Originally posted by VinceP1974

11:38 What he will honor is a god of fortresses – a god his fathers did not acknowledge he will honor with gold, silver, valuable stones, and treasured commodities.

A god of fortresses is a war god. The moon god is a war god. I dont know what to make of the god his fathers did not give gifts to. I would have to do more historical research to know.

I went looking for information about gold and Islam. And I found this:

In the beginning the Muslims used gold and silver by weight and the dinar and dirhams that they used were made by the Persians.

Under what was known as the coin standard of the Khalif Umar Ibn al-Khattab, the weight of 10 dirhams (silver) was equivalent to 7 dinars (gold) (mithqals).

In the year 75 (695 CE) the Khalifah Abdalmalik ordered Al-Hajjaj to mint the first dirhams, thus he established officially the standard of Umar Ibn al-Khattab. In the next year he ordered the dirhams to be minted in all the regions of the Dar al-Islam. He ordered that the coins be stamped with the sentence: "Allah is Unique, Allah is Eternal". He ordered the removal of human figures and animals from the coins and that they be replaced with letters.

This command was then carried on throughout all the history of Islam. The dinar and the dirham were both round, and the writing was stamped in concentric circles. Typically on one side it was written the "tahlil" and the "tahmid", that is, "la ilaha ill'Allah" and "alhamdulillah"; and on the other side was written the name of the Amir and the date. Later on it became common to introduce the blessings on the Prophet, salla'llahu alayhi wa sallam, and sometimes, ayats of the Qur'an.

Gold and silver coins remained official currency until the fall of the Khalifate. Since then, dozens of different national currencies were made in each of the new postcolonial national states created from the dismemberment of Dar al-Islam.

History has demonstrated repeatedly that paper money has been a permanent instrument of default and reducing the wealth of the Muslims. In addition, Islamic Law does not permit the use of a promise of payment as a medium of exchange.

So here we find that Islam demands a monetary gold standard , and that Islam used gold and silver coins as its money and did so throughout all the Caliphates up until the Caliphate (Khalifate) was abolished following WW-I.

Note the lament that there is no more a Dar Al Islam... without a Calihphate Islam is not being fully adhered to.

Note their certainty that paper currency will eventually collapse

Then I ran across this hadith

Abu Bakr ibn Abi Maryam reported that he heard the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, say: "A time is certainly coming over mankind in which there will be nothing [left] which will be of use save a dinar and a dirham." (The Musnad of Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal)

A time is coming in the world where only Islamic currency will be remaining.

Islam introduced this requirement to the Arabs, it was not around in Pre-Islamic times.

SO this is yet another possible literal fullfment of the Bible by Islam.

a quote from the Book of Destiny, by rev Hermand Kramer
Mohammedanism is a religion of crude materialism; it reduced the moral standards of its adherents to animalism; it abolished the Christian standards of self restraint and self denial; its spirituality is an affected oriental fanaticism; it upholds thievery, robbery and slavery against all unbelievers, and promises a heaven of sensual delights. It not only brought spiritual death to the regions it conquered but a bloody death to all who opposed its progress.

he puts the arival of islam into the world into the place of the second trumpet, the burning mountain that turns a third of the sea to blood
and islam did certainly destroy a third of the Christian world
the third trumpet and the fallen star he places as Luther with his great schism, wormwood acuratly describes Luthers doctrine which deviated Christians from true communion with Christ in the Holy Eucharist and from true reconciliation, Luther did indeed devastate a third of Christianity at the time
the antichrist's civilisation is a combination of all the antichristian movments, but what springs to my mind today is the combination of Islam and Protestanism in the form of Barrack Hussein Obama and the US nation only time will tell

You are all thinking inside of the box! Because of this, each and every one of you point the finger at each other, when you are actually pawns to justify the means to an end. That end you fail to comprehend! The Torah, New Testament and Quran come from the same source. Its the interpretation which changes the belief systems. You are using concepts which exist in all three books to point the finger at what you may consider to be the wrong religion. Americans will point the finger at Islam because they dont understand its message and Arabs will do the same to Christianity. Lets use a little common sense here: If there was such a thing called a devil, he wouldnt want you to follow any religion at all, but follow him. So in order to get the people to not follow any religion, he has to destroy what they already believe in or make them feel like what's there, is inadequate. When we follow the religion of "no religion" (like Star Trek) then that will mark the Biblical End times. The so-called abomination of desolation is right at your doorstep, yet you fail to embrace its existence. There are no governments that use the Torah, Bible or Quran as law to judge its people or make decisions against enemies. They are all skewered by man made written laws, some of which do not exist in any of those books. So to judge a nation of people by what its government does, in the name of religion is thinking inside the box. If the Antichrist, as many of you suggest, teams with the so-called islamic governments please keep in mind that we are an ally of Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Nigeria and Egypt. Does that mean that we get a free pass because we're American Christians? You say that nations which are non-muslim will not be destroyed??? HELLOOOOOO... what happened to Germany, 1945 - a
Christian nation? The words Jehovah, the Father, Allah (al Ilah - meaning the GOD - equivalent to "el" "elah" and "elohim") all refer to the same GOD who created Adam in the beginning. How can any be the AntiChrist? This ignorance at its highest degree. So as to not digress from my point, I dropped the key inside, so now all you have to do is pick it up, open the door and get outside of the box!

your quotes were edifying vince, cheers

its important to point out that when an islamic tells a Christian…
we all believe in the same god and that there is no need for any religious affiliation since this god has shown himself in every religion and pagan belief thru a common spirit in man

well a muslim can say what ever he wants to confuse a non muslim and still hold to his violent faith piously with out any remorse for lying against his allah, any tactic are blessed by there militant leader mohamed it is a war after all, a jihad, a constant struggle against the civilization of Christ

This is info about the founder of Sufi, Al- Ghazai

Al—Ghazali (1058—1111), who was born at Tus in Khurasan, near modern Meshed, Iran, and became a renowned theologian, jurist, and mystic. Al—Ghazali's early training was as a jurist, and he continued to have an interest in jurisprudence throughout his career, writing a work the Wadjiz, dated 1101, i.e., in the last decade of his life. The eminent Islamic scholar W.M. Watt stresses Al—Ghazali's Muslim orthodoxy. Watt maintains that Al—Ghazali was [3]

...acclaimed in both the East and West as the greatest Muslim after Muhammad, and he is by no means unworthy of that dignity...He brought orthodoxy and mysticism into closer contact...the theologians became more ready to accept the mystics as respectable, while the mystics were more careful to remain within the bounds of orthodoxy.

Al—Ghazali, a Sufi orthodox Muslim, and follower of the Shafi'i school of Islamic jurisprudence, wrote this about jihad war and the treatment of the vanquished non—Muslim dhimmi peoples, in the Wadjiz: [4]

[O]ne must go on jihad (i.e., warlike razzias or raids) at least once a year...one may use a catapult against them [non—Muslims] when they are in a fortress, even if among them are women and children. One may set fire to them and/or drown them...If a person of the Ahl� al—Kitab [People of The Book — primarily Jews and Christians] is enslaved, his marriage is [automatically] revoked...One may cut down their trees...One must destroy their useless books. Jihadists may take as booty whatever they decide...they may steal as much food as they need...

[T]he dhimmi is obliged not to mention Allah or His Apostle...Jews, Christians, and Majians must pay the jizya [poll tax on non—Muslims]...on offering up the jizya, the dhimmi must hang his head while the official takes hold of his beard and hits [the dhimmi] on the protruberant bone beneath his ear [i.e., the mandible]... They are not permitted to ostentatiously display their wine or church bells...their houses may not be higher than the Muslim's, no matter how low that is. The dhimmi may not ride an elegant horse or mule; he may ride a donkey only if the saddle [—work] is of wood. He may not walk on the good part of the road. They [the dhimmis] have to wear [an identifying] patch [on their clothing], even women, and even in the [public] baths...[dhimmis] must hold their tongue....��

- more to come -

Compare Al—Ghazali's writings, above, to the statements below by two later, prominent Hanbali jurists, Ibn Qudama (d. 1223), and the much demonized Ibn Taymiyya (d.1328). First Ibn Qudama: [5]

Legal war (jihad) is an obligatory social duty (fard—kifaya);� when one group of Moslems guarantees that it is being carried out in a satisfactory manner, the others are exempted.

The jihad becomes a strictly binding personal duty (fard—'ain) for all Moslems who are enlisted or whose country has been [invaded] by the enemy.� It is obligatory only for free men who have reached puberty, are endowed with reason and capable of fighting.� Jihad is the best of the works of supererogation.� Abu Huraira relates that 'The Prophet, when asked what was the best of all works, replied:� Belief in God [and in His Prophet].— And then? someone asked him. — War for God's cause, then a pious pilgrimage.'� Abu Sa'id reports also that the Prophet, when asked who was the best of all men, replied, 'He who fights for God's cause, personally and with his goods.'... It is permitted to surprise the infidels under cover of night, to bombard them with mangonels [an engine that hurls missiles] and to attack them without declaring battle (du'a').� The Prophet attacked the Banu Mustaliq unexpectedly, while their animals were still at the watering—place;� he killed the men who had fought against him and carried off the children into captivity.� It is forbidden to kill children, madmen, women, priests, impotent old men, the infirm, the blind, the weak—minded, unless they have taken part in the combat.�

The chief of State decides on the fate of the men who are taken as prisoners;� he can have them put to death, reduce them to slavery, free them in return for a ransom or grant them their freedom as a gift.� He must choose the solution most in keeping with the common good of the Moslems.��

The jizya can be demanded only from the Peoples of the Book (Ahl—al—Kitab) and from Zoroastrians (Magus), who pledge to pay it and submit to the laws of the community.� The Peoples of the Book are understood to mean the Jews and those who follow the religion of the Torah, as well as the Christians and those who follow the religion of the Gospel.� When People of the Book or Zoroastrians ask to pay the jizya and to submit to the laws of the community, one must grant their request, and it is forbidden to fight them.� The jizya is collected at the beginning of each year. It is set at 48 dirhems for a rich man, at 24 dirhems for a man of moderate means, and at 12 dirhems for a man of lowly estate. It cannot be demanded from children who have not reached the age of puberty, from women, helpless old men, the sick, the blind, or slaves, nor from poor people who are unable to pay it.� An infidel subject to the jizya who converts to Islam is free of this obligation.� When an infidel dies, his heirs are responsible for the jizya.

Ibn Taymiyya: [6]

�
Since lawful warfare is essentially jihad and since its aim is that the religion is God's entirely and God's word is uppermost, therefore according to all Muslims, those who stand in the way of this aim must be fought. As for those who cannot offer resistance or cannot fight, such as women, children, monks, old people, the blind, handicapped and their likes, they shall not be killed unless they actually fight with words (e.g. by propaganda) and acts (e.g. by spying or otherwise assisting in the warfare).

As for the People of the Book and the Zoroastrians (Majūs), they are to be fought until they become Muslims or pay the tribute (jizya) out of hand and have been humbled.

Christ said only through him can you come to the Father
not through the experience of him
another of mohemeds hypocracies, he states that Christ was a prophet, yet Christ himself clearly says who he is, God incarnate through the Virgin Mary, he is the only Son of God (not in the sense we are all God's children)
in the koran mohemed claims that Christ told him (or his voices) exclusivly that this wasnt the case
if mohemed claims Christ was a prophet why doesnt he listen to the words of Christ, and why dont you read the true words of Christ not the ones mohemed wrote, i gave mohemed the benifit of the doubt and read the koran, i only ask you give Christ the same chance and read His true words in the New Testiment not the koran

your words shed as much clarity to me as the words of mohemed.

Text Green
Hello there

i am just reading through all that is posted here.....

i would like to reply first to Whiteraven .... you said Ishmael against Issac means works vs faith ...

I do agree with you there. A little thing i would like to add ... the one is works = because I think i can get myself rightess...
faith = i love God and what he did for me, and therefor i am glad to do good and to help just to make God happy .... because by making others happy i am happy myself.

Someone said = the present makes the giver more happy then the receiver !!


To VinceP1974 You said ... Rome never conquered all of Babylon .....

True ! -- well i think you are right ... would be wrong for me to define true and wrong ...

OK i think you are right there But in the war that is discriped in the Bible it never talks about ALL OF the globe..... it only talks about that part of our globe that is populated with Gods children ... and there neighbor enemy..

At the Time of that Kingdom it was Rom that ruled the (then called) Christian world. ((After Stefans death it was not anymore jews that were Gods people but all that excepted God = Christian ))

Kingdoms are only in the OT realy Kingdoms... after Jesus there is no Kingdom -- that is Gods People but a KIND off people -- everyone who wants to follow God !

That then means -- there is no enemy kingdom - a country or many countrys but the KIND of people.

Which off cause could be Islamic - thinking !!

However i do disagree with that. Please do not get me wrong! I do see the problems and threat that the Islam is giving !!!


Someone (sorry dont know who) said that there is to be a 7 year peace time. ... talked about in the Bible..... Where ???

There is talked about by Daniel a time when Jesus first came the 70 weeks periode - at THAT end there is 7 years when Jesus will give the last appeal to the jewish people.... 7 years ... but that is past ! it ended with Stefans death.

After that the followers of Jesus were send to ALL THE WORLD. also the non jews people. That then markt the end of the 70 weeks period.



To Rev 20:4 The thrones and jugdment is in heaven...
The beheaded people are the once that where killed from the physical and later spiritual Rom... first in Roms arenas and later burned and so on... be- headed is just a collective name for all of them that were killed because they did not adhere to the (then-) Anti christ !!


About Promises of God... i would like to piont out that they are ALLWAYS conditional !!!

Israel did not do there part - but worshiped idols - God did not do his part - to save them as promised !!



One piont i want to give to consider ...

In the near future is sone big thing to happen.. i think we all agree on that.. (?)
If i would be the "Antichrist", i would want every one to look into the wrong direction...
So to look in but one direction, i think is very dangers !!!

The biblical piont of view is, that the last problem is not a real kingdom but a way of thinking.
The Bible points us to the spiritual realm ...or in other words = we are ask to worship the way someone else wants us to....

Also we should consider that this "kingdom" (or way of thinking) is called smart and deceptive. Making people beleive that they are doing right, when they are doing wrong.
and that on a big scale...
But most of world population are NOT muslems.... and they are not by nice words conviced but by the swort !!
Where i see a proplem with the Islam

There i raser beleive that that is the Romen beleive !! They make the people think that all is well when they are changing the law of God (cutting out the 2. law = Exedus 20 and changing the 4. law) and stopping people from going to God (by making them believe that a person can forgive sins....
Maybe you should make a survey about blasvamy in the NT ... that is what the Antichrist is blamed to do
(i will look it up and post the verses soon)