I wonder why all of you feel the need to be right. Is for any reason beyond feeding the ego?

My husband is in the army, i do not take offense to what was said at all and i do agree with you in some aspects.

Most people join the military to get started in life. They do not join to become heros. Some stay in because of the retirement and the ability to start as second career after retirement.

Hero is a concept used by the body politic to justify thier next war or political needs. It has always been that way. Anyone in uniform who is capable of thinking for themselves knows that the so called heros are mostly dead or maimed for life. They find little glory in it. Any of the real medal winners did not set out to do so....to win medals or become so called heros. They were just caught up in circumstances for which their consciences would allow them do nothing else.

THe reason you hear so much about it nowdays by the media and body poliitic is because the media has clearly become nothing but an extension to the will of the body politic...shilling for the same body politic. Hero concepts are needed to prepare the more gullible public for the next coming war.

Thanks,
Orangetom

[edit on 2-1-2009 by orangetom1999]

Originally posted by capgrup

I suggest you go to a Military Cemetary and look at the rows of headstones. You might not think or feel or believe that the soldiers fighting today are fighting for you, but I guarantee you that those from the beginning of this country to Korea, and yes even Veitnam, and yes even now died HEROICALLY for you.

ahh ok so soldiers fighting in vietnam was for the american people? so people fighting in iraq is for the american people? so if they dont go to Iraq and fight this will have dire consequences for the american people? LOL get a CLUE

Yeah, 'Nam & Iraq are political expediency; nothing more.

Oh, shall I mention the tens of millions of missing oil money, that has been hush-hushed by the media, after just a few light mentions? Newsweek & Time both reported it. Where did that go, hmmm?

And presence in the area is the concurrent other reason. Who cares what they have to tell the soldiers and the people? They do what they're told, as I posted earlier.

It's nice to have national pride, but there is no national pride in killing for political huff-huffs between the stage players. The machinations behind such actions need to be examined before you agree to go killing for your country. Few even think about it.

The draft is one thing; volunteering for action n excitement is another (doesn't happen? I assure you it's a fact!).

And this is a wicked world, so we understand why, for example, the usa and certain other countries think they should have it all, and others less. Please don't touch my stuff; and give me your milk money.

War pride; lies.

Self-defense, yeah. Ever see the americans in their big cars on the streets? Mindless hypocrites, at the World level.

Democracy? It's nice to have blinders for the people; they go in the direction you want them to. Get that carrot! Oh, and kill anything in Our way; we sanction it!

Yeah, they're Heroes alright. Guts n Glory seekers, in most cases; not to mention cash payout!

C'mon; wake up. Think a tiny bit.

[edit on 2-1-2009 by SS,Naga]

Heroism (named after the Greek figure "Hero") is about sacrifice for what is right. Sometimes that is for the "greater good" whereby a soldier jumps on a grenade to protect his buddies (sacrifice 1 to save 4 or more). And sometimes it is about going "above the call of duty" to put your life on the line to save another human being (in and out of war operations). But it can also be a conscious sacrifice whereby one disobeys an immoral order and consequently pays the "ultimate price." An example of nazi heroism is appropos here: There was a german soldier in Norway who was part of a firing squad to kill innocent civilians (maybe they were being killed as a reprisal against the "resistance" I cant recall). And there was a soldier who couldnt kill innocents like that and he could have shot and missed but he wanted to make a point - to not shoot an innocent civilian and thus he laid down his rifle...and then knowing that he could be shot for such an obvious disobedience of an order (to kill) he took his place with the civilians and was shot down by the members of the firing squad with the civilians. Is this not an Act of Heroism? Until the SHTF and troops start killing innocent civilians because they are ordered to do so, let's give the troops the benefit of the doubt. Most of the grunts are brainwashed but there are some decent men at the higher levels of the military. Most are highly educated, intelligent and moral. Men like Gen. David Petraeus and Gen. William Caldwell (whom he replaced...Heck, Bill Caldwell is married to a Methodist minister and they have young kids for crying out loud. Men like that, even tho they are good, obedient soldiers, will ultimately do what is best for the Country. God Bless the USA!

I would also like to voice my disgust at members of the UK who do not wear poppies on and around Remembrance Day (which is the 11th of November in the UK and we have a moment of silence at 11am, I am not sure if the US has anything similar?).
I am normally one of the first to wear, and last to take off, my poppy and I wear it with pride. I wear it to show my appreciation to those that have already put their lives on the line and have perished, to those that stayed at home to keep the country afloat (the Women of WWII) and to those that are currently serving.

It disgusts me how, year on year, I see fewer and fewer poppies on public display. The elderly seem to always be brandishing a poppy without fail but it seems to be the ignorant youth (of all colours) of today who fail to wear one.

Last year (Nov 08) I was questioned by a person of 21 years of age "What is that paper flower pinned to your chest?"

Need I say more?

[edit on 2-1-2009 by george_gaz]

Mindsmog;

If the soldier dies for his or her friend in the foxhole, or because he/she believes it is neccesary to prevent a future attack is what matters. They are the only person allowed to question why they chose to do so. Not me, not you, not anyone.

SS,Naga;

I really do not believe anyone even mentioned money in this entire thread. Talk about going off on a tangent.

Originally posted by SideWynder


I must agree with your post, and seeing as how you have mentioned what I posted earlier about how the military usualy sees the term "hero" I am assuming that you have actually read this whole thread..

With that being said I was wondering if you might have noticed that the OP. and most of the posters that are agreeing with the OP. do not seem interested in actually discussing the Original topic?

Most just seem to want to post thier perceptions of the military, and the people who for whatever reason join up..

Another saying that is often used in the military is "The only heros are dead ones!" So most military personell are not so "gung-ho" to become a "Hero"

Ya, I do not want to be a hero for it most likely means I'm dead and half my buddies are dead too.

Heroic acts are only seen as that well after the fact. The actual act was just a person doing the best job they can under extreme situations.

I just hate arm chair quarterbacks who only know what they see on the news or read in bias blogs. Kind of funny the 500k plus that have been to Iraq over the years have a totally different perspective on it all...I wonder who is closer to the truth, those who sit in their house, or those who are/were actually there....


Think about it...

[edit on 2-1-2009 by Xtrozero]

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS

Throughout my life's journey, I have encountered many types of hate. Racial, sexual, religious, but to this day I have not seen anything as evil as the type of unbiased hate that our military does in the name of freedom and protecting ours.

The military does not hate anyone...I miss you point. We have no choice to do as those voted into office tell us to do. Our only choice is jail if we don't.

When we are over there we do our job as professional as we can under extreme situations. For every bad deed you can dream up there are 10,000s of good deeds that go unnoticed daily.

Yes, fighting is hell, but the war was over after the first few weeks, and these past long years have been nothing more than preventing secular fighting and political based groups that want to keep the chaos going so that if/when we leave they can take over.

If we were not there we would see another Darfur happen and a Saddam twin take office. To argue if we should have been there in the first place is not a luxury of ours for we are just trying to fix the mess our government created.

I spent well over two years of my life over there and what you think you know is far from the actual truth.

[edit on 2-1-2009 by Xtrozero]

The last anonymous post on Page 4 was written by me, and it was mostly directed towards Xtrozero as well as Rasputin 13. (I can't believe there are so many like you) (well actually I can, its sad I know) I could spend the rest of my life disproving all your theories and concepts. Let me just state a couple of facts about me before you start making assumptions. I am 25 and was born in the USA. I lived in Miami for most of my life and was lucky to be raised in such a diverse community. I was also lucky enough to be in a language arts Magnet school where I was able to learn German and it's history. (accurate world history) ( well to a certain extent)
I was able to see lots of parts of the world at an early age. I also am fluent in Spanish as my parents are both of Nicaraguan heritage, with my father actually having served in the military for his country which was ransacked and dismantled before being able to develop on its own. Instead this government planted a corrupt family at the top of the Government food chain to halt any progress that my people would have been able to achieve on their own. That's either neither here nor there because to be truthful I would take a bullet for a complete stranger, be they Nicaraguan, Peruvian, American, German, Iraqian, Isreali, Palestinian, and or Alien. (lol) It doesn't matter what label they put on a life to me it is just that and every single light vibration(life) has a right to survive and prosper. Those who wish to control and/or manipulate others lives are the ones doing wrong. Are you not by invading another's country trying to impose your own belief systems on a people? I completely agree with the OP and don't believe he made any mistakes in his post or reposts regarding your attacks on his/her character. You probably will never read my posts but just know that just because you didn't personally didn't commit any of the crimes doesn't mean you weren't an accomplice or turned blind eyes when need be. You can't bull # a bull #ter and you sirs, both of you or the thrice of you have a scent that even passes through the information superhighway and resonates in my nostril hair to alert me of lies. I really am that enlightened as I state, and have seen and done more for humanity than you ever wished to have accomplished in your time serving the military industrial complex. You tell the poster, to think a little, well I say to thee, Think a lot because it is evident that not much thinking is occuring on your side of the creek. Only through individual awareness can we conquer this evil, so to all my fellow ATSer's keep posting the truth in as many forms as you can. We all know that repition is the best way to get people to remember. We cannot allow them to forget the real reasons we are in these current wars and what the impending future holds if we do not act now. 4 years before human slavery is the norm, let's not allow that to happen. I will continue my good will work through my avenues and I encourage all of you to do so as well. You all have my undying support and faith that we will suceed. It all starts and ends with Adolfo Nicolas, that's just "sumthing" I've recently found of interest. Of course there are many more things to cover and talk about but let's unite and brainstorm to come out with the best ideas like we usually get to here on ATS. And just cause this is my first "actual" post, that's just cause I never felt I needed to let myself be known. But now you have an easy way to contact me or look me up so we can continue to grow our efforts. MSP by the way is an acronym for my name which is Muerte Sin Palabras. Yes I am a musician amongst other things but that should deter the validity of my posts. I have made many anonymous posts but due to my profession, I chose not to reveal myself until I felt the time was right. I guess it just took the right Posting to get me out of the shadows. One Love to anyone and everyone because in the end we are all in this together.Godspeed

I think you made some great points OP. I am a vet and you definitely do get brainwashed during boot camp. They tell you how to think, that killing is glorious. If you don't believe me, ask any vet what you have to say during the bayonet training. The drill sergeant asks you, " What makes the green grass grow?" The response is, "BLOOD! BLOOD MAKES THE GREEN GRASS GROW!" and then you stab a dummy with the bayonet fixed to your M-16. You are taught that America and The Government are indistinguishable.

I feel bad for our troops. They are pawns for our gov to play with. They are gov property and are owned. If you don't believe me, look it up. If a soldier injures himself/herself on their own they can be charged with destruction of government property.

They HAVE to do what they are told. They HAVE to conform.

They wars that have been waged in the past 40 years have not been to defend the American people, they have been to invade, liberate, and occupy OTHER countries. Of course we are told that it is for national security and such.

I support the troops because they cannot support themselves. They cannot choose what battles and missions that they are sent on. I feel bad for my colleagues that have their faces blown off by roadside bombs and had their helicopters shot down ALL IN FOREIGN COUNTRIES!