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Originally posted by GoldenFleece
I urge everyone to read Arthur Koestler's The Thirteenth Tribe and decide for yourself whether this is a myth or not.
Mr. Koestler was an Ashkenazi Jew and took pride in his Khazar ancestry. He was also a very talented and successful writer who published over 25 novels and essays. His most successful book, Darkness at Noon, was translated in thirty-three languages.
As expected, The Thirteenth Tribe caused a stir when published in 1976, since it demolishes ancient racial and ethnic dogmas...At the height of the controversy in 1983, the lifeless bodies of Arthur Koestler and his wife were found in their London home. Despite significant inconsistencies, the police ruled their death a suicide...
[edit on 3-1-2009 by GoldenFleece]
Modern DNA studies on the Y chromosome of Jews worldwide have largely disproven the Khazar origin theory for the vast majority of Jews, including the Ashkenazi.
A 1999 study by Hammer et al, published in the Proceedings of the United States National Academy of Sciences compared the Y chromosomes of Ashkenazi, Roman, North African, Kurdish, Near Eastern, Yemenite, and Ethiopian Jews with 16 non-Jewish groups from similar geographic locations. It found that "Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level... The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora." According to Nicholas Wade "The results accord with Jewish history and tradition and refute theories like those holding that Jewish communities consist mostly of converts from other faiths, or that they are descended from the Khazars, a medieval Turkish tribe that adopted Judaism."
Originally posted by St Udio
in this mankind governed world order, the creation of Israel is not based on Genetic heritage...I understand Jews in Israel will accept most any, reasonable persons into the country as immigrants and to apply for citizenship.
"And after the Levites left, those from all the tribes of Israel, such as set their heart to seek the Lord God of Israel, came to Jerusalem to sacrifice to the Lord God of their fathers." (2 Ch 11:16)
So there were representatives from all tribes in the southern kingdom prior to the northern kingdom being sacked and exiled by Assyria, putting to rest the whole notion of "lost" tribes.
DNA research on Ashkenazi origins may shed some light on the mechanism of Jewish migration from the Southern Mediterranean to the Northern European regions. One study [[ref|Hammer]] indicates that the Y chromosome of both Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews are of Middle Eastern origin, similar to Lebanese and Syrian DNA types. Since the Y chromosome is only passed from father to son, it may be used to trace Jewish male origins. Another study of Ashkenazi mitochondrial DNA [[ref|Goldstein]] (mtDNA can only be passed from mother to child) allows the tracking of maternal origins. According to this study the mtDNA generally matched that of local European populations and not Middle Eastern populations. These studies would indicate that male Jewish traders moved from Middle Eastern and Southern European communities into Northern European communities and intermarried local females in those regions./
Remember, at the time Revelation was penned, the term 'Christian' was not in popular use, although Acts records it's first use in 1st century A.D. At that time, 'Christians' were still widely considered and called Jews, even the Gentile converts to 'Christianity.' This was prior to the Christian/Jew rift.
...to get rid of the report,Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations,called Christians by the populace...
As I have already explained, the point of bringing up the religious aspect was due to the fact that even if scientific evidence was not in favor of my case, Jewish converts are still considered Jews according to the Jewish law.
But I was wondering if it's the interest of the Jewish people to define themselves as a race and not just a religion.
1. It's easier to label someone as a racist than as a "religionist"
2. Races tend to have their own land and generally religions don't
For instance some "Palestinians" claim an Abrahamic heritage through Ishmael.
It is more PC to say "Arab" than Muslim.
how do yo feel about the claim that Ashkenazi people originally spoke what today is spoken by most Jews -Yidish. A Kazarian language not even related to Biblical Hebrew.
The fact that Yiddish was very popular among Jews before ww2 supports the argument that most of todays modern Jews have no genetic link to Abraham.