Originally posted by FlyersFan
Hamas are scum. They use civilians as human shields.

Israel used to put palestine kids on their tanks as human shelds

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Hamas are scum. They use civilians as human shields.

Israel used to put palestine kids on their tanks as human shelds

Originally posted by GamerGal
There are none. The Palestinians invade Israel, break into the hospital, and murder new borns.

Can you post your sources?

I remember you mentioning this before, but you didn't have time to post your source.

The bottom line is that all of the propaganda and the terror inducing phone calls are wrong IMO. This conflict is is obviously "owned" by the MSM, just look at the title. The obvious front for the terror calls is "warning" and all the people who believe everything the MSM says look at it and go "oh ok well at least their attempting to warn those people" but we know better. It is a shame how psychological warfare comes int play and that is what the MSM is calling it, but we know better it's a form of terrorism pure and simple, and lest we not forget that Israel in the eyes of the media can do no wrong so naturally they would turn a bad headline into a story of how the "horrible" Hamas were using the mosque as military operations center and storing weapons there.

The Media portrays whatever they want the masses to believe not nesscasarily the actual facts, and as far as Israel defending themselves, I agree but wouldn't giving some land to Palestine and letting them actually build a decent society be defending themselves? It would sure make the rocket attacks go away imo. I believe both sides are acting like animals right now and both sides now could be considered to be defending themselves, but at the cost of all the innocent lives.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
They use schools and mosques and homes and other civilian structures from which to work their terrorism from. THEY are the reason these things are being blown up. Because THEY made them military targets. It's their own damn fault.

So when Israeli has all of the Palestinians imprisoned in a 10 km area, where all they have are buildings and mosques, where do you expect Hamas to operate? It's Israel's fault for confining Palestinians in such a small space.

It's like keeping people locked up in a cage that you are about to bomb, and blaming the one bad person in the cage for putting everyone in that situation.

Originally posted by DJMessiah
How do they expect people to flee from the area when they have all exits blocked off?

There is another Gaza border - with EGYPT ya' know. But the Palestinians behaved so poorly with Egypt that Egypt doesn't want them either. It's the 'Palestinians' own fault.

Originally posted by DJMessiah
where do you expect Hamas to operate?

NO WHERE. There is NO REASON for them to be raining rockets down upon israel day after day. What do you think they are aiming at with the rockets? ISRAELI CIVILIANS. Therefore - I expect Hamas to operate their terrorism NOWHERE.

It's Israel's fault for confining Palestinians in such a small space.

immediate edit to fix spelling

[edit on 1/2/2009 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by FlyersFan
The innocent people suffer because of HAMAS.
Israel is defending itself - as is their right.
Hamas caused the bombs to fall where they did.
Hamas picked human shields and civilian structures to work out of.
HAMAS doesn't care.

Replace Israel with "Iraq" and Hamas with "US soldiers" and you will see that you have the same exact mentality as the insurgents in Iraq. So are they wrong and you're right?

Here is how it looks like:

The innocent Iraqis suffer because of US soldiers.
Iraq is defending itself - as is their right.
US Soldiers caused the IEDs to be placed where they did.
US Soldiers picked human shields and civilian structures to work out of.
US Soldiers don't care.

[edit on 2-1-2009 by DJMessiah]

Originally posted by DJMessiah
The innocent Iraqis suffer because of US soldiers.
Iraq is defending itself - as is their right.

Wrong. The INSURGENTS caused the Iraqis to suffer. It was INSURGENTS that have been killing Iraqi civlians. The Iraqi civilians aren't defending themselves from Americans, the civilians are defending themselves from the INSURGENTS.

Try again.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
There is another Gaza border - with EGYPT ya' know. But the Palestinians behaved so poorly with Egypt that Egypt doesn't want them either. It's the 'Palestinians' own fault.

You mean the border that the US pays Egypt to keep locked, so Egypt isn't caught in the Palestinian/Israeli conflict, by helping Palestinians?

NO WHERE. There is NO REASON for them to be raining rockets down upon israel day after day.

What defense do Palestinian's have against Isreal expanding its borders into Palestinian refugee towns? Does Israel allow Palestinians to have their own military? Does Israel use collective punishment by shutting off power and water to towns and hospitals?

Tell me, what is their defense?

What do you think they are aiming at with the rockets? ISRAELI CIVILIANS. Therefore - I expect Hams to operate their terrorism NOWHERE.

They mainly aim the rockets at military settlements. The rockets are crude and are poorly guided, veering off direction of often missing its intended target. The rockets do not have a GPS system, or laser guided system which is why it is known to hit civilian areas. Now unlike these rockets, Israel does have rockets that can be controlled, and yet they still kill more civilians than Hamas do. Why is that?

It's Israel's fault for confining Palestinians in such a small space.

You can ignore that before Israel invades any territory, they take out any exits for both civilian and terrorists, like they did with Lebanon's bridges and airports, but it doesn't change the fact that Israel intends to kill both civilian and enemy alike.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Wrong. The INSURGENTS caused the Iraqis to suffer. It was INSURGENTS that have been killing Iraqi civlians.

Do tell, how have they been killing Iraqi civilians? It wouldn't be because of the IEDs they leave for US soldiers would it? Because then that would mean that the US soldier's presence there is what is causing the deaths, just as like you wanted to blame Hamas for.

The Iraqi civilians aren't defending themselves from Americans, the civilians are defending themselves from the INSURGENTS.

Did the insurgents invade Iraq? Or are you going to claim the insurgents are all "Al Queda"? Here's something to consider - Iraqis make up the insurgents.

Try again.

Let me ask you, when was the last time you were in Iraq and spoke to an Iraqi about their thoughts? You tell me your story and I'll tell you mine.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
And how many of them would still be alive if Hamas wasn't engaged in terrorism? Probably almost all of them. Israelies wouldn't be murdered and there would be no need for Israel to have to defend itself.

Ask yourself why is Hamas doing this.

Don't believe the "It's because they want to wipe out all the Jews" lie. They're doing it because nothing else is stopping Israel from expanding its borders.

It's not right to kill civilians, no matter if they're Israeli or Palestinian, but both sides are doing it. Hamas's excuse is that they have no other defense. They can sign a "peace" agreement with Israel, but that doesn't stop Israeli from expanding its borders.

I'm curious to hear your solution to this. If you're a Palestinian, how do you keep Israel from expanding its borders?