Freedom is a fantasy, we need rules not chaos

I would like to address a philosophy I have and it is in relation to what has been reiterated throughout the decades and that is the notion of freedom. I personally think that freedom is just a false programmed mindset and is believed to be attainable as an 'end reward' if we endure circumstances we don't have to.

One example I will use is the current war going on in Iraq in a speech made by George W Bush

President Addresses Nation, Discusses Iraq, War on Terror
Fort Bragg, North Carolina

"The troops here and across the world are fighting a global war on terror. The war reached our shores on September the 11th, 2001. The terrorists who attacked us -- and the terrorists we face -- murder in the name of a totalitarian ideology that hates freedom, rejects tolerance, and despises all dissent. Their aim is to remake the Middle East in their own grim image of tyranny and oppression -- by toppling governments, by driving us out of the region, and by exporting terror.

To achieve these aims, they have continued to kill -- in Madrid, Istanbul, Jakarta, Casablanca, Riyadh, Bali, and elsewhere. The terrorists believe that free societies are essentially corrupt and decadent, and with a few hard blows they can force us to retreat. They are mistaken. After September the 11th, I made a commitment to the American people: This nation will not wait to be attacked again. We will defend our freedom. We will take the fight to the enemy".

A name termed for the Iraqi war is Operation Iraqi Freedom.... theres that word again. It makes war sound like a worthwhile cause and one which many use to propel the determination they have to support the war.

That sounds all nice and pretty but looking at the reality of war, would we be so destined to go to war to 'free' Iraq if it were called Operation Massacre, which is what it is.... but suddenly that has a negative mental effect and no one would support it.

In that example I just gave I think many people will see how effective the illusion of freedom is used as a false promise and an unattainable reality to justify wrong doings.

Freedom by definition means the following:

FREEDOM: The condition of being free; the power to act or speak or think without externally imposed restraints

exemption: immunity from an obligation or duty

Im not sure about everyone else but that definition in itself seems to make freedom look like a total fallacy and a product of mass mind manipulation to believing it can be real. It almost promotes living in a world with no consequence or responsibility which is not a world I want to live in. And immunity from obligation or duty, do we really want that in our world, to do anything whenever we want without a purpose or duty is just asking for chaos.

Lets not give into mind control and the deception that 'one day we will have freedom' because it would never work. If none of us had the obligation to do anything the world would come to a standstill, we would be like mannequins with no purpose.

Instead of hoping a dreaming for a fake and unattainable version of reality namely freedom, we should be looking at a real system with equal and fair rules for everyone, that is what we should be fighting for.



[edit on 1-1-2009 by Drakiir]

[edit on 1-1-2009 by Drakiir]

I'm sorry but that post sounds like it's coming from a victim of the same evil powers that it condemns.

Freedom cannot be attained? Your example of freeing Iraq...everyone on this board knows that's not anyone's goal. We're in there to fulfill an agenda, and to "spread democracy". That's why "freedom" hasn't been attained there..that's not even the goal.

Freedom does not mean without obligation or duty. It means being able to put your energy into whatever you want, instead of being forced or manipulated into doing something. Your only duty would be to 1. Not infringe others freedom, 2. Your responsibility would be taking care of yourself, and making sure you are doing what you feel is appropriate to what you want to do at any given moment. Believe me, just because no one is giving you a job, doesn't mean you won't have the need and the opportunity to do work. Teachers for example after retirement become substitutes again, because they get bored of not working. In a free world however, you could work by planting your food and growing and harvesting it, and studying something very hard. You could choose to study medicine, or choose to be an artist.

The idea of freedom that gets talked about is an illusion. Real freedom is attainable, but doesn't suit the interests of the people in power.

You are right.
Freedom is nothing more than an illusion. By choosing to live in the Artificial Womb (nation-state, matrix, call it what you are), you are WILLINGLY GIVING CONSENT to hand over your power.

I could expand on this but its not worth it.
long live the illuminati, who are responsible and focused.
not like the masses who complain and do nothing else

there are only two things in life that are certain.. Freedom is not one of them
1. Choice
2. Force

reply to post by Drakiir


You don't happen to be a Romulan, do you?

two lines.

reply to post by Reddupo


I'm sorry but that post sounds like it's coming from a victim of the same evil powers that it condemns.

I must state that I am not an advocate of evil and despise the Illuminati as they represent dominance. I am trying to advocate a fair and just system for all not a system of domination which the Illuminati love to do and stems from religion.

Freedom cannot be attained? Your example of freeing Iraq...everyone on this board knows that's not anyone's goal. We're in there to fulfill an agenda, and to "spread democracy". That's why "freedom" hasn't been attained there..that's not even the goal.

A good point however that is not what Mr George W Bush wants us to believe he wants us to think we are in there to free Iraq. The real goal is to dominate that country with propaganda power and control, something the Illuminati do which I reiterate I am completely against.

Freedom does not mean without obligation or duty. It means being able to put your energy into whatever you want, instead of being forced or manipulated into doing something. Your only duty would be to 1. Not infringe others freedom, 2. Your responsibility would be taking care of yourself, and making sure you are doing what you feel is appropriate to what you want to do at any given moment.

Sorry to tell you but that reply is in direct contradiction to the definition I attained which was from the dictionary itself and there is no point arguing with a dictionary...lol, Maybe the government is reponsible for altering the very defintion through lies and deceit...hint hint

The idea of freedom that gets talked about is an illusion. Real freedom is attainable, but doesn't suit the interests of the people in power.

We should be stripping everything back to the constitutions of each country with fair and just rules for all, I hope that convinces you that I am not a representative of the Illuminati as they want direct opposite

reply to post by eldard


Instead of hoping a dreaming for a fake and unattainable version of reality namely freedom, we should be looking at a real system with equal and fair rules for everyone, that is what we should be fighting for

If that is somehow interpreted as dominating and controlling and not wanting to sort fact from illusion while also realizing we need rules such as the AU Magncharta and the US Constition to make the world turn.......than Im Santa Claus

reply to post by Drakiir


Since you posted a speech by dumbass Bush, then you are Santa Claus.

Your thesis is nothing but wishful thinking while blatantly ignoring history. A society without freedom never advances morally or technologically.

reply to post by eldard


George W Bush is an advocate of the whole 'freedom illusion' and almost every prime minister and president pushes the same idea to propel false hope into millions of people daily.

History is altered, manipulated and changed all the time so the entirety of it is not completely accurate in the first place, the hard part is picking fact from fiction. Additionally if people think that we will live in a world of freedom when the world is in decline as apposed to prosperity that is complete fiction also.

My main point is I believe we should be aiming for a system of fair and just rules which was the whole intent of the constitution in the first place. Instead people want a world without rules which results in total chaos.

To go deeper in thought

When you get down to the details we can never be totally free because to be that we would have nothing to propel thought.  Being totally free to do as we wish would mean we would all be mannequins and never progress because completely free is no obligation to do anything

Lets not go on what the government indoctrinates people with of the idea of freedom lets base if off what it actually means which is what I am doing. I think a better, more fair and realistic system needs to be incorporated consisting of morals rules and values

[edit on 1-1-2009 by Drakiir]

[edit on 1-1-2009 by Drakiir]

reply to post by Drakiir


And what if that new system is used again to manipulate the people? (And it will be.) Then you're back again to square one. There's no easy answer.

reply to post by MrJelly


there are only two things in life that are certain.. Freedom is not one of them
1. Choice
2. Force

Unfortunately that is the reality of this world and I will add for reinforcement that it is mostly caused by governments and secret groups such as the Illuminati.

Believe me I wish it was not that way

reply to post by eldard


Than it is the duty of the people to make laws that are fair and governed by the people themselves. At the moment people are believing the lies the government tells them by using freedom as an incentive to propagate war and other disasters. They use guilt, depression, subservience on the people to force them into decisions as apposed reaching conclusions on propagated falsities and lies.

Most of the governments tactics are psychological in that so many people believe in the false version freedom to live life the way they want with no rules and no obligations. This is used to the governments advantage to get the people to endure what they do not have too such as war, famine, poverty and others.

People are baited by the idea that if they wait long enough and endure hard enough that freedom will be theirs based on the false version of it when realistically its false hope, it cant work thats the deception I am against.

Its never "lets solve the issue with fair laws that benefit all' its always "we have to endure (when we dont even have to) and freedom will be ours" (when it wont). Why should anyone have to go through an atrocity on the hope that at the end a fake perception of freedom will be given....my answer is, they shouldn't have to.

[edit on 2-1-2009 by Drakiir]

enjoy your rules ill take my anarchy.

its not the rules that are the problem its the rule makers and enforecers.

reply to post by N. Tesla


I also agree that the ones who are responsible for letting deceptions and lies spread throughout history and attempt to make it fact are the issue. It come down to whether or not issues are really going to be solved or prolonged in most cases its prolonged with lies.

Great point you made there

I would also like to hear what peoples perceptions of a free country or freedom in general is, as people interpret freedom differently

[edit on 2-1-2009 by Drakiir]

[edit on 2-1-2009 by Drakiir]

At least under our present psuedo democracy, there is the hope that people will wake up and vote in their own and change the system. But I have never recognized any form of authority over me, and consider all works of every leader so incredibly flawed and most of the court decisions that I would never in a million years give my power away to anyone, or allow them to imagine they've got more of it than they do now. And if they do go further their lives aren't worth mine, nor my children's freedom.

reply to post by mystiq


As long as the governments these days keep on making fake promises and the people keep on believing them by making us endure for no reason what so ever than the people of this world will continue to wait with baited breath.

Every American and pretty much every person on the globe looks forward to the day where they will be free. Its even in the constitution and is promised by every leader around (although its fake) the world and somehow people become delusional and think everything will get better.

The world is going downhill people and as long as you believe your governments and wait with baited breath, than on will go the illusion. If your so called freedom is around the corner than expect the state of the world to keep on declining.

Freedom has been mentioned for decades, incoporated in the dreams of every person on this globe and promised over and over again. We are told we have to endure to receive this freedom, why do we have to?

The low amount of replies to something that everyone is supposed to believe in and want badly, and fight for shows a clear indicator of how little people want it, they may as well ask the governments to enslave them and save the hassle.

The hint is that freedom has been the 'great American dream'.... thats all it is a dream. People of the world your promised freedom is nothing but a dream, and excuse used to propel you psychologically into believing and acting the way your governments want you too. Its a way to calm you down and say 'everything will be ok' when it wont they are treating you as sheep herding and manipulating you they way governments want.

The one thing the government loves about the people being sheep is that they are compliant and will follow the next one to the slaughter


[edit on 3-1-2009 by Drakiir]

reply to post by Drakiir


Hi Drak.

Is freedom a fantasy? I think that depends on how an individual percieves their freedom. Although I live in the West and my life is more free than many, I dont feel totally free. I dont feel free because of the "Grid" I seem to be on, the grid I can never leave. They know my address, they have my social security detals, I need plastic to buy things, my passport is needed if I wish to leave my country, I have to have a license to drive my car, that car has a chip in its window that tells them where I am and if Ive payed to be on that road. Mobile phones, sat navigation systems, I could easily be found with these. The list is endless of the ways and means they have of tracking me on the grid and if I ever became a problem to them and wished to step off the grid I couldnt. I couldnt because I need all these things to live, yes sure I could go live in a forest and be some sort of hermit but this really is not how I wish to live.

There are very few things in our life that we can do without being tracked or logged doing. I used to think speaking to a person quietly in their ear was a safe bet, but now apparently in the UK we have certain cameras that can zoom in and pick up our conversations, just in case we are acting strange and plotting some crime. yes Im sure these are helpful in inner cities but Im still not happy at all about any of this. So no I dont feel free at all, even though Im told I am free.

reply to post by Mr Green


Wow that is an excellent answer Miss Green and that is exactly what I am aiming at, I think as long as we are stuck in these 'glass cells' with the illusion of being free, we never will be truly free.

We are tagged and tracked like dogs on a leash except we don't know exactly who our masters are with the only name they are referred to as 'they'. One of systems used is the CCTV system or out here its called Safety Cams and its exactly how overboard control can go and in using the excuse of 'its for the security of the citizens' wrong its to spy on them.

Pretty much every mobile device is used to keep a track on us and additionally I believe that all those satellites out in orbit aren't just for Foxtel *wink wink* It has been know that any GPS being activated can be tracked by the military which of course is not advertised for loss in sales.

Yep I totally and absolutely agree with you, and I also feel this 'grid' all the time, and personally If there was a shuttle to Mars for the first people to colonize it Id be first in line.

With the continued rapid decline of this world it is only going to get worse and as long as people keep believing in 'the great dream' to justify enduring what we don't have to than freedom is the only thing it has been described as....a dream.

Top reply there Miss Green

reply to post by Drakiir


Freedom doesn't mean an absolute absence of any rules or responsibilities. Here's another part of the definition you might want to look at

www.merriam-webster.com...

a:-the absence of necessity, coercion, or constraint in choice or action b: liberation from slavery or restraint or from the power of another


We'll have to differ as to your opinion about a massacre in Iraq(90+% of the dead are as a result of insurgents/sectarian violence), and the 600k-1 million+ fatality figures are BS.

reply to post by BlueRaja


a:-the absence of necessity, coercion, or constraint in choice or action b: liberation from slavery or restraint or from the power of another

Based on the continual decline of this planet and the widespread corruption this is only to reinforce the title of the thread - Freedom is a fantasy. I don't think I could envision anyone saying that this is a future they see even within the next 10 years, if anything unfortunately judging on the state of the world it will be total opposite.

Additionally the quote at the top of the thread for everyone to note, is only to emphasize how they use the fake promise of 'freedom' to propel their own interests and agendas.

Even if both meanings come from the same dictionary it is still a fake future which we are continually fed to make people believe they really do have a dream future. Its as phony as a projected image, sure it sounds and even looks good but it is still nonetheless fake.

I mean to be completely honest I see this world falling into a one world order that only the governments and elite of the day have any control over and that will be corrupt control as has been shown for decades on end

[edit on 7-1-2009 by Drakiir]

What will be unattainable, as soon as reality hits and the truth is available to the masses, is nwo, and fascism. Its just becoming unglued from their matrix and then the true freedom and community will eventually form without the renegade/bloodlines in control. The people will be managing just fine thank you.