The Heroism Conspiracy

*hello
*i am sorry but i seem to have missed something:i read some lines about albert pike and the 3ww being planned long before they took place so i ask myself if all what was said about albert pike and may be other unknown conspirators was true then what would the words "hero" and "heroism" finally mean....;sound like a paradox!!!
*i doubt there had been heroism over the past three centuries at all...

reply to post by spellbound


Sorry, guesse I cut myself off short this morning... All I was trying to do was figure your implied age, and was wondering if your father truly served in WWI.

Ok, I am a Army recruiter.

When people come and talk to me they are usually looking for a way to better their lives. I have not heard anyone yet say "Oh, i want to serve my country and be a hero." I think you are a little misguided about what bootcamp actually is about. The outstanding men and women in TRADOC have just 10 weeks to turn a civilian into a soldier.

As far as "following every order by the government." goes, I have never gotten a call from "The government" telling me to do something. Usually the orders i get come from officers. Myself, as well as the officers appointed over me are bound both by civil law and the UCMJ (which is a much harsher judicial system when compared to civil law.)

Basically, I am a average guy. I sit home and play my XBOX, I also attend classes at a local college. All paid for by the American taxpayer. I'm not a hero and never claimed to be. I'm just a guy that saw a way to make my life better and took advantage of it.

reply to post by SuperSecretSquirrel

I couldn't agree more. When I was in boot camp, what our drill instructors taught us as we stabbed at the dummies, was, "Killing Blow to the Neck and Head Region" ('Nam). Ya, sure.

I had a good friend became a machine gun operator in a 'copter: he shot anything that moved! He was honest, told the truth. He went AWOL first trip stateside, got caught, went to prison for a few (end result). You see, he was sick of the lies. After the fact. Lot's of other good stories, but not here.

And whoever said "off on a tangent, money wasn't even mentioned": It's called 'Reading and Comprehension.' The politicos who engage the wars have hidden reasons for what they do; oil and stolen oil profits wouldn't have nothing to do with it, at say, the corporate or banking levels? It's called a concurrent cash facade, and is part of most recent war 'efforts.'

My point being, do soldiers even think to see before they sign to kill?

War for liberty, for hope, and preservation of rights, yeah; not for what's been going on.

These aren't heroes, sorry; they're slaves, or warriors for the sake of blood n glory. Have you ever even seen a gung-ho soldier? Morality is not their issue, nor is it with most other soldiers. There is very little thought involved beyond follow orders. And I'm sick of CNN Salute to the Troops propaganda. This is a first hand opinion, but it's just my opinion.

I don't mean get down on them all: my friend woke up fast, and ran (coward?); he said he didn't want to kill anymore.

Thanks for the opportunity to talk to you.

Originally posted by SuperSecretSquirrel
I think you made some great points OP. I am a vet and you definitely do get brainwashed during boot camp. They tell you how to think, that killing is glorious. If you don't believe me, ask any vet what you have to say during the bayonet training. The drill sergeant asks you, " What makes the green grass grow?" The response is, "BLOOD! BLOOD MAKES THE GREEN GRASS GROW!" and then you stab a dummy with the bayonet fixed to your M-16. You are taught that America and The Government are indistinguishable.

I feel bad for our troops. They are pawns for our gov to play with. They are gov property and are owned. If you don't believe me, look it up. If a soldier injures himself/herself on their own they can be charged with destruction of government property.

They HAVE to do what they are told. They HAVE to conform.

They wars that have been waged in the past 40 years have not been to defend the American people, they have been to invade, liberate, and occupy OTHER countries. Of course we are told that it is for national security and such.

I support the troops because they cannot support themselves. They cannot choose what battles and missions that they are sent on. I feel bad for my colleagues that have their faces blown off by roadside bombs and had their helicopters shot down ALL IN FOREIGN COUNTRIES!

Thanks for coming forward with that.

I would like to make it clear that I am not attacking/blaming the troops, the government is doing the greatest deal of this injustice on the world (all governments that wage war), government creates soldiers, government desensitizes people, the government creates wars, which needs soldiers to fight in those wars.

The lame lies mostly on the shoulders of the government, people have a conscience choice, but some time that choice is so clouded with hate filled propaganda that they choose poorly.

We are all brainwashed at some point in our life time, but there is a golden moment that comes, a moment where the haze is lifted and we can choose another path. it is straight and narrow, not everyones first choice, but it is the right choice.

-Lahara

reply to post by MSP4206


At first your post came off as a little arrogant, highlighting the lack of thought demonstrated by some manipulated ones and all. But seeing you know Adolfo Nicolas is the black pope of the Jesuit order, and are probably also aware of the holy Jesuit infuence in a variety of Hidden Governmental chambers, you may be as aware as you say.

The existence or absence of heroism in war fits on the Enlightenment Spectrum. I posit the seemingly insane argument that the amount of time one spends looking into matters bigger than oneself correlates directly to how enlightened he/she is. I define enlightenment here as the comprehension and transformation of ambition that comes with meditation on matters quite mysterious and divorced from the life of yourself or anyone you relate to (its bigger than you).This discussion of whether it is heroic and protective of are freedoms to be at war oversees is more "down to earth", the players are visible, the influence of this event to an individual or family is very obvious. But once you get to discussion at the stage of "should we trust those who decided our collective course as a world in Monte Carlo Lodge meetings" or "what rank does the Pindar have to a 97th degree Masons" or "why did Cardinal Egan sit between Obama and McCain at the Al Smith dinner" fewer people are able to chime in with a view simply because they had other things to do, the infinite obsessions of ATS and numerous less mainstream forums are more of a past time than a way life. For you learning these things are a way of life.

reply to post by TheRandom1


I agree!

Heroism has changed in the dictionary and it's changed within our society. We have kids and adults saying their "heroes" are hockey players and other sports stars. What kind of rubbish is this!

Even our Military "heroes" are no where near the caliber of "hero" that we should be recognizing. In fact, I think all "military" heroes should be removed from our knowledge. I don't believe that anyone fighting in a war, any one of our NWO fake wars(which would include all wars), can be classed as a hero. If your fighting in a fake battle how can you be called a hero. There are no rpt no heroes in a war. The only heroes from a war are the ones made that way by the media...

Even Canadian heroes like Billy Bishop.... no longer in my opinion.... that war has been proven to be an NWO contrived incident. No heroes can come from that mess.... unless they were fighting the NWO and trying to bring it down from the inside and working for WE civilians fighting against the NWO.

True heroes will show themselves soon when the fight against the NWO becomes apparent. When the world wakes up to what is actually going on and realizes they must fight to survive, then I believe you will truly see the meaning of the word "Hero".

S&F

[edit on 2-1-2009 by AllTiedTogether]

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


Sorry I linked to the wrong post..

Originally posted by Msp4206
"my father actually having served in the military for his country which was ransacked and dismantled before being able to develop on its own."

So now we can see why you hate the military and the people that join it so much.. although you claim that it does not influence your opinion. that must mean that you are not human, for I, being put into your situation surely would have had that experience shape my life..

So you may call all soldiers Killers and brain washed sheep.. (paraphrasing) and that is your perogative.. But step back and do what you are telling every one else to do.. review and inspect your life and what has brought you to theese conclusions.. be honest with yourself.. What happened to your father has had a direct impact on your life.. and therefore it has "skewed" your perceptions of the military to some degree..

I truly am sorry for your fathers situation, but at least the man had "balls" enough to actually do something tangeable, instead of just sitting behind a puter typing his opinions on the web to anyone that would listen..

to be honest with you. your father sounds like he is a brave and decent human being...

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reply to post by AllTiedTogether

Originally posted by AllTiedTogether
"In fact, I think all "military" heroes should be removed from our knowledge"

So that would mean that you would like to expunge, SGT York,(who was a pacifist), George Washington, Chesty Puller, Audie Murphy, etal..?

in other words people that actually did stand up and do something extrodinary, not for personal gain or with any thought of glory, just that they were put into a situation that they did actually "prove" themselves to be a "cut above"..

so those few that I mentioned, in your opinion should be expunged from our history?

no prob, let us just rewrite history to your specifications.. and let us just pretend that we will be fine without any type of military or any type of "hero" except for maybe Ghandi..

Let us just forget everyone that has ever sacrificed, or has been willing to sacrifice his or her life, so that we can just sit here in our heated and airconditioned rooms and freely disrespect them and thier sacrifices to each other on the internet.. because they were just a bunch of brain washed killer idiots...

edit to add... after a good nights sleep and rereading this post it sounds a bit harsh, my sincere appologies, the point I was trying to make though is..

that you just can't pick and choose for everyone who or what they should consider a hero by expunging from history those that YOU decide are unworthy of that "honor"..

again my appologies for the tone of this post...It still seems harsh, (bad hair day???)

End of rant... thank you and have a nice day....

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reply to post by TheRandom1


This is actually the first post that you have made in this thread that I can agree with you on..

And that is not to say that you have not made some valid points.. It is to say that I agree with you on your response to super secret squirrel..

But I would like to ask you a question in all seriousness.. If I do not agree or subscribe to all or even some of your points of view, am I "brainwashed"??

Or would you allow, that quite possibly through my own reaserch, and life experiences I may have perhaps formed my own opinions, thoughts and feelings, about this topic?

And quite possibly they may differ from yours.. so even though they may differ, does that make me a "brainwashed sheeple"?

And I do appologize if this sounds condescending, or rude , I do not mean it to, I am truly interested in your reply to my question.. and I am not trying to bait, or "flame" you, I am just curious..


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Originally posted by MSP4206
I lived in Miami for most of my life and was lucky to be raised in such a diverse community. I was also lucky enough to be in a language arts Magnet school where I was able to learn German and it's history. (accurate world history) ( well to a certain extent). I was able to see lots of parts of the world at an early age.

I have lived in Paris (where I went to school) Germany, Japan, Korea and all four corners of the US. I spent time in over 75 countries across all seven continents. I have seen the poorest this world has to offer many times over, I have seen the very best of man and the very worst.

That's either neither here nor there because to be truthful I would take a bullet for a complete stranger, be they Nicaraguan, Peruvian, American, German, Iraqian, Isreali, Palestinian, and or Alien. (lol) It doesn't matter what label they put on a life to me it is just that and every single light vibration(life) has a right to survive and prosper.

I love people and I love cultures. The love for life and freedom is why I do what I do...well did..I'm now retired with 28 years in the military.

Those who wish to control and/or manipulate others lives are the ones doing wrong. Are you not by invading another's country trying to impose your own belief systems on a people?

I agree whole heartily, the world would be a boring place if everyone was the same or thought the same. All I want is for everyone to live their life to the fullest without fear, hunger, hate and biases that force them to live in a world where they can never have happiness or fulfillment.

I'm not blowing smoke up your @ss when I post for I post what I believe and have lived.

I completely agree with the OP and don't believe he made any mistakes in his post or reposts regarding your attacks on his/her character. You probably will never read my posts but just know that just because you didn't personally didn't commit any of the crimes doesn't mean you weren't an accomplice or turned blind eyes when need be. You can't bull # a bull #ter and you sirs, both of you or the thrice of you have a scent that even passes through the information superhighway and resonates in my nostril hair to alert me of lies.

Well the difference between you and me is I understand where you are coming from and I respect your views. I'm not defending everything America has done, and I'm not saying every American military person is some kind of angel helping the world. I know the realities of the world first hand and have personally experienced all sides of that reality. I know most of the people in every country are good people, but I also know there are a small persentage of really bad people in the world that have the ability to hurt a vast number of the good people.

I really am that enlightened as I state, and have seen and done more for humanity than you ever wished to have accomplished in your time serving the military industrial complex.

You are as enlightened as your experiences allow you to be, and the same for me. I'm not going to be so bold as to say, like you do, that you done more for the world than me, but if we compared notes you might be surprised. You also understand little as to what the US military does day in and out to write that statement above.

I have spent much of my life helping a good part of the world, and I’m not saying that I set them free or some abstract ideal. I’m saying I helped them to live as in delivering 10,000 of tons of food and supplies to hungry people, digging people out of rubble from earth quakes, working endless hours in field hospitals caring for people all over the world. (none hurt by us BTW). Personally working in and providing my own money for orphanages around the world, protecting people who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time even when it is very dangerous to me. It is one thing my friend to say you are willing to take a bullet for others, and another to have bullets actually wiz past your head helping people to live and doing it over and over again.

When I help people I’m not doing it to set them free, or to put my ideals on them because I think mine are better. I do it because they are people damn it, and there is no one else to help them. Now times this by 28 years and you have a small understanding to what I’m about.

Does this make me right…I don’t know, for I only know what I know…

You tell the poster, to think a little, well I say to thee, Think a lot because it is evident that not much thinking is occuring on your side of the creek. Only through individual awareness can we conquer this evil, so to all my fellow ATSer's keep posting the truth in as many forms as you can.

Truth is a very hard thing to find, and just when you think you did, you have learned just enough to know you know nothing yet.

And just cause this is my first "actual" post, that's just cause I never felt I needed to let myself be known. But now you have an easy way to contact me or look me up so we can continue to grow our efforts.

I look foward to more posts and insight from you this coming year.

Yes I am a musician amongst other things but that should deter the validity of my posts.

I love to play guitar. Music and math are the only two truths in the universe

Peace is a very valuable thing to me. It means I can be home with my two young boys sit and smoke a great cigar, drink a fine 18 year scotch and truly know I'm blessed, for once you walk in a sea of poverty and misery everything else just doesn't seem so bad as you thought it was.

BTW I read your post...


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reply to post by Xtrozero


You sir have alot more patience and understanding than I... And I thank you for this small lesson in humility, I do believe it is what I needed right now...

Originally posted by Common Good
The Military personel consists of brothers and sisters, moms and dads, people who put their life in jeopardy to serve something greater than themselves!

They are only serving themselves. That is the only thing people can do, even when "helping someone else" or whatever, they only do it because they get some pleasure out of it. All decisions and actions are based on how much pleasure an individual will get. There is NO honor in someone who chooses to do ANYTHING that serves their pleasure-seeking ego. There are no heroes.

Originally posted by MSP4206

I fight for the injustices that they face now because of our military actions of the past. I really do see your points and stances as soldiers but you need to understand that you are still a pawn in a much bigger game.

I know the big game all too well, but one man can only do what one man can do. I'm American, so it is a curse and a privilege all in one, and I’m not sure what is worst, being spit at or shot at.

But do not, and I mean ever, underestimate the good of helping just one person no matter how big the game is.



[edit on 3-1-2009 by Xtrozero]

Originally posted by SideWynder

You sir have alot more patience and understanding than I... And I thank you for this small lesson in humility, I do believe it is what I needed right now...

I remember this one time during Somalia that I spent around 26 hours flying supplies to refugee camps non-stop that were dying of hunger. We got back to Egypt where we were staying in a hotel and my crew was finally able to sit down and have a beer. Well in the bar were four very pretty women from Somalia that once they found out we were American military they got upset and started to curse us with one finally throwing her drink on me as they stormed out of the place. All I could do was just continue to drink my beer in my numb state of sleeplessness.

I got all the patience in the world my friend.


[edit on 3-1-2009 by Xtrozero]

Originally posted by ghaleon12

They are only serving themselves. That is the only thing people can do, even when "helping someone else" or whatever, they only do it because they get some pleasure out of it. All decisions and actions are based on how much pleasure an individual will get. There is NO honor in someone who chooses to do ANYTHING that serves their pleasure-seeking ego. There are no heroes.

I agree, but I think despair is a better word than pleasure. When you help truly hopeless people you are only avoiding for a short time your despair for the millions you cannot help.

Originally posted by SideWynder
reply to post by TheRandom1

 

But I would like to ask you a question in all seriousness.. If I do not agree or subscribe to all or even some of your points of view, am I "brainwashed"??

Or would you allow, that quite possibly through my own reaserch, and life experiences I may have perhaps formed my own opinions, thoughts and feelings, about this topic?

And quite possibly they may differ from yours.. so even though they may differ, does that make me a "brainwashed sheeple"?

And I do appologize if this sounds condescending, or rude , I do not mean it to, I am truly interested in your reply to my question.. and I am not trying to bait, or "flame" you, I am just curious..


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Hmm... I think we all have some sorta brainwashing that goes on, for the longest time, as a child, I was brainwashed into believeing whatever it is I was told. I've finnally woken up to many things, not everything, but many, the main one is how to notice brainwashing techniques, i see politicians, pastors, media, even sales people using this technique, in fact the technique I'm talking about is what the Bible decribes as "Sorcery" and "Witchcraft".

There are somethings you will notice in the remander of your life that you will "wake up" to many things, your mind and opinion will change, you may be brainwashed, you may not, but if youare being told to unquestioningly submit to some authority, or many other things, then you very well may be brainwashed, to tell you the truth, and I know this sounds silly, but it's something I've noticed about "sheeple", is that if you are a major sports fan, (dedicating a certain room to your favorite sport, talking about it to your friends constantly, ect.), then you are INCREDIBLY susceptible to brainwashing.

-Lahara

reply to post by TheRandom1


I thank you for your response, And I understand your points on "brainwashing" and I must say that I agree with you on them... I also have noticed the same thing about some sports fans... LOL..

As far as blindly following "authority" and believing what the government, etal, tells me, nope, can't say as I just automatically buy it...

If I did I would (for instance) not be a member of this site... So I do try to keep an open mind, But that does not mean that I will automatically agree with every alternate theory or opinions, thoughts , ideas, etc.. that are posted on this site,

If I subscribed to either totally believing the "government" etal, or all "conspiracies" Then I truly believe that I woud be a "sheeple"..

And unfortunately the main topic of this post is really not a subject that can be "proved" it is more of a topic that is related to perceptions rather than cold hard facts that can be either proven or disproven unequivicably..

With that being said, I still think this is a worthwhile thread and has brought some good points to light.. so I do thank you for starting it and reading my comments..

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reply to post by SideWynder


Yes agree, there is nothing that can be proven without a doubt, it is mosty just perspective.

Thanks you for a thoughful and civil discusion and your viewpoints.

-Lahara

reply to post by ghaleon12

They are only serving themselves. That is the only thing people can do, even when "helping someone else" or whatever, they only do it because they get some pleasure out of it. All decisions and actions are based on how much pleasure an individual will get. There is NO honor in someone who chooses to do ANYTHING that serves their pleasure-seeking ego. There are no heroes.

ghaleon12,

Your post comes across as a snot nosed little s--t. You post comes across precisely as you quote here... no honor, only entitlement beliefs and nonsense. What you say doesnt even make good nonsense to those who can think outside of a television education.

I know lot of poeple who work for a living and thier lives are anything but instant gratification. I dont know what kind of spoon you were raised with in your mouth to where you can post such astonishing ignorance but like so many I wonder if you were brought up in public education schooling and in front of a television. Public education=television education=entitlement beliefs.

All decisions and actioins are "not" based on instant gratification or for pleasure beliefs. Alot of beleifs and actions are based on responsibilities not pleasure. Any grown up adult knows that responsibilities are anything but pleasure.

I know lots of people in the military and thier duties in addition to family responsibilities are subject to being sent across the world overnight....and many have been. It has nothing to do with being a hero. It has to do with being responsible. It is anything but pleasure to be shipped overnight and far from home and family.

I know men and women who are wearing second hand clothes and many of thier clothes are going threadbare so that thier children can have better.
It is not pleasurable for them.
I know one family who in addition to thier own are raising a child who is not thiers. They do this out of a sense of responsibility and duty ..not pleasure.

I cannot imagine where you got such nonsense. Do try to think before you post.

Orangetom