Israeli rabbis: Thou shalt kill civilians

Israel can do absolutely nothing alse than to begin a war! Because they want the rockets from Gaza to be stopped and they dont want to give the sacred land away. And Gaza will not stop shooting rockets until they live in Jerusalem - which is not possible.

Why the hell dont Israel give the palestinians some more land and access to economy? So the arabs can bother about something else than terrorism. Maybe the terrorists would stop if they could lead lives in humanity. But maybe they want Jerusalem, for every price. The situation is evil, totally, but what could Israel do, that is a faster and cheaper solution than start a war? In their situation there is no choice. its a lose-lose situation

[edit on 2-1-2009 by Wachstum]

reply to post by marg6043

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Marge,

bother to actually read from the link, not take anyones posted lies.

Read what was actually said, not some member's lies or ignorance.

reply to post by Wachstum

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They did try giving the terorists some more land.

The results were as follows,

They ran up to the new border and started firing rockets and mortars into Israel, from that much closer.

Clearly, that does not work.

Wow. Did dooper just approve of Israeli on Israeli violence? ????

I must read more of this thread! star!

Their crime is in not being born Jewish.

YEP. Here's more info on that -

Telegraph - UK - Hamas is the Obsticle to Peace



Article here

reply to post by dbates

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You know dbates, I recognize that you're a mod(super) and entitled to your opinion.. you even got many stars for the particular post I'm quoting you from.. and I don't really want to get into a feature length debate with you.

But I must say...Israel try their best to attack military targets?! ..IMO an outrageous statement. How do you explain their targeting universities, schools, hospitals, mosques, blocking aid in to Gaza while knowing full well the suffering and death of women and children, and they don't even allow journalists into Gaza(obviously because they don't want anyone to witness the atrocities).

By the way, they are still killing people over there as we speak when there is no need to considering that they are completely superior(militarily) to Hamas.

I could go on more.. but again.. I'm not gonna turn this into a lengthy debate.

Happy New Year everyone!

Majorion

[edit on 2/1/09 by Majorion]

Peculiar that a thread about the comments of 4 Rabbis, as wrong as their statements may be, has brought up such strong feelings.

Consider how many thousands of Fatwas have been issued by radical Islamic clerics endorsing and encouraging the murder of people they disagree with, including fellow Muslims.

The answer given for them is "oh they're extremists, they don't represent mainstream Islam", which is accepted because it's true.

Funny how in the case of extremist opinions coming from Rabbis, instead of the above answer we are given lengthy speeches about the horrible Jewish leaders and inflammatory thread titles.

An interesting example of human behavior.

reply to post by Djarums

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Even though these threads about Israel mostly focus on the atrocities and the constant murders of innocent civilians, most people(including myself) turn this into a debate about religion.

Since you have done so in this case Djarums, and BTW have presented an excellent argument on behalf of Jews in the world and everything you said is true.. but I still feel the need to challenge what you say.

It's true that there are radicals on both sides.. but my question is.. how come the media ALWAYS focus on Islamic radicalism rather than the very real threat of Jewish extremism(which they NEVER mention) ??... I have tried to 'prove' over and over again on ATS that it is Jews whom control all the major media outlets, manipulate Hollywood, and have managed to assume themselves in all major 'influential' postions in the U.S such as Congress, Senate, Whitehouse, etc...for starters.. Do you deny this?

I'm sorry if I strike you as an anti-semite my friend, but these issues are very real IMO and for the record..I don't hate Jewish people.. I hate the Zionists(extremists) who have no conscience and consider everyone else inferior.

Peace all,

Majorion

Because the cases of islamic radicalism and murder are numerous and unending but cases of murderous Jewish radicalism are very, very hard to find because they don't happen nearly as much.

If you start to have Jews acting like this then you'll see it in the MSM.


If what you say is true - That's not murderous radicalism. That's just smart business sense. There may be agenda behind people who are Jewish being in high positions, but then again it could be just like anyone else gaining high positons. For example - do you have the same stats on how many Catholics control major media outlets and who manipulate Hollywood, or are high up in government etc?? If there are Catholics in those positions does that mean that they have an agenda, or does it mean that they are smart Catholics who made something of themselves?

Maj,



I believe the answer to that is because there are over a billion Muslims and a whole heck of a lot less Jews. Therefore, even assuming correctly that both religions have a small amount of extremist clerics in their midst, by virtue of the simple math of proportions there will be more Islamic extremist leaders than Jewish ones.

Is it fair that people judge religions and further their personal agendas based on what radicals say? No, certainly not. Is it fair that a Muslim family got kicked off an AirTran plane recently because of "perceptions" formed due to actions and statements of radical clerics? No.

My complaints are against those who are too lazy, or perhaps too entrenched in their own hatred, to understand that statements from radical leaders do not represent the beliefs of their people as a whole. Frankly, that goes for both sides of this equation. In this thread in particular (since we're talking about it here) the pathetic attempt to paint the extremist views of 4 Rabbis as the official view of the Jewish people as a whole is repulsive and a sad statement about how people think in this day and age.

reply to post by Djarums

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This is reply to you too FlyersFan,,

You guys mentioned the alleged Islamic radicals constantly ..well..committing acts of terror around the world and thus being constantly covered on MSM..however..

There is an extremist state in this world called Israel whom constantly commit atrocities everyday.. yet isn't it interesting that such an "official" radical government performing similar(if not worse) acts of terror each and every day and Harass the Palestinians and lock them behind a wall confining them to less and less territory as the years pass.. are NEVER held accountable for their actions and almost NEVER get covered on MSM? .. Why is that?

Sorry for anything I said that could be considered offensive, and I hope that both of you find this debate to be as informative as I do.

Peace

I didn't mean to step in ... but I had some info ...


I disagree. Isreal isn't an 'extremist state'. It treats it's non-jewish citizens very well - especially compared to how the Islamic states around it treat their non-Islamic citizens. And the only reason it's going into Gaza is because Hamas won't stop the rocket and homicide bombing attacks.

The 'palestinians' have many homelands to go back to.
Arafat himself was Egyptian.
The Jews have only their one small homeland.

You are free to disagree. But that's the way I see it.

ON TOPIC -
Radical Islamics do not represent the whole of Islam.
These four rabbis do not represent the whole of Israel.

Actually there's a heck of a lot of coverage of what goes on in Israel, and there's been no shortage of coverage of the hardships that the Palestinian civillians in Gaza have been going through.

As far as government policies go, I certainly wouldn't say that I agree much with what the Israeli government does, but then I don't think that I can find a government out there that I can truly say does "the right thing" for their people.

When it comes to media coverage, each side will always have a complaint. The same way that during our recent election season each party constantly bored the public with cries of bias aimed at each of the major networks. Most media sources are not impartial. But again, that's on both sides. Show me some stories on Al Arabiya or Ramattan that portray positive sides of America. No media outlets that I know of are "fair" and that again is nothing new.

This particular thread though shows a far deeper problem than media though because attacks and intentional misdirection regarding religion typically ends up doing nothing but causing more hatred.

When you have a thread like this in which people are going out of their way to portray the views of 4 people as the views of an entire religion you end up with more people hating each other.

Think of it this way... someone reads this story and says "so that's how those Jews really feel huh? Bastards..." Why? Because of the attempts of certain members to show this as reflecting the belief of all Jews. That is a travesty. By that same reasoning I would be disgusted if someone printed the views of Al Zawahiri, or Rahman, or bin Laden for that matter and some reader said "wow, look at what those Muslims think of the rest of the world... kill the infidels huh? Bastards..."

It's sick. Those who post it and intentionally try to mislead people are doing wrong. Those who blindly follow them are tragic.

reply to post by FlyersFan

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I'm not referring to the way they treat "their" citizens. I was referring to the way they terrorize their neighbors.



First of all, Hamas' attacks almost kill no one when one looks at the stats. Second(and more importantly).. Why are Hamas acting like fools and firing at Israel even though they are inferior?..because their people(the Palestinians) are being killed, violated and harassed every single day of the year.



This is a completely different debate, so I won't start if you don't




I disagree with your opinion, but completely respect the manner in which you debate good buddy

Cheers!

Could the National Service for all Isreali citizens at 18 be responsible for reinforcing the belief that all Palestinians are 'untermenschen' therefore forging the mentality that all are to be classed as legitimate targets?

How long before we see Synagogues and Jewish business interests and those who hold dual-Israeli nationality in countries around the globe being targetted as a result of the situation?

There is no way that israel should be getting good press, again like in 2006. Only russia today in england seems to be given a fair view of it.

On this subject what do you really expect these rabbies to say.

reply to post by Djarums

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OK I don't know which channels in particular you're tuning in to but.. I have ALL the channels and I've listed them below, be it propaganda from either side or not.. I still get to see BOTH sides. And I've witnessed what Israel is doing to the Palestinians for many years and I'm disgusted with it like many others. The Mid-East channels show you stuff that you'd never see on American MSM, and I mean stuff that makes you're stomach turn upside down.

CNN, MSNBC, NBC News, ABC, C-Span, CBS, PBS, Al-Jazeera(English and Arabic), Al Arabiya and many other channels.




Actually Djarums, I find you to be 'partially' correct with this Statement. In the past Al- Arabiya was pretty much anti-America like you suggested, but in the last 2 years or so they have changed their attitude toward the U.S in particular, I don't know why, but I can assure they have.. they've even done interviews with George Bush and many other prominent U.S politicians. Though of course.. Naturally..they still remain on the same side of propaganda.




I completely agree with you man even though you may be referring to me as well? .. I really try my best to avoid stereotyping and judging others but sometimes I just say what's on my mind, sorry if it ever came out in the sickening manner you describe.

Peace

I normally don't like posting off-topic, but as a member for 6 years I'll take the liberty for a moment just to clarify that I absolutely was NOT talking about you Maj. I rather enjoy debating with you and hope you realize I was referring to others with transparent agendas. Definitely not you.

Exactly, there are are about 1.5Bil muslims and probably about 5% of them are extremists.

And if you look at jews, there are not many of them, but about 70% of them are extremist zionists.

Now just imagine if there were 1.5Bil jews..