6 Million people died in the Holocaust, and somebody did something.

That is mental.... Just goes to show how bad things realy can get. We on this forum should really be thankful of what we have and should quit bickering over lame topics and remember what others have gone through.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout

---

Thank you most kindly. That was well presented and I agree. It's like a train wreck, with many contributing but separate elements and factors.

You do know what Holocaust is right ... Look it up... its a Sacrafice ... a ritual sacrafice ... and you think it means what...? exactly ...
these people do not choose words by accident.

If anyone ever saw Schindlers List you'll know that even among the Nazi industrials human beings with human hearts still existed and tried to help the Jews.

Schindler saved around 1200 people from the deathcamps by employing them in his factories.

The reason for this thread and the entire subject I guess is because there is a rampant mindset that people should be ok with the Palestinians getting erradicated and noone should help them, because uninformed and ignorant people think that the Jewish People in WW2 suffered the same fate.

For some reason they also think its ok that the Palestinians suffer that fate as retribution for what happend to the Jewish people 60+ years ago. While If I'm not mistaken, it was the Nazi's that did that to the Jews and not the Palestinians.

reply to post by thematrix

---

Actually I am more concerned about the way that some people seem to think that we should not address Israel's HR violations, because the Jewish people were done wrong in the past.

It is simply not true that no one tried to stop the Holocaust, I am very tired of hearing that.

It could be argued that Hitler's Holocaust is still continuing today what with the Palestinians paying the price now and dying as we speak.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout

---

You have made some good points there but when I said "they did not know," I meant more on a individual citizen basis.

There is a world of difference between the government officials knowing about what is going on in a country, and literally the entire world, knowing.

We have virtually a blow-by-blow account of what is happening in Gaza but that is ONLY because of the technology we have.

If we were at 1940 levels of technology I think it would be another 10 years or so before we were hearing the stories that are posted in Breaking News.

If more people had known what was actually going on, perhaps things would have turned out differently.

How do you mean?

Genocides happen, now and again. Sad truth. We don't have to link them all back to Hitler--his was only unique, as stated already, because it was so industrialized.

reply to post by Maxmars and SleeplessinUS

---

Another thing that offends me about the Holocaust is the impression I get from many people that it was a worse genocide because the victims were largely Jewish.

I have to concure with you two, it was bad because people died, period, not because of the demographic of the people.

Why is it that the continued push of a single persecution of race seems to get all the limelight ?

It happened 60+ years ago and they still can't let it go, at the detriment of current and ongoing genocides ? Seems stupid that people should continuously bring up non-current attrocities when there are more important crimes happening as we speak.

To anyone who wants to open the wounds of what happened to the Jews back in WW2 grab a brain and look to what is happening NOW!!! for the sake of us all.

Raul Wallenberg, a Swedish Diplomat who also did more than just put his life on the line, also fought long and hard to save the Jews and others during the Holocaust. He was a victim of the War, yes, but not of the Nazi's. And what the Nazi's did can in no way, shape, manner, or form, be overlooked in the number of atrocities that were committed during the Second World War. Japan committed many major atrocities during WWII as well. Not the least among them were what Unit 731 did in Manchuria. Even the Allies committed atrocities in that conflict. The U.S. and Britain were not guilty so much as the other nations, but still what the U.S. did with Japanese-Americans can be considered an atrocity of sorts. But the Allied nation that was more guilty than other Allied nations of committing atrocities than the others put together was the old Soviet Union. They took over the Baltic States and also agreed to partitian Poland in a secret protocol in the German-Soviet Union Non-Aggression Treaty signed on August 23rd, 1939. They also attacked Finland without provocation on December 1, 1939. They also killed 10,000 Polish Officers in 1940 that they had captured in 1939. They also forced Finland, Romania and Czechoslovakia to hand over territory to them. Romania in 1940, and Czechoslovakia after the War was over. They executed without proof those who they thought had collaborated with the Axis Powers from 1941-1945. While admittedly some of them did, they still needlessly executed hundreds of thousands of others who didn't, and used countless minorities within the Soviet Unions old borders for slave labor. They did the same in the Eastern European Countries that they took over following the Second World War. That still does not excuse the atrocities the the US committed, like I mentioned earlier in the post with the Japanese-Americans whio we herded into concentration Camps of our own, or of the others like the Dresdan Firebombing, either. An atrocity is an atrocity, no matter who commits it.

As a folloup to my last post to this thread, I also think that there are atrocities being committed nowadays in the world as well. The Palestinians and the Kurds are two recent examples of what the Turks and Israel are doing now. While I do support Israels right to exist, I also support the Palestinians right to exist as a State, too.
I am also aware of what Iraq did against the Kurds in the 1980's and later. I am also aware of what atrocities were being perpetrated in the former Yugoslavia as well. There are even more examples that
I, or others, can mention as well that are being carried out in other arts of the world as well.
I don't see it happening any time soon, but I dream of the day when all of humanity wil treat those who are different with the same courtesy, respect, and digniuty that we not only each ask for, but that we all deserve, as well.

I watched a documentary a while back about Sobibor. Although Auschwitz is more well known, Sobibor was much worse. At Sobibor the had pits were they stacked bodies and separated the layers of bodies with railroad steel. The fires in the pits burned so hot the rails melted into hunks of steel. There is a big difference with the Holocaust and what is going on now. What I still can't understand is how Hitler was able to get so many of his people to go along with this, how many heartless people did he have?

The holocaust was awful, it was terrible in fact i cannot find words to express how disgusting such an event was.

However i'm tired of it being used as political rhetoric. If we are goign to talk about things in the past then i want to bring up how the English treated my Irish relatives back in the 1600's. Hell i mean they raped, murdered and did many other things!

So why don't you hear me complaining about these things? Well they're in the past so it's not important to me. We have laws in place to protect us from such things, we have most people hating the actions of such people and so i just don't care.

I refuse to hold the past as a sword above the head of current and future generations.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

---

This is the attitude we all should have.

reply to post by asmeone2

---

I think it has more to do with religion, Americans are deeply involved in their belief of Christ, they believe Christ will return after a sets of events occure hence Jews taking controle of old Israel. I'm guessing that the only reason America is not stoping the expansion of Israeli settlements into Palestinian terratories is because they want the whole land, unless they have the whole land Christ won't return. Correct me if I'm wrong, makes sense if you have a brain.

Sorry off topic but ats is great..maybe i am learning a hardcore american democracy here, which unfortunatly does not exist anymore. I mean there is very heated subject on gazza and israel and both parties can discuss extremely about the issues, without subjective attacks. I myself sometimes can not control myself and do harm my opponent, but i learn here how to debate. Here is most democratic place (although i dont believe in democracy). Byeee and have a nice debate, which feels one as human.

[edit on 31-12-2008 by commodore64]

I think so too, although I'm trying to be apolitical in this thread, I am appaled by this mindset. It's disgusting that so many people are concerned so much with the hereafter that they are ignoring the suffering of people in this life.

I have thought my whole life this is the way it was. I know it was awful but I want to learn about what happened. I didn't realize it's being used as a political lever. I guess I am naive.