Expiring gunpowder

Sorry if this is the wrong forum, it seems a good fit.

I overheard a guy at Cabellas talking about how Obama is trying to get gunpowder manufacturers to put an additive in the powder that will make it expire after a few years. This would effectively keep anyone from stockpiling ammunition (unless they already have ) Has anyone else heard anything like this?

Hopefully this will never happen as I think it would create a safety issue. You would have ammunition that could only half ignite leaving a round in the barrel.

reply to post by brianhks

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the Anti gun crowd KNOW there is NO WAY to disarm the American public. They are grasping at straws to further their agenda. I'm just wondering what they have up their sleeve if their worried about people massing ammunition.

It would be a definite safety issue.

Most re-loaders have seen round that have been loaded with just a primer or very little powder and how they can blow up a gun.

There is also a problem with certain calibers under loading can cause a blow up due to the powder detonating instead of burning.
as this expiring powder aged it would start to have the same effect as under loading in these rounds.

I have a source for powder that i can use in case they go to this expiring powder.

I know where a closed aerial gunnery range is and with a metal detector i can recover live 20mm rounds and can work up a load for many rounds that i use.

You also have some calibers of ammo that are slow selling a gun stores that may be on thee shelves for years before someone buys it. this is common and some guns stores buy only a few hundred rounds every 5 to 10 years and to get a good deal they may buy 500 rounds and sell it over a 10 year time period,

all these are stupid ideas by anti gun people that have know idea how things work. because they are anti gun.

Oddly, I've always got some really old ammo (20+ years) and much of it "kinda" expires by itself.

Took some old 12gauge shells out, bout 30% of them failed to fire at all and maybe 20% more...burnt out...? They kinda smoked and burnt.

I guess some ammo kinda has a limit on it already...of course I could be completely off base.

Oh Anned.

You stated that "underloaded" ammo could cause an explosion...are you sure that's not the opposite? An underloaded gun can cause a "squib" load that doesn't leave the barrel and fuses it cloased and the follow up cause an explosion...I guess that would make you correct actually.

I have powder that is literaly 10 years old or better and it still functions flawlessly. Its how powder is stored not how old it is! They have tried this before and the manufacturerstold congress in no uncertain terms that unless they a new type of powder not based on nitrocellulos is developed there is no way to formulate a time contraint on powder life. When thety tried to make them put taggants like they do in explosives, congress was told that it would constitute a product liability problem and no powder for anyone including the military or police would be made and they would go out of business. Since the US would be the only one foolish enough to try this i doubt seriously if it will ever come to fruition!!
Zindo

reply to post by SonOfChaos

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Yup, shotgun shells, especialy the paper hulls can and do degrade if not kept in a cool dry enviornment. They are not sealed like rifle or pistol brass or steel cases are. The crimp in shotgun shells will let moisture into the shell if not stored properly! Factory plastic shells are sealed but reloads don't get the extra step of sealent on the crimp!

Zindo



[edit on 1/1/2009 by ZindoDoone]

[edit on 1/1/2009 by ZindoDoone]

The phenomenon known as Secondary Explosive Effect.
it happens to re-loaders that try to load subsonic or light plinking loads

forums.gunbroker.com...
members.shaw.ca...
www.thefirearmsforum.com...

Thanks for the informative uh...information

Good to meet you Anned and ZindoDoone as well.

Oh and a question. Are the subsonic loads mainly used in silencers or are their other uses?

Mostly, it is for the use of silencers, However, There are a few folks in the competetive shooting venue that use them also. In SASS we call them 'Mouse Fart' loads and they are used to 'game' the competition by making it easier and faster to stay on target with a Sixgun. All the rounds have to do is ring the steel so they know it was a hit. They have now put in a rule called the power factor. No loads with a quotient of I think its less than 800 fps. I haven't read the latest Territorial Governors rules changes for 2009 yet.. Anyhow, some 'international small bore' pistols use .22 short rounds and they are subsonic. They also shoot amazingly fast and accurately on certain stages in the dicipline!
Zindo

[edit on 1/2/2009 by ZindoDoone]

I think what they will try to do is to create a date tag on the gunpower using nanotechnology and pass a law that says you cant store ammo over X years and they can test your cartridges for the "date stamp" and if it has "expired" then you will be in violation of the expiration date law. OF course, they just cant come into your house and look for it (unreasonable) but a game warden or other LEO could check your ammo in the field if hunting (like they can check your hunting license) or do a random check at a firing range I suppose.

Wonder where this little nugget came from

I have a hard time believing it would ever pass

-Kyo

They tried to pass this tagant type a few years back. They use it in explosives but its not viable in firearm propelent! It makes the shells unstable. Aliante worked on it initialy but couldn't make it work safely!
Zindo

when they tried to pass the taggant for explosives and found that the most common explosive was ammonium nitrate and it is also used by farmers and used on lawns and other agriculture. This would have caused so much cross contamination that the taggants would have been useless within a short period of time.

it would be a major problem at a outdoor bombing site if the lawn had been fertilized with AN.
or for a building bomb concrete made with rock from a quarry where they blasted with explosives.
or along a highway where trucks loaded with hay pass through.

There also is a problem with chemical taggants getting into the food supply where they might cause health problems
Another taggant they talked about was nanoparticles of metals like aluminum oxide.
Boy were these people nuts. aluminum particals+ammonium nitrate+ water is a common blasting agent. and they wanted to mix the aluminum with farm type fertilizer making farmers use aluminized slurry explosives on there fields.
www.globalsecurity.org...

the last

www.jhuapl.edu...

[edit on 4-1-2009 by ANNED]

ANNED,
Thanks, I was looking for that info but you beat me to it. They also ignore the fact that gun powder is fairly easy to make on your own. A steady hand and some everyday chemicals and some decent knowledge and some experimentation can yield some fine propellent!

Zindo

reply to post by ANNED

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"Another taggant they talked about was nanoparticles of metals like aluminum oxide."
Aluminum oxide is not aluminum. Think sandpaper grit.

I think that this "expiration" rumor may be designed to move a little product from the store shelves. Criminals are not reloaders. The local gangbangers get the ammo and use it but I get the impression that they wouldn't know RCBS from a TV network.

Info:

All gunpowders actually expire if not beeing stored dry and dark.
When a canister of gunpowder has been opened it will expire after some years depending on the storage. If your gunpowder smell like eter and give off a yellow/brown smoke when you shake it means it has "expired" and should not be used.

Reloader
Zykloner

Zykloner ,
That smoke is really various nitrogen oxides that are released as the nitrocellulose decomposes, so you are correct. This is the same gas that gives old or improperly prepared nitroglygcerin it's yellow color...and heightened sensitivity. Don't shake the can too hard.

Zindo, the propellant with the longest shelf life is black powder. There is a certain subset of survivalists that look to flintlocks and crossbows as the long term defense and hunting solution.