2008 Military Times poll: Wary about Obama

reply to post by dominicus

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I don't agree with that statement... I would not generalise the military.. just like civilians there people from all walks of life with higher and lower IQs.. most military people I know are very intelligent..

reply to post by Mirthful Me

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Now I know why all the people complaining about the name calling and partisan mudslinging during the election did nothing. Your post exactly sums up what was wrong with this election and the problems within the political discussions on this board:

"The Messiah"
"Kool-Aid"
"Sheep"
"Dope Smoking Cocaine Snorting" (notice the present tense)

Then you ignore all reason and accuse the SCOTUS of allowing Obama to get away with fraud by dismissal of the Constitution. I assume you are discussing about the natural born citizen issue, which has been thoroughly debunked and mangled.

To date, not one shred of evidence has been provided to show that Obama isn't a natural born citizen. Every claim so far has either never been produced or shown to be complete garbage (the G-Mom Tape, the selective service registration, and now the divorce papers).

You accuse others of reading the NY Times, but it's obvious what you've been reading: Blogs and threads that you should have been closing for being full of crap.

Berg's Lawsuit Ripped to Shreds

Benevolent Heretic Crushes the Hopes of the Desperate With the Truth About the Divorce Papers

[edit on 1/2/2009 by Irish M1ck]

reply to post by Mirthful Me

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The thing to keep in mind about that 60% figure is that it doesn't necessarily only consist of conservative servicemen. Though the military on average is dominated by a fairly dangerous and uneducated brand of conservatism, it's not as if Obama is strictly being mistrusted because he's not a dangerous extremist like our outgoing president and many of his supporters in green. Part of the problem with Obama may simply be that he can't plead insanity for the same offenses that Bush could. That's why I would have confidence issues with him if I were still in.

It's one thing to know that the war keeps going on and on because the president is some kind of True Believer and somehow honestly thinks that the war is both important and winnable. OK, so the president's a maniac, we'll just have to live with that.

But this new president knew the war was a bad idea at the beginning, and he knows we're losing. He was absolutely right about it, but now he's in no big hurry to put an end to it. It's almost more reassuring to know that an incorrigible moron is the cause of your suffering that to not understand it at all.

He actually keeps the Sec Def from the previous administration; An administration which developed and promoted the dangerously impractical and needlessly expensive Joint Vision 2020, a system which appears custom built to violate posse comitatus, even after General Van Ripper proved it wouldn't work in the Millenium Challenge exercise.

Rightwing hawks may distrust Obama because he's a liberal, but people who know what the heck they're talking about will distrust Obama because he's right on track to be as ineffectual on military policy as the rightwing hawks have been during their turn.

Well he is a Chicago thug so he obviously knows how to shoot, just not for lawfull purposes!

reply to post by The Vagabond

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You got it right there, I was full of hope for my nation for after seen the people that Obama is surrounding with in Washington I lost all my faith in his "time for change rhetoric"

Same BS just under another political party.

Fight what...getting across the border into Canada, or for elbow room in a street corner protest holding 10 cent signs and shouting even cheaper slogans?

Those of us who have actually been in the military and combat no what real fighting and sacrifice is. People like you do not!

reply to post by LiquidMirage

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You show me a cause worth fighting for first! I will not die in Iraq, nor the Middle East in general, where our hands are as bloody as our enemies'.

You don't know anything about me, or the other 50% of this country you accuse of cowardice!

[edit on 1/2/2009 by Irish M1ck]

I suppose the lies, distortions, name calling, and all manner of "partisan mudslinging" coming from libs over the past 8...err...30 years is ok, huh? You live in a glass house! Stop throwing stones.

I think he was just trying to be honest.

The people who joined the armed forces from my high school did so because they lacked other options like college.

Also, people I know in college level military programs are kind of followers/conformists.

I'm not saying all of them are like this, but this is my experience.

reply to post by LiquidMirage

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Again, you don't know me or what house I live in. While I have disagreed with Bush and his policies (not how he wears a lapel, or how he salutes, or whether he did drugs one time), but I never reserted to calling him Bushy, Butt-Boy Bush, or even really W.

Notice you couldn't name a "stone" that I threw anyway.

reply to post by LiquidMirage

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Tell that to the Marines, LiquidMirage. Start with this Marine. Tell me all about how this nation, which the founders didn't even believe should have a standing army, can only be fully appreciated and participated in by people who have been shot at.

I lost more friends to gunfire in highschool than I did in the Marine Corps (and I'm not talking about just a couple in either hand), and I learned a heck of a lot more about living in America and what can go wrong if we don't live up to our civic responsibilities from the former rather than from the later.

Maintaining and employing military force is one of the least American things that America does. It's not the epitome of American patriotism, but rather a necessary evil which we should seek to exercise only at the absolute minimum level practical, because its very essence is undemocratic. Very few people are cut out for it, particularly people from democratic societies, and thank God for that, because a society composed chiefly of ideal soldiers would crumble from the inside out within months.

Leave civilization in the hands of civilians; they have more experience with it than militants.

I completely disagree. I think the numbers were far better for Bush when he was coming into office, especially after having someone like Clinton as Commander-in-Chief. It's no secret that a majority of the military did not like or respect Clinton as their leader. And the way he gutted the armed forces pretty much proved their concerns to be true.

Building up the military and showing the proper respect for them as their Commander-in-Chief was a big selling point for the Bush campaign. And it certainly worked, as men and women in uniform supported and voted for Bush in far greater numbers than Al Gore and even John Kerry (both Vietnam veterans, I might add). Whether or not Bush lived up to his promises, and whether or not the military still feels the same about him is an entirely different story, of course.

Anyway, this poll is right on target with what I expected. You're not going to get a lot of support from the military when you've accused them of carpet bombing civilians in Afghanistan and declared that the surge in Iraq wasn't going to work (and still refuses to admit that it has, despite the overwhelming evidence proving it). But for all I know, Obama could become a great wartime president that is admired by a majority of the military. But if tha's the case, he has a hell of a lot of ground to make up for. The military sees him as a liberal elitist who won't give them the support and respect they rightfully deserve.

It's a valid subject. Our leaders are never beyond question in America. If somebody is behaving inappropriately feel free to alert their posts. But let's not start an in-thread debate over whether or not the thread should be closed.

Hey Vagabond-

Is there any reason why I cannot read Article11's posts?

[edit on 1/2/2009 by Irish M1ck]

I didn't know anything about that until a few minutes ago, so I really don't know enough to have any business talking about it. Best if we just go back to the thread topic I think.