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Israeli airstrike kills a top Hamas leader

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Topic started on 1-1-2009 @ 08:02 PM by alyosha1981

Israeli airstrike kills a top Hamas leader

news.yahoo.com

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip – An Israeli warplane dropped a 2,000-pound bomb on the home of one of Hamas' top five decision-makers Thursday, instantly killing him and 18 others, while the Israeli army said troops massed on the Gaza border were ready for any order to invade.

The airstrike on Nizar Rayan was the first that succeeded in killing a member of Hamas' highest echelon since Israel began its offensive Saturday. The 49-year-old professor of Islamic law was known for personally participating in clashes with Israeli forces and for sending one of his sons on a 2001 suicide mission that killed two Israelis.

Even as it pursued its bombing campaign, Israel kept the way open for intense efforts by leaders in the Middle East and Europe to arrange a cease-fire. Israel said it would consider a halt to fighting if international monitors were brought in to track compliance with any truce.

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[edit on 1-1-2009 by alyosha1981]

[edit on 1-1-2009 by alyosha1981]

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reply posted on 1-1-2009 @ 08:02 PM by alyosha1981

Hey all! I just caught this one, and wanted to share.This is deffinatly a new turn in this conflict as one of the to decission makers of Hamas was killed in the strike, and Israeli troops amassed a t the border ready for the order to invade, What kind of effects will this have on Hamas? will it demoralize efforts or will it just add gasoline to the already out of control fire?

news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 1-1-2009 by alyosha1981]

reply posted on 1-1-2009 @ 08:36 PM by WestPoint23

reply to post by alyosha1981

Israel's actions essentially ensure that the "out of control fire" may be eternal, unless there is a change. You would think after 60+ years of this they would have learned that, guess not. Heavy handed tactics (military operations) can be successful, temporarily, even in an ideological conflict because they allow for an opportunity to set a foundation for a peaceful future. However if such an organic supported foundation is not present chances are another confrontation is inevitable. See Iraq as an example. Now that organic forces are gaining strength and the nation is more or less functioning properly and still improving the situation will eventually stabilize.

reply posted on 1-1-2009 @ 08:41 PM by alyosha1981

reply to post by WestPoint23

Your right, in that the military actions might prepare them for peace. I wonder if the other top members were to have been killed as well what kind of response from Hamas could we expect to see? and as one of the "links" in the chain has already fallen, what will this do for the conflict itself?

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reply posted on 1-1-2009 @ 09:10 PM by RedGolem

Well I can't say if this will lead to any sort of peace or not. I can say that it seems after six days of air strikes they might have finely hit a target of value.

reply posted on 1-1-2009 @ 11:11 PM by alyosha1981

reply to post by RedGolem

Yes target of value, but what of the other 18 that were killed as well, were they targets of value?

reply posted on 1-1-2009 @ 11:14 PM by RedGolem

reply to post by alyosha1981

Alyosha
I clearly have no way of knowing.
They could have been nothing more then hamas members. They could have been women and children. I would suspect the reports coming from the Gaza strip will lean tword the latter.

reply posted on 1-1-2009 @ 11:22 PM by alyosha1981

reply to post by RedGolem

I'm not attacking you RedGolem, but just so you know,

Eighteen other people, including all four of Rayan's wives and nine of his 12 children, also were killed, Palestinian health officials said. A man cradled the burned, limp body of a child he pulled from the rubble.

www.foxnews.com...

reply posted on 1-1-2009 @ 11:27 PM by Decoy

Israel should cut a very-wide swath sparing woman & children at all cost. Through demolishing hAMOS then they can quickly make decisions on how best to tumble Iranian nuclear plants with contingency plans to crush their government and not their people.

reply posted on 1-1-2009 @ 11:32 PM by jam321

The death of the wives and children are nonetheless tragic and every effort should be made by Israel to avoid killing civilians. However, I have to ask this question. If you knew that the Israelis were looking for your head, would you surround yourself with your family or would you leave them so that no danger will come to them?

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reply posted on 1-1-2009 @ 11:33 PM by alyosha1981

reply to post by Decoy

Problem is that Hamas leaders are in hiding so Israel has no way of knowing exactly where they are, so instead of gathering good intel, they just drop 2,000 lb bombs on apartment buildings "suspected' of containing targets of value, killing innocent women and children as they go

reply posted on 1-1-2009 @ 11:36 PM by alyosha1981

reply to post by jam321

Your right, his fault by all means but shouldn't the intell that was gathered have been verrified before the strike commenced? clearly Israel considderes women and children expendable if they surround a target of value.

reply posted on 1-1-2009 @ 11:39 PM by jam321

reply to post by alyosha1981

yes, I give you 100% support on what you said. Personally, I wouldn't have put my family at risk like that in the first place. I appreciate your honesty in answering the question.

reply posted on 1-1-2009 @ 11:39 PM by Xtrozero

Do not people realize war is hell? That is just the way it is. There is a difference in thought processes though, maybe not results, when someone targets a tactical military target, or targets a random civilian/innocence target(s). Both are bad, both can lead to many dead, but there is a difference and if you need to be explained it then I’m sorry for you.

reply posted on 1-1-2009 @ 11:42 PM by dooper

Israel apparently has some very god intelligence within Gaza. This apparent ability to continue to gather good intelligence impresses the hell out of me.

One facet of warfare is that if your enemy is in the truck with others and you have him in sight, kill him. If he's in a house with others, kill him. If he's in a mosque, church, or bowing to a rock, kill him.

You kill these guys where you find them. Word gets out real quick that if you value someone, you keep the hell away from them.

reply posted on 1-1-2009 @ 11:45 PM by alyosha1981

reply to post by Xtrozero

No no explination needed, I understand the importance of target varification very well, Israel on the other hand, clearly does not. Although he was clearly at fault for not putting his family in a safe location I simply point out the neglect on the part of the Israeli Air force in that they don't "look" before fireing a 2,000 lb bomb into an inhabbited apartment building.

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reply posted on 1-1-2009 @ 11:46 PM by RedGolem

reply to post by alyosha1981

Well it seems I was right when I said the latter.
I agree with the other posters about surrounding your self with you family in the middle of a war zone when you are a prime target.

reply posted on 1-1-2009 @ 11:48 PM by alyosha1981

Originally posted by dooper

You kill these guys where you find them. Word gets out real quick that if you value someone, you keep the hell away from them.

Good point dooper, although I am not coming to grips with exactly why he chose not put his family in a safe place, I mean come on the whole concept is flawed, he knew he was a target and chose to murder his family and Israel enabled that to occur.People call Hamas terrorists but don'y say anything when something like this happens....(sweeping incident under rug)

[edit on 1-1-2009 by alyosha1981]

reply posted on 1-1-2009 @ 11:53 PM by alyosha1981

reply to post by RedGolem

No, you were right and I hope you didn't take my response as an attack I just wasn't sure if you had heard of the 18 others killed in that attack, thats all other then that I do agree with you.

reply posted on 1-1-2009 @ 11:58 PM by dooper

reply to post by alyosha1981

I don't think it was neglect on the part of the Israelis. I think it was a well thought out principle of warfare.

See, if time and again, leadership is killed where found, and everyone around them is killed, then after a while these folks get real unpopular real fast.

"Don't come here!"

"Get the hell away from me!"

"Go get killed somewhere else!"

An apartment building or a market. You kill them when and where you find them. You don't get too many chances in conflict, and minutes can determine the outcome.