Brief history lesson for the ongoing current events happening in Gaza

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posted on Jan, 1 2009 @ 09:45 PM
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Well first, most of the Middle East was nomads hence the reason the Brits and French needed to draw lines, and those countries had little say in what lines were drawn, whether they agreed or disagreed. Jordan and Israel were not created by war but by the stronger power dictating what will be. (I did say war or the strong over the weak)



And so I think it's time to leave the middle east alone, and let the people take back what is theirs since they have been dwelling there for generations.



Sure if the Palestinians feel that way, but then don't complain if Israel wipes them off the map, as a stronger nation could, does, did, will
throughout our human history.

Why should I not, I take the side of the disfavorite people that are entitled
to the land there.I can't be an egomaniac ass kissing vilified nut case that go's with the current fashon.



It just seems every country in the world but Israel is not questioned about their legit right to exist. To suggest the 2 million in the Gaza Strip have the right as a nation when Jordan is their nation as history has dictated,

History shows otherwise, maps of diferent times do the same.



and as most of the Middle East denies Israel’s right to be a nation as all the other Muslin nations are not challenged too is hypocritical to say the least.

They are not obligated to accept Israel, and why should they, because others tell them to?






They were nomads and had no nation or borders. This is bull crap to say they have a right to be a nation, or are the true owner of a plot of land and so have all said rights…under what law..

You got the definition wrong.
Nomads:
A member of a group of people who have no fixed home and move according to the seasons from place to place in search of food, water, and grazing land.
A person with no fixed residence who roams about; a wanderer.
Nomad people are usualy the invaders

They were tribal people, indigenous and they have existed there from the begining until the state of Israel was created against their will, can you understand that?




So what do we do with them? It seems they do not even want to help themselves. As I said lines are drawn, and to think they would be handed the keys over 12 million Jews and their countries assets is not going to happen.

You forgot to count the ones in the West Bank, you forgot to count the ones that ran away in exile out of fear.If you research history Palestinians were the last ones to cause problems, they were calm people.That changed of course when Israel came in town.



Wow, "no one" is a lot of countries...as I said...If...anyone...sees...Syria...Iraq...and most importantly Jordan as countries then Israel is a country.... enough said on that.

Not saying it's not a state, just stating that it's a fraud and it should not be there.



Ok, I guess you run out of ideas. I guess 5 million jews are a fraud..what do we do with them?

Nothing, it's time to do nothing at all, why do other people have to give instructions to other people and place people as they think?
State of Israel go's away by doing nothing and not supporting anything, the Jews and the Palestinians go about their bussines and find an understanding, everything go's the way it was before any of this started, and people there coexist with eachother.


[edit on 1-1-2009 by pepsi78]




posted on Jan, 1 2009 @ 09:54 PM
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Originally posted by pepsi78
Evil powers are at work and are playing with crayions drawing borders and then calling it legal.


It´s ok, say the name.... Denominate the Beast...

The World According To The Rothschild Crime Family

S&F. Go Pepsi.



posted on Jan, 1 2009 @ 10:47 PM
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Originally posted by pepsi78

And so I think it's time to leave the middle east alone, and let the people take back what is theirs since they have been dwelling there for generations.


So I guess you don't mind another Dafur.



Why should I not, I take the side of the disfavorite people that are entitled
to the land there.I can't be an egomaniac ass kissing vilified nut case that go's with the current fashon.


Are you just assuming they are entitled by some right you made up?, and if there was a disfavorite people it would be the Jews...I don't see the Jews preaching to wipe anyone off the face of the earth as others would be willing to do to them.

If 5 million Jews were displaced or died would you cry in their loss?




History shows otherwise, maps of diferent times do the same.


What map? It all was one big Ottman Empire, and every part of what the Brits and French did is ok except for Israel...hmmm



They are not obligated to accept Israel, and why should they, because others tell them to?


Boy, I guess you are arguing to argue....

Do you accept Syria, Jordan and Iraq? why?




They were tribal people, indigenous and they have existed there from the begining until the state of Israel was created against their will, can you understand that?


With no borders and they were nomads that traveled around. I understand that Jordan was created as the Muslin Palestine state, and is a country today, and Israel was the Jewish Palestine state, which is a country today just like Jordan is. What is there not to understand with this?




You forgot to count the ones in the West Bank, you forgot to count the ones that ran away in exile out of fear.If you research history Palestinians were the last ones to cause problems, they were calm people.That changed of course when Israel came in town.


Jews are Palestinians too, or how far back in history do we need to go?




Nothing, it's time to do nothing at all, why do other people have to give instructions to other people and place people as they think?
State of Israel go's away by doing nothing and not supporting anything, the Jews and the Palestinians go about their bussines and find an understanding, everything go's the way it was before any of this started, and people there coexist with eachother.


Wow we agree on something...


What I want to see is the Gaza Strip disappear and those people there become Israel citizens as they become a member of a society living among each other in harmony. Other nations refuse to do this and so Israel their enemy is also their only hope.


[edit on 1-1-2009 by Xtrozero]



posted on Jan, 1 2009 @ 11:35 PM
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Are you just assuming they are entitled by some right you made up?

No, I did not make anything up, are you insisting that Palestinians were non existant in that area? Please provide your findings within a source otherwise it's just hot talk.



and if there was a disfavorite people it would be the Jews...I don't see the Jews preaching to wipe anyone off the face of the earth as others would be willing to do to them.

They are not preaching it, they are doing it, and it's now on tv.I must say it's just some jews not all of them.



If 5 million Jews were displaced or died would you cry in their loss?

Displaced where? Some of them are displaced in Iran for example and they don't seem to mind since they do not want to go back to Israel.
They would probaly be dispalced in the area where Israel is now, meaning the same area, meaning no one would go anywhere. I would feel sorry for the Jews if anything happend and this is in general and not regarding the current events , but not for the ones that are running the show now, droping bombs and killing people, I would prefere they would stand trial as criminals and get served behind bars.





What map? It all was one big Ottman Empire, and every part of what the Brits and French did is ok except for Israel...hmmm

Alot of countries were under the ottoman empire, it does not mean people vanished from that area.Tributes were paied to the sultan.The sultan's army strengh was based on the inhabitants of what ever area it ocupied.
My country was under the Otoman Empire rule and it's in Europe.
In fact most of the Eastern Europe was under the Otoman Empire but I guess we are still here aren't we.





Do you accept Syria, Jordan and Iraq? why?

Do you accept Israel why? back at you.



With no borders and they were nomads that traveled around.

North American indians did not declare that they had a country either, I guess everyone is a nomad acording to your theory.
To my knowlege nomads are migratory people that move vast distances, traveling betwen continets, spreading everywhere not to a specific area, like huns for example.



I understand that Jordan was created as the Muslin Palestine state, and is a country today, and Israel was the Jewish Palestine state, which is a country today just like Jordan is. What is there not to understand with this?

The definition of palestine or palestinians does not include jewish heritage and it is another thing.


Here for a definition.


Thus all of the people in this time and place can be called Canaanites.Philistia,The Philistines(known today as Palestinians) were people who lived in Canaan along the Mediterranean coast

and then other people came called:

Israelites sought to occupy the land. They were centered in five cities called the Philistine Pentapolis: Ashkelon Ashdod Ekron Gath and Gaza ... and their presence is mentioned in the Bible and Ancient Egyptian texts.[1]

See the difrece now?
Not about who was first but about difrence.
Here it is in one pice.


Canaanite Period (Bronze Age) 3300–1200 BCE
The use of the term Canaanite can be confusing. Archaeologists use it to refer to a long period of time (the entire Bronze Age) and a wide geographical region (ranging from modern Israel to the entire Levant). Thus all of the people in this time and place can be called Canaanites.Philistia,The Philistines(known today as Palestinians) were people who lived in Canaan along the Mediterranean coast at the time the Israelites sought to occupy the land. They were centered in five cities called the Philistine Pentapolis: Ashkelon Ashdod Ekron Gath and Gaza ... and their presence is mentioned in the Bible and Ancient Egyptian texts.[1]

Jewish Palestine state does not exist as a valid definition because the definition of palestine has nothing to do with Jewish people.






What I want to see is the Gaza Strip disappear and those people there become Israel citizens as they become a member of a society living among each other in harmony. Other nations refuse to do this and so Israel their enemy is also their only hope.

It will never happen in a Zionist controled area.The zionists have to give control up and then another thing has to be formed.Difrent flag, difrent name, difrent everything without one group leading the other.



posted on Jan, 2 2009 @ 12:16 AM
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Originally posted by pepsi78
No, I did not make anything up, are you insisting that Palestinians were non existant in that area? Please provide your findings within a source otherwise it's just hot talk.


No I agree they had same rights back then and they even were 80% of the population over the Jews, but the powers of that time, namely the Brits and French were partners in splitting up the Ottoman empire and the results are what we see today. I’m not saying it was right or wrong, but just the way it was/is, and if anyone sees Syria, Iraq and Jordan as states than Israel is one too…that’s all I’m saying...

If Israel is a fraud then it is all a fraud.





droping bombs and killing people,


Random rockets on the 26 from Hamas led to the bombings on the 27th...
Hamas is the leadership there, so what is Israel to do? When it comes to combat there is no such thing as a fair fight, you got all out. Maybe if the ruling party didn't keep launching rockets Isarel would not bomb back...

It is stupidity on Hamas part to do what they do knowing full well what the reprisals would be...well unless there are other motives on Hamas part that they are willing to put their population in danger for. Not everything is black and white my firend.





Alot of countries were under the ottoman empire, it does not mean people vanished from that area.Tributes were paied to the sultan.The sultan's army strengh was based on the inhabitants of what ever area it ocupied.
My country was under the Otoman Empire rule and it's in Europe.
In fact most of the Eastern Europe was under the Otoman Empire but I guess we are still here aren't we.


So why is Israel is fruad then? I'm not understanding your point. All I'm saying is Jordan and Egypt is were they should be, but no, they are living on some little strip of a hellhole.





Do you accept Israel why? back at you.



I accept Israel for the same reason I accept Syria, Jordan and Iraq as countries. I see the Gaza Strip as refugees that should have been moved to Jordan a long time ago, or had become Egyptiians decades ago when they were under Egyptian rule.

But all that wasn't done and so it is Isael's fault today. I just want the blame on the shoulders of where them blame should be.



North American indians did not declare that they had a country either, I guess everyone is a nomad acording to your theory.
To my knowlege nomads are migratory people that move vast distances, traveling betwen continets, spreading everywhere not to a specific area, like huns for example.


No, what I'm saying is how can you or anyone say a 8 by 4 mile strip of land is theirs by right when you could say Jordan, Iraq, Syria or Egypt is theirs by right too.



Canaanite Period (Bronze Age) 3300–1200 BCE


Once again I'm not saying they were not there, but how far back do we need to go? I guess for Syria. Iraq and Jordan it is ok to go back to the Brits and French that made it all. Honestly I care little for what happen in 3300 BC or even 1800 AC. The reason is I accept what is in place now that was created by the world powers.




It will never happen in a Zionist controled area.The zionists have to give control up and then another thing has to be formed.Difrent flag, difrent name, difrent everything without one group leading the other.


Why? There are people who live in Israel who are not Jewish. Nothing needs to be different, but Hamas would need to allow for the ruling party in Israel to be their ruling party too.

BTW you have not even touched on your thoughts as to why Egypt and Jordan didn't fix this problem decades ago when they had the responsibility to do so.



posted on Jan, 2 2009 @ 12:43 AM
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Random rockets on the 26 from Hamas led to the bombings on the 27th...
Hamas is the leadership there, so what is Israel to do? When it comes to combat there is no such thing as a fair fight, you got all out. Maybe if the ruling party didn't keep launching rockets Isarel would not bomb back...

You can't be serios, they are just firing rockets out of anger and frustration, there is no real target, it's shooting for the stars and leting Israel know that they can fire over Israel.There are no targets, and if there are not targets then they are not targeting anything.




So why is Israel is fruad then? I'm not understanding your point. All I'm saying is Jordan and Egypt is were they should be, but no, they are living on some little strip of a hellhole.

Jordan and Egipt? they are living on some little strip of a hellhole. ? They were there all the time from the begining and nowhere else and they just got pushed aside after Israel prepared to get in existance, and now while Israel is in to being.What don't you get, where Israel is now they have the same right and even more since they were the first there?



I accept Israel for the same reason I accept Syria, Jordan and Iraq as countries. I see the Gaza Strip as refugees that should have been moved to Jordan a long time ago, or had become Egyptiians decades ago when they were under Egyptian rule.

Nobody needs to be pushed away from what is truly theirs.



Once again I'm not saying they were not there, but how far back do we need to go? I guess for Syria. Iraq and Jordan it is ok to go back to the Brits and French that made it all. Honestly I care little for what happen in 3300 BC or even 1800 AC. The reason is I accept what is in place now that was created by the world powers.

Is not that they were the first there, they were there in the bronze age, in the roman period, in the bizantine empire era, and when the jews came back they were there also.For that reason they can not be pushed aside for another group to build something and just push them aside.They were there for generations, you can't just take people , push them , intimidate them and then expect they will act like little dorks and leave.


You are trying to move people and cheat history by moving them to another area, Egypy was a civilisation long ago,the palestinians had a small portion left where today Israel is, when the Jews came back no one had problems with them and no body minded them, it was when the idea of Israel to be created and to screw what they had left.

Back at you Jewish people are nomads because they left and were all over the freaking Europe, does that suit you?

Independence and total authority by a group in that area is not posible without conflict.



posted on Jan, 2 2009 @ 12:51 AM
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What bothers me even more is the tragic history palestinians have, they were always invaded by some other empire, always paid a price, always disfavored, and now today the same thing is happening again.
It's just a matter of time before people get pushed in to the abys of madnes and do anything, from radical behavior for some to total loss of hope for others just because a bunch of people decided to take a pencil and draw lines.


[edit on 2-1-2009 by pepsi78]



posted on Jan, 2 2009 @ 02:31 AM
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Originally posted by pepsi78

Naw I'm done...

I said my points and we are just going around in circles now in you feel they own all that land while not reconizing Jordan is their country, and I feel the lines drawned in the earily 1900s is what created Syria, Jordan, Iraq and Israel, and if one of then is legit then all are.

I do not buy into an argument that since they been there the longest they have the right to the land over others. Is it fair? Maybe not, but life isn't fair, just ask the American Indians, Mayans, Africans and many others. So much more go into play than this when borders are formed, and somewhere someone will get screwed anytime a border is moved or made, but as I have said many times, in this case if Jordan or Egypt did the right thing decades ago this would not be an issue today.

[edit on 2-1-2009 by Xtrozero]



posted on Jan, 2 2009 @ 02:52 PM
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Naw I'm done...

I said my points and we are just going around in circles now in you feel they own all that land while not reconizing Jordan is their country

Look Palestinian cities are mentioned in History book , Gaza included.
Palestinians cities were where Israel is and where Israel is grabing land.

As for Jordanians here we go.
en.wikipedia.org...


The earlier roots of Jordan as an independent state can be traced back to The Kingdom of Petra, which was founded by The Nabataeans (Arabic: الأنباط, Al-Anbāt) an ancient Arabic Semitic people who invented the North Arabic Script that evolved into the Modern Arabic script.



Other Jordanians belonging to religious minorities include adherents to the Druze and Bahá'í Faith. The Druze are mainly located in the Eastern Oasis Town of Azraq and the city of Zarka, while the Village of Adassiyeh bordering the Jordan Valley is home to Jordan's Bahá'í community.



Other people, other culture, I'm sorry you can't cheat history.

As for other remarks all the people in the area were called cannaanites, but not all were philistines.When I say area I'm refering to the whole reginon , Jordan, Egypt, Israel
en.wikipedia.org...


Thus all of the people in this time and place can be called Canaanites.Philistia,The Philistines(known today as Palestinians) were people who lived in Canaan along the Mediterranean coast


I win. The state of Israel is imoral and a scam.


[edit on 2-1-2009 by pepsi78]



posted on Jan, 2 2009 @ 03:19 PM
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reply to post by pepsi78
 


Actually Wikipedia isn't a good source to use to prove your point because any Idiot can get on their and type anything they want, try using history books to prove it, or newspapers not some dictionary made by internet users...

The Canaanite people were completely killed off, so there is none of their offspring to make a claim to the land, the ARAB so called palestinians came out of Egypt and Jordon for the most part but were kicked out of those regions.

The oldest known settlement in the region has been settled by Hebrews/Jews for over 3000 years and this settlement is talked about in a1905 NY Times newspaper story as well as Mark Twain's own account of the Holy Land from the late 1800's if I aint mistaken.

So you see there are no Palestinians unless you refer to the REGION as Palestine and then it would be anyone Born there, so all the Jews and Arabs born there would be called Palestinians. The word Palestinian was a Racial slur in Roman times in the region, it was also a Slander on Jews not arabs. They called Hebrews/Jews Palestinians as a play on the word Phillistine which were mortal enemies of the Jews/Hebrews.

Arafat was Egyptian born and was not even a Palestinian by the loosest definition and his wife is American and living in France. Palestinians are squatters sitting on Israeli Land and hated by those arab nations around the region. Jordon killed thousands and thousands of them before they went to Israel, this was in the last 100 years so it should be easy for you to find...

Glad I could teach you some things about the history of the region!



posted on Jan, 2 2009 @ 03:28 PM
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The Canaanite people were completely killed off, so there is none of their offspring to make a claim to the land, the ARAB so called palestinians came out of Egypt and Jordon for the most part but were kicked out of those regions.

Canaanite people are not all the same.
You got a source to back that up anyway.



The oldest known settlement in the region has been settled by Hebrews/Jews for over 3000 years and this settlement is talked about in a1905 NY Times newspaper story as well as Mark Twain's own account of the Holy Land from the late 1800's if I aint mistaken.

That is total propaganda to me.



So you see there are no Palestinians unless you refer to the REGION as Palestine and then it would be anyone Born there, so all the Jews and Arabs born there would be called Palestinians.

Jews has nothing to do with palestinians, that is just your opinion.They came later and wanted to ocupy the land.




Arafat was Egyptian born and was not even a Palestinian

I'm sure people emigrate from time to time.



posted on Jan, 2 2009 @ 03:35 PM
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reply to post by pepsi78
 


I can see by your last post what you are and I am not interested i playing your dumb game, have a nice day and Iggy for you...

I can see someone who is trying to understand the situation wanting to look at history but to throw out the NY Times and refute other historical sources out of hand with " I don't believe it it is propaganda" tells me who I am dealing with. You want nothing but people that agree with you and that is fine, but don't pretend you are correct because you are not and everyone but Jew Haters, muslims, nazis and klaners are pretty aware of the history of the region...

You have a nice day though Buy Bye



posted on Jan, 2 2009 @ 03:40 PM
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Since you do not trust wikypedia, I do not know why because all the content is verified that it comes from trustworthy sources, then I figure I take another one.


Is Enciclopedia Britanica a good source for you?
www.britannica.com...


who, against great odds, founded the Judaean dynasty and carved out an empire from the border of Egypt to the Euphrates River. His first and greatest enemies were the Philistines, who controlled Palestine and kept the Tyrians and Sidonians from prospering on the sea. By training the Israelite infantry, especially the bowmen, he proved more than a match for Philistine and other foes who...


I guess the Philistines were around weren't they?
Since the Philistines were part of the Canaanite population I guess there is nothing to dissmis their existance and continuity.
I would trust this source more than the NY Times when it comes to history.



[edit on 2-1-2009 by pepsi78]



posted on Jan, 2 2009 @ 04:06 PM
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What are your sources for continuity? So far you use only name of the region that was given to it at least several centuries after fall of last of Palestinian city-states.
Continuity is in tradition/religion/history/ethnicity. What is in common between current population and ancient one?
Only name.
When there was national movement of Paletinians for 3000 years?



posted on Jan, 2 2009 @ 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
What are your sources for continuity? So far you use only name of the region that was given to it at least several centuries after fall of last of Palestinian city-states.

He disregarded it and told me that they were long gone before jews came ,and I provided a link from Enciclopedia Britanica showing that they were around in at the time of Solomon.
As for the source where it sustains the continuity here it is.


Thus all of the people in this time and place can be called Canaanites.Philistia,The Philistines(known today as Palestinians)


www.newsflavor.com...


The Palestinians are the modern day descendants of two ancient civilizations - the Canaanites and the Philistines. According to early history and the Bible, the present day land was called the Land of Canaan and the Canaanites ruled the area. Their society was fragmented with a city-state-like structure where each area or city had it own king with political and religious duties. The Canaanites came to power at around 3,000 BCE but their kingdom systematically fell to invasion from ancient Israelis freed from their bondage in Egypt.

Happy? all in a short paragraph.


[edit on 2-1-2009 by pepsi78]



posted on Jan, 2 2009 @ 04:34 PM
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reply to post by pepsi78
 


Don't beat around the bush, you must know that wiki has a whole page dedicated to the false claims your making....

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Jan, 2 2009 @ 04:45 PM
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reply to post by Founding
 


From the source you just posted.


"the early ancestors of some of today's Palestinians are no doubt the Canaanites, Philistines, Phoenicians, Egyptians, Idumaeans, Nabateans and Samaritans"

Kermit Zarley is a well kown international historian, I guess it does not matter , history, arhology, so go fox news.


You know what It does not matter what source I post, it may be very well fox news, probaly the one you guide by, and it would still not be good enough for you.If news outlets, wiky, britanica won't do it for you then I;m sorry for you.



[edit on 2-1-2009 by pepsi78]



posted on Jan, 2 2009 @ 05:01 PM
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reply to post by pepsi78
 


Happy or not - the article is hardly objective. For example - it says that Israelis captured Canaanite cities. True. But the Philistines - that came before Israelis - did the same to the same Canaanites and it is elegantly not mentioned.
Also in the top there is acknowledgment that Palestine - was a name given by Romans!!!True. But they appeared in the area only in 200BC. When last Philistine city was destroyed and its population changed for more then century. And the name was changed to Palestine by Romans only in the 1AD. It is also elegantly not noticed.
And the main thing - since author also does not think that the name alone is not enough for claims - there is no proof that it is the same population. No where.
By the way - if you are correct and Palestinians now are really descendent's of ancient Philistine, why there was no unique national identity for more then 3 thousand years? After all ancient Philistines were noticeable ethnic group that fought not only with Israel/Judea but even with Alexander the Great. And then no traces - historical,national, cultural - until as i said already politics demand that it better to be so. Occam razor works brilliantly in this case. Jew living in Israel/Palestine was known as a Jew. Arab living in Palestine was known as an Arab. Nobody was Philistine as nationality or ethnic group.



posted on Jan, 2 2009 @ 05:20 PM
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reply to post by pepsi78
 


I like how you use a quote with the words some and imply that it proves all your points.


Why don't you look around the link I posed some more. You will find that both jews and arabs share a genetic link with the ancient population of Israel.



posted on Jan, 2 2009 @ 05:20 PM
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There are a lot of strange elements and threads running through the history of the place.

I've seen documented evidence, for example, that during the late thirties, when Germany's immigration laws prohibited jews from leaving Germany, there were Jews who had escaped to Jerusalem or Hebron, who were handed over to the nazis by the Palestinian arabs to be deported back to Germany.
Zionist propaganda? Not if it happened.

I've seen documented evidence, also for example, that in the first days of Israel declaring itself a state, and establishing the borders of that state, Israeli commandos went in to many palestinian villages at night, attacking not so much with guns (which would alert the whole village) but with knives, killing women and teenagers with hand held bayonets.
Palestinian propaganda? Not if it happened.





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