Russia cuts off gas to Ukraine

Russia cuts off gas to Ukraine

www.reuters.com

MOSCOW/KIEV (Reuters) - Russia cut off the gas to its neighbor Ukraine on Thursday after a contract dispute but increased supplies to other European states to try to reassure customers worried about possible disruption.

The European Union, which receives a fifth of its gas from pipelines crossing Ukraine, and the United States urged further negotiations to resolve the dispute and said all supply commitments must be met.

Energy firms in Germany, France, Poland, Romania, Austria and Italy said they had not yet seen any drop in supply. Europe has enough gas stockpiled to manage without Russian gas for several days, though not weeks, analysts said.

(visit the link for the full news article)



Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Russia to Cut Off Natural Gas Pipeline to Ukraine

Well it seems that we have symbolic rattel of the sabers in Europe.

I hope this does not escalate. I believe it could get rather cold or expensive in Europe if it does.

The poor of Europe may have another reason to riot if they get to the point that they can barely afford to heat the homes they live in.

quote
The row could raise new doubts about Moscow's reliability as an energy supplier and fuel suspicions in the West -- already running high since Russia's war with Georgia last August -- that the Kremlin bullies its pro-Western neighbors.quote

This may be good for Canada as we do ship a lot of our resources to Europe and we may need to somehow ship natural gas. Sort of a long pipeline though.

It would create a lot of jobs though.

quote
It looks like Russia and China have just cut a new deal though.
quote
geology.com...

You can see in this article that Canada needs new customers. Is Europe in the picture?

quote
Some forecasts have the TransCanada Pipeline, along with major gas shale plays in several parts of the United States, upsetting the export opportunities for Canadian natural gas. They believe that Canadian gas will need to enter non-USA markets.

quote

geology.com...





www.reuters.com
(visit the link for the full news article)


This will create a lot of tension in Europe at a time that our attention should be elseware.


[edit on 1-1-2009 by whiteraven]

If it wasn't for the Europeans needing gas from that pipeline, this would be a Ukraine problem. Nobody would give a heck if those poor Ukrainians froze their assets off. Fortunately for them, it is a European problem as well.

Originally posted by jam321
If it wasn't for the Europeans needing gas from that pipeline, this would be a Ukraine problem. Nobody would give a heck if those poor Ukrainians froze their assets off. Fortunately for them, it is a European problem as well.

I couldn’t agree more the Soviet Union may be gone but the people behind that disaster are still roaming the halls of the Kremlin.

Yeah the EU and Nato should be able to deal with this issue without US involvement.


I'm curious to see how this will play out in the media over the next few days/weeks


[edit on 1-1-2009 by SLAYER69]

I couldda sworn this happened same time last year.

Anyone help me with that?

Mungo

reply to post by mungodave


Or.......time slip...lol?

Say where have you been?

Just kidding.

I will look.

Russia just keeps pushing Ukraine further and further away with its actions, intimidation will not work with Ukraine. As the recent conflict with Georgia showed, such actions have the opposite effect. Russia can be proud, were that much closer to having another firm NATO member on their doorstep, and one that can defend themselves...

Relations between Russia and Ukraine sometimes appear strained. In 2005, a highly-publicized dispute over natural gas prices took place, involving Russian state-owned gas supplier Gazprom, and indirectly involving many European countries which depend on natural gas supplied by Russia through the Ukrainian pipeline. A compromise was reached in January 2006

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by mungodave


Great memory mungodave!

Originally posted by whiteraven
Well it seems that we have symbolic rattel of the sabers in Europe.

So when electricity goes out in your house because you are not paying you bills thats sabre rattling? Here I just thought it was capitalism.

Originally posted by whiteraven
The poor of Europe may have another reason to riot if they get to the point that they can barely afford to heat the homes they live in.

You are making it sound like Europe is fully dependent on Russia for energy, and that Russia will cut all supplies of gas. In fact Russian gas exports account for only about 30% of Europe's gas cosumption. Add to that the fact that besides gas much of Europe's energy is generated with nuclear power or coal. And even if Ukraine siphons off the gas from other's portions, most customers down the line will see supplies cut by no more than 20-35% in worst case scenerio.

Originally posted by whiteraven
The row could raise new doubts about Moscow's reliability as an energy supplier and fuel suspicions in the West -- already running high since Russia's war with Georgia last August -- that the Kremlin bullies its pro-Western neighbors.

So when you sell a product to someone and demand payment that amounts to bullying? What exactly do you find as "bullying" about wanting to get paid for your services and products?

Originally posted by whiteraven
This may be good for Canada as we do ship a lot of our resources to Europe and we may need to somehow ship natural gas.

You can't ship gas efficiently without a pipeline. And constructing a pipeline from Canada to Europe will cost tens of billions of dollars, perhaps even as much as a hundred billion. A much shorter pipeline being built y Russia through the Baltic costs about $12 billion for example. Plus such pipeline from Canada would take at the very least a decade to build. Totally unrealistic and certainly not in anyone's plans.

Originally posted by whiteraven
This will create a lot of tension in Europe at a time that our attention should be elseware.

There is very low probability that the same will occur as few years ago. For one, Ukraine reports that it has gas reserves for at least a month and a half. That means it does not need to siphon off much. Second, Gazprom reported that if Ukraine does siphon off gas, it will send more to European customers to make up for it - meanwhile Ukraine will be charges a fine for contract violation.

[edit on 1-1-2009 by maloy]

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Russia just keeps pushing Ukraine further and further away with its actions

Explain to me - why do you consider wanting payment for supplied products as "pushing"? Do you think Russia should supply Ukraine with gas free of charge, while Russian citizens and companies pay market prices for it? Is that fair?

Originally posted by WestPoint23
intimidation will not work with Ukraine.

How do you tie "intimidation" and asking for debt repayment?

Originally posted by WestPoint23
As the recent conflict with Georgia showed, such actions have the opposite effect.

What does Georgia have to do with any of this?





Here is a little lesson in economics and capitalism for those that forgot:


You have a seller and buyer. The seller sets the price and terms of the contract and offers the product to the buyer. If the buyer does not want to agree to the price, they are free to find another seller. In that case the original seller is under no obligation to supply them with the product. If there is no other seller - tough luck, take the offered price or STFU and cuddle to keep warm.

[edit on 1-1-2009 by maloy]

reply to post by WestPoint23

---

Gosh I love that "Duty, Honour, Country"

edit by Decoy: remainder of post removed after reading SO's novice.

[edit on 2-1-2009 by Decoy]