Originally posted by Gorden
Text Green
Hello there

Hello

To VinceP1974 You said ... Rome never conquered all of Babylon .....

True ! -- well i think you are right ... would be wrong for me to define true and wrong ...

OK i think you are right there But in the war that is discriped in the Bible it never talks about ALL OF the globe..... it only talks about that part of our globe that is populated with Gods children ... and there neighbor enemy..

Hi.. There are several symbols of the End Days Empire that suggest that the End Time must incorporate the footprint , or land-area, of the historical Biblical Empires.

One of them is the Statue in Daniel 2. Note how the 4th (and last) Empire of the Iron Legs is said to trample on all the preceded metals.. That means that the lands of those past empires now finds itself under control of this 4th Empire.

The first 3 empires of the Statue are Babylon, Persia, Greece.

The Roman Empire never occupied most of the Babylon's land, and never any of Persia's Land, and Only some of Greece's. Greek empire went all the way to India.

The Islamic Caliphate that destroyed Rome does rule the land of those three empires.

When the Rock from Heaven is hurled at the feet of the statue.. the entire statue is destroyed.. Note it all gets destroyed at once.. that means the last empire is not just the feet but the entire statute.

Later on in Daniel there's a vision of three animal beasts these represent three empires, Babylon, Persia and Greece. The animals are Leopard, Bear and Lion,

In Rev 13. there is a beast that "Now the beast that I saw was like a leopard, but its feet were like a bear’s, and its mouth was like a lion’s mouth".. this means the End Time Empire consists of at least those three empires... which are the ones identified in Daniel.

And then in Rev 17 the woman rides the 7 Headed Beast. Note that the beast has 7 heads, one for each of the past Empires, but it itself is an 8th Beast.. the entire thing as a unity is an 8th Empire.

The 8th Empire is a revival of the Islamic Caliphate. Notice that John says many times that neither the 7th or 8th Empire will be the 6th Empire. The 6th Empire is Rome.

Someone (sorry dont know who) said that there is to be a 7 year peace time. ... talked about in the Bible..... Where ???

There is talked about by Daniel a time when Jesus first came the 70 weeks periode - at THAT end there is 7 years when Jesus will give the last appeal to the jewish people.... 7 years ... but that is past ! it ended with Stefans death.

After that the followers of Jesus were send to ALL THE WORLD. also the non jews people. That then markt the end of the 70 weeks period.



To Rev 20:4 The thrones and jugdment is in heaven...
The beheaded people are the once that where killed from the physical and later spiritual Rom... first in Roms arenas and later burned and so on... be- headed is just a collective name for all of them that were killed because they did not adhere to the (then-) Anti christ !!


About Promises of God... i would like to piont out that they are ALLWAYS conditional !!!

Israel did not do there part - but worshiped idols - God did not do his part - to save them as promised !!



One piont i want to give to consider ...

In the near future is sone big thing to happen.. i think we all agree on that.. (?)
If i would be the "Antichrist", i would want every one to look into the wrong direction...
So to look in but one direction, i think is very dangers !!!

The biblical piont of view is, that the last problem is not a real kingdom but a way of thinking.
The Bible points us to the spiritual realm ...or in other words = we are ask to worship the way someone else wants us to....

Also we should consider that this "kingdom" (or way of thinking) is called smart and deceptive. Making people beleive that they are doing right, when they are doing wrong.
and that on a big scale...
But most of world population are NOT muslems.... and they are not by nice words conviced but by the swort !!
Where i see a proplem with the Islam

There i raser beleive that that is the Romen beleive !! They make the people think that all is well when they are changing the law of God (cutting out the 2. law = Exedus 20 and changing the 4. law) and stopping people from going to God (by making them believe that a person can forgive sins....
Maybe you should make a survey about blasvamy in the NT ... that is what the Antichrist is blamed to do
(i will look it up and post the verses soon)

So I take it you think the Bible is fulllfilled. I disagree. Even though the Jews disobeyed, the OT is full of many many prophecies saying that God will restore the Jews after a very very long exile. A 2nd exile (other than the Babylonian) was prophecized. And that exile is during the Church Age.

Even Paul mentions this in Romans

Romans 11:25 For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: A partial hardening has happened to Israel until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved

Paul is teaching that part of Israel will be deaf to God's message about Jesus. Once the word has gone out to all the world and the last Christians come in, then God will return to the Jews and finish His program with them.

Originally posted by VinceP1974

I believe Jesus comes out of the sky and touches down at the Mount of Olives cemetary right outside the gates of the Old City.

Hmmm.....as I expected. According to my knowledge the Dajjal is supposed to appear somewhere between Syria and Iraq.

Originally posted by Slate

Originally posted by VinceP1974

I believe Jesus comes out of the sky and touches down at the Mount of Olives cemetary right outside the gates of the Old City.

Hmmm.....as I expected. According to my knowledge the Dajjal is supposed to appear somewhere between Syria and Iraq.

I dont expect a 100% matching of the two systems. Plus who knows.. maybe he flies around a bit before touching down.

I think that the idea that 1948 is the re-establishment of the Nation of Isreal is a bit premature. If one looks back in Scripture, the workers building Jerusalem were not permitted to live in the city during its construction. They lived South of the city in a low walled compound that the Lord established for them. The workers had to be clensed before entering the city and clensed after their shift. There is also the matter of the sacrifices and rituals that the Levites had to perform before work could even begin and then the same for when the work was complete.

To my knowledge, there were no such sacrifices prior to the 1948 establishment of Isreal. for one, the ritual elements of the practices had been lost to antiquity. THAT means that what we know as the Nation of Isreal today is NOT Biblical. If you are a literalist, then would it not stand to reason that Isreal must be sanctified in the Biblical sense before she can actually be recognized as the Biblical re-establishment of God's Promised Land?

Note that the Southern compound as described in Scripture has been found and verified based upon the Biblical description of its layout and measurements. The cache of ritual ingredients has also been located and verified via Biblical texts. This means that at any time, a group of Levites could perform the rituals and declare Jerusalem a "Holy" city once again. This also is important for the re-building of the Temple as the self same Levites and ritual ingredients can be used to sanctify the Third Temple.

Just something to think about.

Nice Post!

Exactly what I think is gonna happen.

its doubtful that the antichrist comes from Islam considering that most christians would never be deceived by a muslim, nor would christians bow to islam the religion or anything associated with it.

The antichrist will very very appealing to christians, because its the christians that satan wants to deceive.

If you look at history, we see that the popular religion in Christ's day, specifically the religious leaders (Sanhedrin) was dramatically wrong in thier interpretations concerning the bible.

Likewise, the religious christian leaders and believers prior to the 2nd Coming will have a similar following.

If there is going to be an Anti-Christ, wouldn't he need to be Jewish in order for the Jews to think that he is the Messiah they have been waiting for?

Originally posted by VinceP1974

Originally posted by whiteraven
Very interesting read.

I have often thought down these lines but I saw it in a different light.

When you read about Abram or Abraham, depending on what stage of his life you are looking at, the first conflict with in his family centered around the two sons. One was Ishmael and the other was Issac. Ishmael is the father of the Muslim nations. Issac is the child of promise..read St. Paul's apology in Romans...and I see a common thread and culmination between the Child of Promise..Issac..which according to Romans is an archtype of the Church...and Ishmael the child of mans effort to fullfill Gods plan....

The last historic battles/showdowns it seems would take place between the two archtypes or if I said it in Christian terms between Islam and Christians/Jews.


The idea of faith vs works..or Ishmael vs Issac is a central theme in the Pauline revelation.

Star and Flag brother.

I agree with you too... it's very compelling that Ishmael (his tribe) makes a return at the End Time to terrorize Issaac one last time.

It brings a symmetry to the Book of Genesis.

Also, Islam's god , Allah, is really the crescent moon god of war.

When Abram lived in Ur, Ur's chief god, Sin, was the Babylonian chief god of the crescent moon. Allah is Satan.

So not only do you have the blood feud returning to the Jews at the end time.. but these people are also slaves to the "god" that is the Jews enemy.

There are many things I haven't said yet. Islam is preparing the Muslims to do all of the nasty war stuff that the Bible describes. Islam tells Muslims that they will kill every Jew before the Islamic End Time comes..and that Muslims will either convert or kill all the Christians and all other religions. IN the Islamic End Time there will no longer be the option of being a dhimmi.

All religion and all law (Sharia) must be Islam. Islam is the One-World Religion / Government.

It is the force that changes the times and laws.

The End Time believers who die rather than worship Antichrist are described this way:

Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones and seated on them were those who had been given authority to judge. I also saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God

Only one religion beheads people today Islam






[edit on 1-1-2009 by VinceP1974]

[edit on 1-1-2009 by VinceP1974]

Fine, it does all that stuff but then Islam has it's end times too right? Sooo what of it? Who and What will be left over from all world religions collapsing and tearing themselves to wind swept pieces and taking their mindless followers down with them?? I'll let you who will be left, people like me who believe good and evil is within us and not an external force. Cast off the yoke around your neck and follow your own heart, just make sure your conscience is clear after the deed is done since you will never find peace if you go against it's advice.

Originally posted by worldwatcher
I agree, interesting read

I also agree with your assessment and that the final battle that will decide the fate of the entire world and all it's people and their religions will come to down to those of the Jewish and Islamic fate and sadly it will be a relatively small percentage who will end up making the decision for the much larger and more tolerant percentage of each.

Those that follow both the Koran and the Bible are conditioned to believe in self fulfilling the prophecy of the End of Times and both are unwilling to put asides their differences for the value and gift of life we all are given. Only the fall of organized religion will stop the end time prophecy from happening..until spirituality replaces literate interpretation of "the word" from either book, we're all doomed.

We are not all doomed my dear friend, do not despair, every religion will collapse and take their zealots to death with them. The survivors (non zealot, well balanced people) will sit back and observe them remove themselves from the gene pool and we will rejoice good and evil is within you, the battle is won in your own mind. Set yourselves free, recognize your faults and fix them to improve yourself so that the world as a whole improves.
This is the change you seek, the saved will be those that follow their hearts and fix themselves and wait for the new golden age.

No more sunsets and night
Its day break now my love
The darkness has subsided
I look into your eyes now
I am the love we make

I was listening to a highly educated and erudite Muslim scholar who accepted Jesus just yesterday on the radio speaking on this very idea. He made some really good points that I had never considered, especially since he was linking passages in the Koran to prophecy in Revelation.

Originally posted by SailorinAZ
If there is going to be an Anti-Christ, wouldn't he need to be Jewish in order for the Jews to think that he is the Messiah they have been waiting for?

To me, this would make the most sense, as the anti-christ appears to make a treaty with Israel to kick off the final 7 years of Daniel's 70 weeks of years. The Jews simply will not trust anyone else. As you say, we should keep in mind that the Jewish people are still looking for their messiah, since they rejected Jesus as their deliverer. And keeping this in mind, I think that the anti-christ must also "claim" verifiable Davidic lineage in order to completely fulfill OT qualifications for their messiah. They are not ignorant of their scriptures, but they will be terribly deceived, if I understand their scriptures correctly.