *I* can't argue with and that was enough for me.

Edited to add: I am not asking you to believe in anything. You have misunderstood my intent it seems.

[edit on 3-1-2009 by justamomma]

But these same people that you are saying paul mislead belived just like you do... blindly saying that what they asked of their god was met and so they believe... with no logic with no reason... just a hole that they sit in and stare at the wall not explaining what they know or saw that convinced them.

They were mislead just as you now are, because they cant explain this truth which means that it isnt a truth at all.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
But these same people that you are saying paul mislead belived just like you do... blindly saying that what they asked of their god was met and so they believe... with no logic with no reason... just a hole that they sit in and stare at the wall not explaining what they know or saw that convinced them.

They were mislead just as you now are, because they cant explain this truth which means that it isnt a truth at all.

Their god is *loosely* based on the G.d of the Hebrew texts. Based on the Hebrew texts, their god is not G.d. Their premise is wrong. My premise came through something outside any text. You describe it *almost* perfectly in what you have written. It was very personal. The only reason I came to believe in the G.d of Israel was because that is where my path led me.

If one were to say that their path led them to Jesus as god, that is fine and it is certainly their decision. Just make sure that the Hebrew texts are thrown out as a premise for the validity of that god. Make sense to you now? Don't piggy back another's text for your beliefs when those texts do not support your belief. (the *your* is generalized).



[edit on 3-1-2009 by justamomma]

Would that then mean that your unwillingness to explain your personal private truth is because it is vailid to be throw out.

I would let you see my whole life through my eyes if i could.. my every thought and experiance.. You could ask me anything and i would tell you hte truth... i am not ashamed of my mitsakes or the pain that i have caused others because it is a light unto the path i am on.

Did you pray for your son to be healed of an illness? did you pray for a zit to be removed and it was gone the next day? what is it that is so private that you can not admit it to me.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
Would that then mean that your unwillingness to explain your personal private truth is because it is vailid to be throw out.

I would let you see my whole life through my eyes if i could.. my every thought and experiance.. You could ask me anything and i would tell you hte truth... i am not ashamed of my mitsakes or the pain that i have caused others because it is a light unto the path i am on.

Did you pray for your son to be healed of an illness? did you pray for a zit to be removed and it was gone the next day? what is it that is so private that you can not admit it to me.

There is nothing that I have done that I would not be willing to admit. It wasn't anything like that. You have misconstrued the reason that I don't share it in this thread. This is not the thread for it. This thread is strictly for the purposes of showing that Jesus is not a god that is supported through the Hebrew texts.

If you would like to send me a U2U asking me these questions, then I would be more than happy to tell you why I know that G.d exists. Your question is NOT the point of THIS thread.


Edited to add: My knowledge of G.d is a personal one and if anyone would like to know how I came about gaining this knowledge, then they can ask me in U2U. It is not something that is up for debate.... particularly in this thread.

[edit on 3-1-2009 by justamomma]

But isnt it.... How did paul mislead all these people... with private truths that he would not explain further than "god reveled to me".. or "god said"...
He never opend up these understandings to scutiny and in such a wall was build between understanding and reality.

a cloth to cover the holy of holys.... temples with levels and chambers that are secret and require you to pay money to see.

they neither saw the truth in it themselves nor allow those around them to see.


We now have preachers that say "i prayed and i was healed" or "i prayed for this person and they were healed" and if you werent healed then god didnt find it to be in his will......

isnt that a wall to understanding and knowledge. EVERY religion is guilty of this. Their rituals that contain no logic, only superstition.

its this hiding and this lack of aplication of logic and causality to these events that makes them more and more powerfull.

Edit: if paul were here i would say the same things... he would go through the ringer just like this.

edit: the method of deception is more imporant than the lie itsself.... the former only deals with ONE falisty.... the later contains the solution to all deceptions.

[edit on 3-1-2009 by Wertdagf]

[edit on 3-1-2009 by Wertdagf]

Originally posted by Wertdagf We now have preachers that say "i prayed and i was healed" or "i prayed for this person and they were healed" and if you werent healed then god didnt find it to be in his will......

isnt that a wall to understanding and knowledge. EVERY religion is guilty of this. Their rituals that contain no logic, only superstition.

its this hiding and this lack of aplication of logic and causality to these events that makes them more and more powerfull.

Edit: if paul were here i would say the same things... he would go through the ringer just like this.

[edit on 3-1-2009 by Wertdagf]

I am not at all opposed to being through the ringer and there are many threads in which I have gone through such. This, AGAIN, is strictly to show how Paul's god can not be supported through the Hebrew text.


"isnt that a wall to understanding and knowledge. EVERY religion is guilty of this. Their rituals that contain no logic, only superstition."

There is much beauty in what you have said here. It shows you do not lack emotion.

I have not asked you to believe anything. I have not asked you to go through any rituals. I don't comply (yet) to the rituals of Judaism. It is now officially the "sabbath" and yet, I will be running errands and such in the morning. I can't tell you how to believe in G.d or what to believe. That is strictly a matter up to you to come to grips with.

Your need for me to prove my knowledge of G.d is your need; not mine. It is what you lack. I don't lack it, but I can't give it to you either. I wish I could, but I know that no matter what I say, it will not convince you. I know, because nothing ANY ONE else said could convince me.

[edit on 3-1-2009 by justamomma]

So if you cant convince people of anything... what is the point of this thread.... you could say that paul was misleading but that takes an understanding of what the truth is.

Somone could just say "god told him what to do and so he was right and perfect in everything he said, and it is all the truth becasue it was revealed to me by god".

there would be no disscussion because disscussion implies a possiblity of revealing a truth.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
what is the point of this thread.

wow... it is becoming quite redundant. I will answer your posts if they have to do with the topic; but now I am feeling like a broken record. This question has been answered directly to you already.

reply to post by justamomma


I see you are only referring to those writings that are in the bible and Not including the Thousands of other Christian writings that are Not included in the Roman collection of Greek and Hebrew writings, referred to as the bible today.

In the original writings the word church was never used instead the writings referred to the assemblies of Lights.

The bible is a Political ploy to rid the world of the teachings of the Christ.

Many of the writings have been bastardised by Roman Doctrine that all denominations of human churches today have come out of.

Essentially they all follow Roman indoctrination though they would deny this.

The Original writings were Not about Human primates but about Man which 9is the Name given to the Soul and Not the Flesh as A'Dam was.

Jesus said in the Gospel of Thomas....

Quote

39. Jesus said,

"The Pharisees and the Scribes
have taken The Keys of Knowledge
and Hidden Them.

They themselves have Not entered,
nor have they allowed to enter
those who wish to.

You, however,
be as wise as serpents
and as innocent as doves."

This has everything to do with your argument as it was The Scribes that put the bible together under The Roman Government.

The Roman Church is historically part of The Roman Government.

So your whole argument is based on the Humanisation of the writings that have been Bastardised by the Scribes and scholars of today.

The writings were in Parable form and had nothing at all to do with the flesh as Jesus said...

56. Jesus said,

"Whoever has come
to understand the world
has found
only a corpse,

and whoever
has found
a corpse
is superior
to the world."

If you really want to know the truth, then may I suggest you start studying the Original Greek text, before they we bastardised by the Roman church.

Notice there is absolutely no reference at all to the Roman church or any other denominations in the bible.

If you don't want to do this, then compare bibles with each other in detail, from many different denominations, and you will be shocked in the subtle differences between them.

Incidentally the "Word" God is a Geometric algorithm.

You can find this, if you go back into the Original Zionic Written Language.

There is another Geometric Algorithm too which cant be uttered because of the Letters....

The Letters are INZ superimposed on each other that used to be on the front cover of many of the early Roman bibles...

This was the first Algorithm that The True Mind Created and the Roman church referred to it as The Word...

When you discover this you will understand that the arguments around religion is pointless because the knowledge today has been completely misrepresented by the churches and public.

In saying all this I still am more aware of the origins of the Earth and what has Created all things.

Read an interesting Christian writing called....

The Thunder Perfect mind.

This Writing is reported to have been written in the time of Jesus Christ, and is repeated to be the words of Jesus Christ portraying Himself as He truly is....

I will still watch your thread with interest though, and see how it goes...

Oh by the way I am not into new age religion at all...LOL..Sorry..

[edit on 3-1-2009 by The Matrix Traveller]

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller



Not sure if you think I was saying you were into New Age or if you just threw that in for clarification. Either way, it seems to me as though you would fall under the gnostic teachings. Which, IMHO, is better than worshiping a man as god... though, my belief differs in that I can see that we are obviously not G.d (though some are OF G.d) and I don't believe we, on our own will ever be G.d... this includes Jesus.

I don't subscribe to the greek texts as they were littered with paganism, thus, my discontent with the christian religion in which I was raised. NOW, don't take that as I disregard everything in them, because I do not. I think there is much truth in realizing that one will find G.d when He is ready to be found. I DID NOT find G.d in the Hebrew texts.. I merely recognized Him there after He allowed me to find Him.

I agree with some of the things that Jesus said, though I don't subscribe to his being a god in the flesh. I think he was definitely enlightened, but I think that there was manipulation that was applied to what we now consider the New Testament as to who he was and his role (or what his role COULD HAVE been).

There will never be ONE person that can save this world and the people here in it. There has not been, nor will there ever be. In that regard, I think it is time for people to start looking on an individual basis as to what they can do in their own life to change *their* world. G.d is NOT an explainable entity although He is always here. It is up to us to understand Him through the right "eyes" and "heart" and not to look for false hopes such as god men to save us. It is up to us and that was always the point.



[edit on 3-1-2009 by justamomma]

reply to post by justamomma


I would have to agree with you on 95% of what you have said.

You have only repeated my own words but in a different way.

Humankind today does Not understand the original "Word" G O D
as it was understood 5,000 years ago or so..

Over the Last 2,000 years Religion has been part of Government and the manipulation of people.





The original teachings involved Conceptual Geometry.....

I am Not, I repeat Not into Sacred Geometry so called, but Geometry is behind the All and the Consciousness of All.

But there is in Fact a Soul but Not in the way people think today...

It is very easy to make up a simple device to see The Soul and the Geometric workings in it...

It is very easy to study this Phenomena and come to understand the Geometric language.

Originally posted by justamomma
If one is going to base a religion off of another's text,
wouldn't it be wise to understand that text through the eyes of the ppl it was given to?

It made all the difference for me. Now I only read the Jewish Scriptures.
It's changed my life in good ways.
Great post!

Originally posted by asmeone2
What also could have happened is he was essentially the televangelist of the day, and grabbed onto Jesus's message and dissemenated a watered-down version that was quite sellable, at the expense of the true message

*had missed this one* Also could have been the case. There are many reasons that things could have turned out this way.

The one thing that we can be certain is that Jesus (christianity) was *not* based on the Hebrew texts (why is it attached except to claim that it is the basis); but the basis is by a wide margin, quite loose. When one goes to tighten those loose ties, you suddenly realize they CAN'T be tightened.

AGain, if one wants to believe Jesus was born of a virgin (based on Isaiah 7:14 which is an obvious misconstruing of the prophecy), buried, raised from the dead, and is coming again to rescue all those who had faith (only mentioned 2x's in the old text.. one in a negative context).... fine. I just call for their admitting that their god is based in paganism and not the Hebrew text (they can not show otherwise).



[edit on 3-1-2009 by justamomma]