6 Million people died in the Holocaust, and somebody did something.

You want another revolution? What so that the same mistakes can be made over and over again? Those 'extra constitutional measures' were introduced by members in your employ, if they are not following your instructions or in fact if you are failing to give them your instructions then is it is your failing as much as theirs. All those measures can be undone by proper representation.

I presume of course that you are a tax payer...as a tax payer it is not sufficient to complain about the fact that you are taxed, you should be ensuring that that money is spent in accordance with your needs. The only way to ensure that that money is being used in that way is to get off your arse and check. I'm in the UK, so it is a slightly different fish kettle here (our revolutions have so far all failed, there is still hope though), but in the US taxation was agreed upon the basis of 'No taxation without representation'. Think about that. Are you being represented? Do you even know who your representative is? The means for change are already in place, that others know how to use it better than you do is the problem. Only vigilance and making sure that you are a right-royal-pain in your representatives arse will get wheels moving, slowly, but moving all the same. Rome as they say, was not built in a day.

You're nitpicking.
Murder is murder, simple as that. Religion and nationalism have conspired to kill more people than any other thing in human history. It doesn't matter where the victims come from, or what beliefs they hold.
Religious, cultural and nationalist ego masturbation is the human race's worst attribute.!!! And we can't seem to rise above those constraints.
Have you ever thought that the universe contains many "intelligent" species, and some of them may select themselves out of evolution by their
idiotic behavior?
That seems to be us, as far as I see it.

Oh ye of little faith!!!!!

I agree of course, to the possibility, but as long as there are those that see and act, we will survive, we will endure. I have no intention of giving up without a fight. The main force that we have to combat is complacency, the generation old belief that someone, anyone, will save us (or in the case of the genocide that we witness daily them). This complacency, this waiting for our saviour, is fostered by those in charge, we are consistently brain washed to believe this, from a messiah, to Superman, to supreme or alien beings that will intervene should the going get too tough. No one will help us unless we help ourselves. Knowledge has power only if we wield it.

reply to post by American Infidel

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But my Fear of Hell is the only thing stopping me from doing bad things...
Sure there is my conscience, but even that is bolstered by a fear of Everlasting Agony in the pits of torment, etc.

I don't care much for heaven, it's existence is not something I worry about. But I'm just no gonna take any chances about there being a hell - and I'm gonna bet on the safe side and not overrule my conscience just in case(Eternal Agony and Torture - think about that).

So yeah, this is brainwashing at its best - but at least I'm scared of ever hurting anyone for fear of eternal torment for as long as I can remember.

I'm a veteran, and this fear of God and Hell I have been imbued with has saved countless lives during the course of my military career. It has even forced me to go out of my way to help people (for fear of eternal damnation if I didn't help) - people that the rest of unit would pass by and ignore their pleas and destitute conditions...

*this often left me without food as I figured if I didn't give my rations to the children and go hungry for a day or two, I would suffer an eternity of Hunger pains in the depths of hell.

I never even read the whole Bible yet and I don't go to church. Nor do I say my prayers.

reply to post by Maxmars

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If you were to ask a random person on the street (here in the UK atleast) about WWII, the first thing that they will think of will be the jews. Myself included. I'm 19, and ever since I was a child it has been banged into my head about the jews and how millions of them died and whatnot. Sure it's a very horrible thing, but it wasn't just the jews that suffered. Many people did.

Also, I'd also like to say that I find it absolutely disgusting that "holocaust revisionism" is automatically seen as "Holocaust denial", and, it's now a crime you can go to prison for! If that isn't censorship I don't know what is. I've read a few things I won't go into (This isn't really the forum for that), and it seems to me there have been some very, very grave exxagerations.

Great post OP and lots of interesting information contained within. There are a few posts here which are trying to derail the topic it seems but I applaud the ATS community for keeping it on track!

If ignorance is truly bliss then you guys must be the happiest s.o.b.'s on planet earth. hitler did single out jews, that is what the "final solution" was all about. Isriael wasn't GIVEN a homeland the took back what was rightfully theirs since ancient times. If anything & any people have been invented it's the palestineans (criminals from other arab states that were cast out of their own countries). You can use made up stories from made up sources all you want & all that does is bring into the light of day your hatred of the Hebrew people and their faith, be honest ,you're really frightened of them- their history,their future,their most famous son and what all of that means for your future. As for me & mine, we belong to that most famous son!

reply to post by ConservativeJack

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Seems like you are happy that you won the death toll competition paid by your ancestors... this is really sick.. i am sure they are now looking down at you with disgust... Seems like you are happy the jews suffered the most and proud of it?? you should really seek help..

[edit on 2-1-2009 by thefreepatriot]

[edit on 2-1-2009 by thefreepatriot]

you're out of line and taking my post out of context.

get a life, troll.

Holocaust!I dont mean to undrmine it but by jove there are more pressing issues than gettin vindictive justice on people prbly dyng of old age by now.Like Africa,hunger in africa,for decades the U.N,donor groups,the West,East in recent years,have all failed t realize that th solution is not food aide but education and liberation from neo-colonialism.Few africn leaders have recognised this.

reply to post by asmeone2

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Bunch of nonsense actually and you sure did leave out a lot of facts, some about the dead of Nazism, some about the actions of nations that could have saved Jews but refused, and last but not least your overall premise that US coddles Israel. When was the last time the US sent troops into Israel or one of it's neighbors for Israels sake? How many conflicts and wars has Israel been in since 1947? Just a bunch of HOOOOEY to try to state a case that is ridiculous at best!!!

Your title alone is goofy even according to your own words there were more than 6 million, I noticed Russian Jews weren't in your numbers, nor French Jews, nor German Jews, nor SHALL I GO ON? I won't even the millions of Russians killed by Germans during WW2.

If anyone says that NO ONE helped Jews during WW2 I would disagree vehemently but would say that Nations didn't help when they could, nations like the U.S.. My Great Grandfather was put in the camps for forging papers for Jews to get them out of France during WW2 as was my grandmother, so I know PEOPLE helped the Jews but Nations did nothing even when begged to help...

I would agree that lots like to forget the WHOLE of the Nazi hit list or they have never been told about them all. Blacks were on the list too, look at Jessee Owens and the 36 Olympics in Berlin Hitler said Owens was an Animal and it was unfair that his Men had to go up against an animal. Evolutionary Thinking a tits best ehhh? The Gypsies wee also targeted as were the retarded, handicapped, Jews, communists and others...

One should remember that the Arab Muslim Nations sided with Hitler and Mussolini during WW2 and they still t this day have that same hit list... Kill all Jews, Christians, Pagans (other religions not Jew or Christians as the Muslims see it) is still there motto and song and slogan and flag and religion...

The world put down Nazism as was right to do, why then do we allow it to continue under the name Islam today? We still have the duty as a world to rid ourselves of rabid dogs that seek genocide and death and Islam fits the bill but so many call it a religion and try to respect it. I don't recall respect for Nazism, did we not carpet bomb Germany? Why do we not carpet bomb Islamic States that are clearly terror supporting and dangerous to the rest of the civilized world?

reply to post by theindependentjournal

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Actually the last link that I provided did go into detail about nations that helped out the Jews, I just didn't have enough space left to post.

And, you are missing the point, the thread is not to point out those who could have helped but didn't, but those who actually did.

german students: The white rose resistance

en.wikipedia.org...

www.raoulwallenberg.net.../holocaust/articles/sophie-scholl-white-rose.2786.htm

well - I see several people are debating and trying to bring the past back to life...
* check out those Gas Chambers at the death camps ... next the base HQ..? in addition if the poison gas is real, I think the building would be in something that loos like a decompression chamber - I would not believe Nazi's would gas people in such a structure as the structures I have seen as claimed as gas chambers.
* swimming pool - tennis courts... ? yes, hitler worked people to death and hit murdered people.. but what we see is the results of people that have not eaten -- when a government crumbles in war... food doesnt seem to go where it needs to hence massive starvation and thats exactly what we saw... on top of long term malnutrician. --
also, it was rumored that WWII purified the Jewish Race ... Some how.. not sure where I read that.. it was about Norway and everyone wore the star of david including the king.
* Aushvitz you know I have heard that the water table is like a foot or so down, and we have reports of deep trenches with burning bodies ... and the camp records do not reflect any addition fuel other than normal use. it would require quite a bit of natural gas or coal etc... to burn a human body. so, this whole Holocaust thing kind of stinks

Guys, this is not a thread to debate whether the holocaust actually happened or not. Please discuss that in appropriate threads. THank you.

reply to post by asmeone2

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I do appreciate the fact that you have tried to bring peace here. Your whole topic seems to me to be about the "good" that is capable of people. I do believe that more of us are "good" then "evil". Many are indifferent.

"Governments" ignored The Holocaust. Many, many "people" did not.

According to International Red Cross -2.2 million Jews die in concentration camps. The "magic number" 6 million come up even before second world war.
Just got a simple question of - how many people have to die to be consider a holocaust? or does word " holocaust" apply only to jews?