It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

For All Those Opposed To Questioning Obama's Eligibility

page: 1
4

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 2 2009 @ 10:28 AM
link   

The defendant in this hypothetical criminal prosecution can invoke the Sixth Amendment: namely, “In all criminal prosecutions the accused shall enjoy the right * * * to have compulsory process for obtaining Witnesses in his favor * * * .” Presumably, a properly represented defendant would subpoena Obama himself as the indispensable witness, requiring him to bring into court whatever records were in his possession or subject to his control that in any way evidenced, related to, or referred to the time, place, and circumstances of his birth, or to his citizenship, application for citizenship, renunciation of citizenship, or oath of allegiance in or to any country. This would include the original of his supposed Hawaiian birth certificate; every subsequent Hawaiian “certification of live birth” or like document created by public authorities; every other “birth certificate” or equivalent document whenever, wherever, and by whomever generated in the name of “Barack Obama” or any of his several other names; every document submitted to an educational institution that contained information or representations concerning his place of birth or citizenship; and so on. In the interest of expediting the process, the custodians of records in Hawaii would also be subpoenaed to testify and to produce all relevant documents subject to their control. To be sure, Obama himself might invoke a privilege against self-incrimination under the Fifth Amendment as the grounds for refusing to testify or to disgorge inculpatory papers. But custodians of public records in Hawaii or elsewhere throughout the United States have no such privilege. And no Hawaiian or other law of the States or the General Government purporting to make those records “confidential” can frustrate the Sixth Amendment.
newswithviews.com

Is this what you'd like to see happen? It WILL happen this way if it's not taken care of BEFORE his inauguration. Lawyers are just waiting for there to be a felony case that they can make a name of themselves with.

I really wish I hadn't started looking at this in the first place. I'm disgusted that it's gotten this far and every one of you should be too. When the POTUS can't ACT as POTUS because of fear, that's when he becomes a lame duck. If inaugurated before this is cleared up, we will have elected a lame duck!



posted on Jan, 2 2009 @ 12:54 PM
link   
Ok now I know you're out there... I've seen you...... where are you now???



posted on Jan, 2 2009 @ 01:04 PM
link   

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman
Is this what you'd like to see happen?


Sorry. I have a headache today and can't seem to get through your source.

Is WHAT what we would like to happen?

(I am not opposed to questioning Obama's eligibility, but I am curious about what this is about.) Would you mind reducing it to a few sentences? Thank you.



posted on Jan, 2 2009 @ 01:25 PM
link   
Since only 170 Electoral Votes have been received for Obama so far and the Electoral votes are transmitted to Congress tomorrow. It may be a mute issue



posted on Jan, 2 2009 @ 06:25 PM
link   
Benevolent Heretic,

Sure. Basically, the fact that Obama won't be able to sign any legislation into law without the fear that the very first time someone breaks that law, he and everyone else will be forced to PROVE his eligibility so that the courts can enforce the law.

Snipets for your aching head...


As a matter of undeniable constitutional right and practical necessity, as soon as Obama’s Department of Justice attempts to enforce through criminal prosecutions legislation that the new Congress will enact and Obama will sign...



For example, in a criminal prosecution under a new statute that reinstates the Clinton “assault-weapons ban”. A defendant will undeniably have “standing” to challenge the indictment on the grounds that no statute imposing such a ban even exists, because the original “Bill which passed the House of Representatives and the Senate” was never “presented to the President of the United States”, and therefore could never “become a Law,” inasmuch as the supposed “President,” Barack Obama, being constitutionally ineligible for that office, was then and remains thereafter nothing but an usurper.


Basically, the invalidity of the law is the basis for the defense of the person.


Presumably, a properly represented defendant would subpoena Obama himself as the indispensable witness, requiring him to bring into court whatever records were in his possession or subject to his control that in any way evidenced, related to, or referred to the time, place, and circumstances of his birth, or to his citizenship, application for citizenship, renunciation of citizenship, or oath of allegiance in or to any country. This would include the original of his supposed Hawaiian birth certificate; every subsequent Hawaiian “certification of live birth” or like document created by public authorities...



In the interest of expediting the process, the custodians of records in Hawaii would also be subpoenaed to testify and to produce all relevant documents subject to their control.



And no Hawaiian or other law of the States or the General Government purporting to make those records “confidential” can frustrate the Sixth Amendment.


I know that wasn't as short as you probably need but it's the best I could do...



posted on Jan, 2 2009 @ 06:26 PM
link   
reply to post by redhatty
 


Actually, now I think it's up to 184 (if my calculator was working right).



posted on Jan, 2 2009 @ 06:33 PM
link   
Thank you very much, Iamonlyhuman. Very thoughtful of you.



Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman
Basically, the fact that Obama won't be able to sign any legislation into law without the fear that the very first time someone breaks that law, he and everyone else will be forced to PROVE his eligibility so that the courts can enforce the law.


In that case, I'll just say it's very silly. If someone breaks the law because they don't think Obama has the authority to make a law or questions his authority to make such laws, they are going to be treated the same as anyone who breaks the law. It's just silly.



posted on Jan, 2 2009 @ 07:25 PM
link   
No...
What I'm saying is that we don't want criminals getting off because Obama is ineligible to sign laws (and again I'm not saying that he is ineligible but it sure does look like it). Anyway, my point is that we'll know as soon as Congress enacts the first law and someone breaks it because that's going to be their defense and he or the State of Hawaii will then HAVE to PROVE his eligibility in a court of law.

[edit on 2/1/2009 by Iamonlyhuman]



posted on Jan, 3 2009 @ 12:23 AM
link   
Obama is your president and your problem, deal with it.



posted on Jan, 3 2009 @ 07:07 AM
link   
Illegal acts of the United State have never stopped it from proceeding along it merry way. Even if Obama was born in Hawaii - he still is not a Natural Born Citizen. Hawaii is not a legal state of the United States! See the following website: whatreallyhappened.com...   In 1999, the United Nations confirmed that the plebiscite vote that led to Hawaii’s statehood was in violation of article 73 of the United Nations’ charter. The Hawaii statehood vote, under treaty then in effect, was illegal and non-binding. On November 23, 1993, President Clinton signed United States Public Law 103-150, which not only acknowledged the illegal actions committed by the United States in the overthrow of the legitimate government of Hawaii, but also that the Hawaiian people never surrendered their sovereignty. The latter is the most important part of United States Public Law 103-150 for it makes it quite clear that the Hawaiian people never legally ceased to be a sovereign separate independent nation. There is no argument that can change that fact. United States Public Law 103-150, despite its polite language, is an official admission that the government of the United States illegally occupies the territory of the Hawaiian people. So even if Obama was born in Hawaii - he was not born in a legal U.S. State and is not a NBC.

So one illegal act spawns another illegal act and so on.



posted on Jan, 3 2009 @ 07:33 AM
link   
If I'm understanding the OP ... that's a big IF ...

Obama will be ineffective as POTUS because people question if he has the authority and until he proves he has the authority by showing his REAL AUTHENTIC BIRTH CERTIFICATE then he will be a lame duck president?

Something like that?

I hadn't thought of that. After some consideration on this I can understand why you think that but I don't see it happening. People who think that and act upon it will be a small minority and will be pushed aside. They won't be taken seriously.

Pushed aside and not taken seriously until they become useful tools for some politician to use to further his/her own agenda somehow.

It would be best for Obama to put this to rest.
It would be so easy for him to do.
He should do it and then eveyrone can move on.



posted on Jan, 3 2009 @ 08:50 AM
link   

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman
What I'm saying is that we don't want criminals getting off because Obama is ineligible to sign laws (and again I'm not saying that he is ineligible but it sure does look like it).


Criminals won't get off any more than they get off now.
Obama is not ineligible to sign laws. It only looks like that to those who are ignoring the facts.



Anyway, my point is that we'll know as soon as Congress enacts the first law and someone breaks it because that's going to be their defense and he or the State of Hawaii will then HAVE to PROVE his eligibility in a court of law.


When someone breaks the law and tries to use the defense that Obama is ineligible to be president, they will be laughed out of court. No one is going to make Obama further prove his eligibility just because some nut job says he was born in Kenya or isn't a natural-born citizen. Obama has already proven his eligibility.

The relatively small group of people who refuse to believe the facts before them are not going to be catered to. That's just a further delusion.



posted on Jan, 3 2009 @ 09:04 AM
link   
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


I agree with you to a point, about them being "pushed aside" or even laughed out of court.. but there is always the chance that just one "aspiring" young lawyer or congressman might actually try this. and create some sort of "scandle"..

But I hope that you are correct in that this is truly a non issue.. As has been stated before Obama has been "elected"(I know, not all the electoral votes are officialy in yet) And like it or not, He, as it stands now( for all practical intents and purposes) is our President..

God help the man.. I hope he is able to meet at least some of the expectations that have been heaped upon him...

[edit on 3-1-2009 by SideWynder]

[edit on 3-1-2009 by SideWynder]



posted on Jan, 3 2009 @ 09:33 AM
link   
reply to post by SideWynder
 


I have no doubt someone will try it. As demonstrate by the many frivolous lawsuits in the works, people are going to try all they can to get what they want. Some people just cannot accept reality.

As far as the electoral votes not being in yet, most states that voted for McCain aren't listed on that website either. I'm guessing that the website just hasn't been updated.

Some idiot has sued the Inauguration for the past 3 elections to get the prayers and "so help me, God" removed from the oath. He's doing it again this year. Some people just want what they want, and will make a big deal about it, even if they're wrong. What can I say? It's a free country.



posted on Jan, 3 2009 @ 09:40 AM
link   
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


I understand and agree with you.. and as far as your comment about a "free country" for some reason sitting here on a "conspiracy theory website" the Irony of that statement made me laugh...

I am not articulate enough to explain the humor I saw in it.. but hopefully you understand what I am trying to say...

Anyway I hope that your headache has subsided...



posted on Jan, 3 2009 @ 09:47 AM
link   
I did see the humor as I typed it. So yeah, I get it. But as long as we are free to sue the government because of some conspiracy backed by no facts, then I'm gonna say we're still relatively free. I did get the humor though.


My headache is gone, thank you. Seems Pizza Hut has started putting MSG in their sauce and it gave me a migraine.



posted on Jan, 3 2009 @ 10:01 AM
link   
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Seems Pizza Hut has started putting MSG in their sauce and it gave me a migraine.



I know this is off topic, but that explains alot, I noticed something was up with pizza hut, whole family has been having "digestion" probs after eating thier pizzas and stuff, just never put it together is all...thought maybe a "localized" prob...

OOH, maybe a topic for starting another thread......


[edit on 3-1-2009 by SideWynder]



posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 07:03 AM
link   
First off, if Obama is sworn into Office and is eligible for that position, then all I ask of him is to put in the necessary work to be the best President we've ever had. Not the Leader of the Free "World". America is a country, not a world, and any further attempts at World Domination by anyone will result in a cataclysmic end for everyone. It's proper to provide input to help other countries, but not to usurp sovereignty over their nations.

Second of all, I and all lawyers and plaintiffs in cases challenging Obama's credentials, as far as I've heard from their mouths, are not against Obama because he's a Democrat, part Afro-American, so on and so forth.

Those of us who say that Barack will be POTUS no matter what and anyone else has to deal with it is not exercising the founding principles of our country, as stated in the Constitution; the core document of American Law. Barack's ineligibility stance is based solely on Law. If Barack is ineligible to be POTUS, based on LAW, not popularity, then anyone who is not eligible hereafter can argue in a Court of Law that since Obama is alowed, then so can any non-Natural-Born-Citizen at any time in the future; meaning, a terrorist, an illegal alien, etc.

Those of us arguing that Barack received the popular vote of the People, and therefore should be President no matter what, doesn't understand (1) how Presidents are elected and (2) the Law. As an example: a bank gets robbed by a masked robber. The mask is pulled off and it's the most well respected person in the community who robbed the bank. The local paper gets alot of letters from local citizens saying that the bank robber is popular in the town and shouldn't have to be sent to prison. Sure they're popular, and alot of people like the bank robber, so does that mean the Court should care what the local citizens think and let him walk free without any charges?

The ineligibilty of Obama is not a conspiracy hacked up by some do-no-gooders in their spare time. They are concerned citizens of the U.S. and should be respected as so. They are lawyers, military officials, politicians, average citizens, etc. The people who should not be respected are those too lazy to read up on the facts of the Obama challenges and who are willing to let America slip another ten feet down the slippery slope of our country's spine.

There is hard data to support the claim that Barack is ineligible, and, yes, it does matter. Go read up on all the cases and official documents. Or just spew out your opinions and be a propangandist supporting the fall of our Nation.


To the poster who provided inforamtion regarding Hawaii as not being a U.S. state: You should go to www.drorly.blogspot.com, and send her this information.

To the posters who waste their time with concerns about who gets laughed at for being a true American. Just realize that if laughter affects important decisions in your life, then I suggest you work on buiulding up your self-esteem.

Peace to All



new topics

top topics



 
4

log in

join