Sea Ice Ends Year at Same Level as 1979

And so the power groupings manipulate you. It's worth just picking up a New Scientist or Scientific American once in a while.



No, we've blown the skiing age. It's surf board city, warmer weather, bigger waves, face it, Australia is now the new enlightenment. It's even worse than the Red v Dead debate, who actually wants to be an Australian?

Lets make this straight, the reason why global warming theorists are focussing on carbon alone, is because of the fact that carbon is the major gas which is released into atmosphere in various forms like di-oxide and monoxide, from vehicles, power stations, our everyday life style releases carbon into the atmosphere. And this can be prevented by going green, and by this, I am not saying you to pay more taxes, just recycle daily things, reduce your electricity consumptions, and travel by cycle or public transport, thats all. There is no politics involved.

Sanity, sanity, Madness. There is, alas politics involved.

You know, you don't have to buy into things like global warming to be in favor of not polluting the environment. By putting faith and reasons like global warming as the reason why pollution is bad, you inadvertently take away from it, and as it proves to be false the cause loses credibility.

I think global warming is a hoax. But I'm not in favor of polluting the environment, nor do I think there is any valid reason for it. I think it should be a crime to pollute the environment, not just regulated which means they will still be able to legally pollute and then it's just a matter of who can pay/bribe the leaders the most to be allowed to do it.

For those who think mankind can have such a huge effect on the globe as a whole, get real. A single volcano eruption does more than man does. The sun makes a small change and suddenly ice records go back up etc.

"Climate Change" happens naturally and always has. The whole global warming scam is just an attempt to make money off it. Can we please get to valid reasons why pollution is bad? It's not like they don't exist.

reply to post by peacejet

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Let me give you an example about the myth of recycling. About 10 years ago P&W aircraft left this state to downsize and move the rest to Ga. Theres a huge complex of large buildings that have been cleaned up and abandoned. A startup company had a great idea. They where going to take in al the junk cars and take them apart and recycle them like they do in Germany and Japan. Guess what happened? The idiots in the EPA got a court injunction to stop them from recycling. In the injunction they stated, and the idiot judge signed it, that in the future there MIGHT be a problem with contamination because they had to store plastic and tires and steel on the ground. Yes because they had to store the remains on THE GROUND the EPA squashed a perfectly good, very needed activity becasue there MIGHT be a problem in the future. It is unconcionable the power of this moronic agency! No one regulates them. They have no oversite. The regs they come up with even lawyers can't fogure out. One reg contradicts others. Typical government idiocy!!
Zindo
edit to mention, ten years later and the buildings are still vacant and the company is still trying to get the ok from the damned EPA to start a business that would employ about 150 people!

[edit on 1/1/2009 by ZindoDoone]

reply to post by ZindoDoone

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Yes, you're right, and people wonder why we're losing jobs in this country. The GOVERNMENT and their policies are the biggest reason that we are losing jobs. Our tax policies ENCOURAGE corporations to send jobs overseas, we encourage illegal immigrants to come here and take jobs away from Americans. (For people that claim that they take jobs no one wants, why don't you ask the people who lost their homes whether they would take some of those jobs. I'm sure they would.)
In addition, scientific studies have proven that the total food production of the world would INCREASE with global warming, and DECREASE if the earth cooled more than it is now, so WHY do people like Gore WANT to control "Global Warming", if they really believe it is occurring? Do they want to starve more people?
And yes, as one member already pointed out, we CAN control pollution without taxing people.

reply to post by redled

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How can something be true AND used as propaganda?!

Well, in this case, yeah the dude is swimming in cold water. HOWEVER, the media is overblowing the entire goddamned thing and it isn't even REAL.
So, while true that he is swimming in frigid water, they are still perpetrating a LIE! Period.

reply to post by ZindoDoone

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Regarding your comment, where is the proof that Al Gore owns most of the market on green tech or carbon credits?

Heat talks and it's getting hotter? I know there are natural variations in any trend but I don't recall this being predicted: 2008 will be coolest year of the decade The climate may be warming but I haven' see one successful model to predict the current patterns.



Facts and Figures: Desertification and Drought



I'm glad the US is not part of the western world. A bit less xenophobia about Aussies and a bit more research might help your cause.

As a minor point of semantics, TRUE was in capitals, not AND.



Well it clearly was real and really the north pole should be frozen. Forgive my orthodox style thought on that one.



Except the world has warmed up. I liked 'period' in 1980s, it sounded so sharp. Symoblism does you right wing extremists, Osama wants to blow up the two towers, your boss is mates with his family and you want to poison the world. Nice........

reply to post by Anonymous ATS

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I didn't say owned, I said he and his holding company and General Electric have options and a stranglehold of control on most of the green tech in the market. He is the principal stock holder in his carbon credit holding company. According to WSJ he personaly made 70 million from his carbon credit business last year alone! If you remrember GE and their TV holdings went with a big Green push a few months back. NBC had weeks of Green programming touting their experience and their Technology. They even changed the peacock logo to green! They build most of the Wind tech.

Zindo
www.riehlworldview.com...
carnivorous_conservative/2007/03/al_gores_inconv.html

newsbusters.org...

[edit on 1/1/2009 by ZindoDoone]

The problem with green is not that it is yet viable, rather it should have been two decades back, but the oil companies.......

We have big media flourishes too, but no government giving stepping stone prizes. The Nobel lot could even add honour, but science wants to bleat about the rest of societies failings like the established churches rather than get involved. Oh well, when the oil price finally does shoot, even the bishops will see a need to preach about it, their retirements depend upon the energy sector.

By what i have been taught, global warming/climate change is completely real and naturally occurring so maybe were starting to go towards the next ice age.

Which is a good thing i guess because thats the way we survive with climate change. You see if we try to seal the ozone layer (stopping climate change) we actually keep in all the radiation and stuff and the earth basically burns to a crisp (gets real hot) kind of like a tent out in the sun

reply to post by dead-to-me

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Very good analogy. Well said! Star for you!!
Zindo

This is a much more complicated topic than Big Al admits to. CO2 is not the major culprit, water vapor is. None of the climate models allow for water vapor and that is why the predictions are inaccurate.

en.wikipedia.org...

"When these gases are ranked by their contribution to the greenhouse effect, the most important are:

water vapor, which contributes 36–70%
carbon dioxide, which contributes 9–26%
methane, which contributes 4–9%
ozone, which contributes 3–7%
The major non-gas contributor Earth's greenhouse effect, clouds, also absorb and emit infrared radiation and thus have an effect on radiative properties of the greenhouse gases"

reply to post by Shere Khaan

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I would hope they'd go to the science and learn a few things. Maybe out and get a life.

reply to post by dead-to-me

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Technical Point: Ozone has # all to do with global warming. It stops carcinogous UV rays. You may be mistaking this debate for ChloroFlouroCarbons which eat up ozone were in aerosols up to twenty years ago and are a massive greenhouse effect in their own right.

They had a life when they PREDICTED global warming in the 1970s. None of the anti global warming theory has any Predictive power and the 'theory' is made up after the event, discounting global warming, Co2, famine, desertification, extreme events and whatever else is inconvenient.

[edit on 1/1/2009 by redled]

i'm a bit of a skeptic on both sides of this fence, climate change science seems to make sense -if we have loads of extra carbon in the air the earth will warm up due to the reflection of less active heat which is reflected from the earth and normally reflects into space, this much is undeniable however carbon credits and carbon trading programs seem like a ploy to control the world.

true complex system such as the atmosphere, sun, earth temperate relationship are far too complex for us to understand and model at the moment but that doesn't mean we know nothing, with the melting sea ice it does make sense that due to the currents and sunspot oddness or even the lack of polar precipitation in 08 made theworld extra cold which would make a thin layer of pack ice over a large area - this will most likely all melt when the increased sun spot activity, etc causes 09 to warn up even hotter that 07 was.

people still debate weather the sea level could rise, i can only assume these people don't live on top of limestone rocks like i do which were put down last time the sea levels were much higher.

however does this mean that we're already doomed to die as the world switches off? no, probably not -maybe we'll see a rapid increase in fertile carbon eating forests in areas which have been desert, maybe the higher humidity will cause the rain forests to spread, maybe the atomosphere will do something odd and balance out of its own accord, maybe more carbon will be absorbed by a massive super bloom of sea algie - we don't know.

i just think while we're not really sure we should play it safe, if i didn't know weather or not a gun was loaded i wouldn't point it at my head to find out - then again i wouldn't take it to a gun fight until i had checked either,

personally i have a strange feeling that the amount of heaters pumping hot air into our atmosphere must in some way be connected to the recorded rise in temperature, i seem to remember thermodynamics suggesting that all that heat will just subtly add to the background heat as it dissipates but never dies. That doesn't mean i will be making any long term property investments in the netherlands any time soon though, whatever is causing this it looks as if shares in boating companys are a better bet - the climate does seem to be changing, just the fact that it was the largest change ever recorded is enough of a sign that the old pattern had been broken.

reply to post by Jay-in-AR

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Exactly correct, and that is why the Bush administration lied and covered up the science which revealed that global warming is a fact! Come on people, you constantly slam Al Gore for making money on global warming and yet completely turn away from the fact that the richest entities on earth (fossil fuel and corporations) have EVERY REASON to fight the truth about man made climate change!!

In fact, that is why so many of their minions work ceaselessly on this board and the internet to cause us to believe that 2000+ of the worlds leading peer reviewed scientists are more ignorant of their field than the likes of Rush Limbaugh and his arm chair climate scientists!! I hope the folks that are really searching for the truth in this matter will see right thru this anti global warming charade. It's life on this planet that stands to loose out with this folly (of course that doesn't seem to bother those one bit whose mission seems to be in degrading those thousands of scientists who have devoted their whole lives to studying these things).

[edit on 1-1-2009 by whatsup]