Europe may lose a quarter of its gas supply

Ukraine stopped the work of compressor stations working in the direction of the Balkans

itar-tass.com...

No matter what though guys,the pipes do belong to Russia.Ukranians can't do them anything they like...!

Anyway,before reading this i was really stunned since the only thing that i heard was that our gas is being cutted.I was stunned because i thought that Russia was responsible.If they're not they should take control of the pipes,simple as that.Noone should be able to fool around freely with them.

The majority of the pipeline belongs to Gazprom, however I think a small portion may belong to Ukraine's Naftogaz. Naftogaz may also be the owner and operator of certain pumping/pressure stations and other crucial infrastructure along the way. Technically Ukraine has the power to shut down the pipeline, although that will be a severe violation of the contract. However it looks like they are abou to do exactly that.



How can they take control of the pipes? Ukraine is a sovereign country, and it has the "right" to do anything it wants with any pipeline running through its territory. That is what makes this so complicated. Russia can't just go in and make them stop stealing gas or shutting down the pipeline.

I think it is Europeans and EU that really need to appeal to Ukraine to drop this idiocy. If Russia starts to make appeals or threats - you will have people around the world pointing fingers and saying that the evil commies are after Ukrainian freedoms or some similar #.

reply to post by maloy

---

Thanks for the reply.

I didn't know that Ukraine actually owned those pipes.This indeed complicates the situation.


I don't know,so far i'm troubled about the whole thing.

It is even more complicated than that. It appears that the Ukrainian portion of the pipeline is actually owned by Gazprom, however it is operated by UkrTransNafta, which is an intermediary company run by Ukraine's Naftogaz. It gets down to the details in the contract, but UkrTransNafta has physical control over the pipeline, and thus does whatever it wants (or gets told by Ukrainian government) with it.

...and controlled by Mogilevich. I bet he is tired of staying in prison in Moscow.

Slovakia declares State of emergency! And Bulgaria wants to restart unsafe nuclear reactors!


Reuters: Slovakia to call state of emergency over gas-agency



BBC: Bulgaria urges return to nuclear




Btw, there's a related thread here

reply to post by Hellmutt

---

Yep the little guys that pay their bills and cause no problems are the ones being hurt the most. Ukraine on the other hand has extensive reserves and can siphon from the pipeline ahead of the line. I think this is a real bad move by Ukraine, and it will come to haunt the remainder of Yuschenko's administration.

By the way I read that Germany has extensive reserves as well and is continuing to receive supplies through the Belarus pipeline. I am sure Germany's pipelines are linked with those of Bulgaria and other countries further south, so surely they can work out some sort of a deal.

reply to post by maloy

---

I dont know if this is the same thing as the drop in supply but I am reading this as they are actually cut off now?

From The Telegraph:

"Russia stopped all transit through Ukraine" at 7:44 am (0544 GMT), said Naftogaz spokesman Valentin Zemlyansky.

"Russia has left Europe without gas," he added.

Source:

www.telegraph.co.uk...





[edit on 7-1-2009 by MCoG1980]

For Germany and as a matter of fact the entire North-Western European countries it is not gonna be problematic. The Netherlands has the 2nd largest reserves in Europe, supplying the UK and Germany while Norway has the largest reserves and is geographically located in the same region.

In Budapest they've already ran out of gas as well as in some countries on the Balkan. Nice these Ukrainians...

No more gas here from 6.1. from 3p.m. CET!

It is becoming really ugly in some parts of country where people don't have alternative to gas!

The things will be even more worse as government is run by complete morons.

And Ukraine should ask their Western friends to pay their bills.

reply to post by Vojvoda

---

I hope it's not to cold in Serbia currently... I have a good friend living there by the way. Here in Holland it is currently -20. Perhaps Uncle Sam wouldn't mind printing 2,5 billion extra...

For one thing this is not so much about money as ego. Ukraine and Naftogas have the money to pay the bill - it's just that Ukrainian oligarchs want to hold on to this money as long as possible. Ukraine is playing these games more out of spite than out of financial necessity - they somehow feel entitled to receive gas at 1/3 of the market prices. The thing is this pipeline also runs through dozens of other European countries, and neither of them feels the same sense of entitlement.

And even if the money is paid, Ukraine and Gazprom still have not agreed to the 2009 supply contract - thus Ukraine may continue to keep the pipeline shut down. Ukraine has turned down Gazprom's offer to slightly raise 2009 prices, thus Ukraine officially is not entitled to receive any gas right now. The $2 billion debt only covers the past contract not the future.

This could potentially drag on for a while, but I think it is likely to end within a week. There is significant pressure on Ukraine and Gazprom now by the EU, and nobody really wants countries like Bulgaria to suffer.



By the way can anyone take a guess where the culprit of this mess, Yuschenko, is? He is on a skiing vacation, If somebody made that prick sit in an unheated house for a week maybe he would be a bit more concerned.

It is cold in all areas effected pretty much. Couldn't have happened at a worser time.




First the banks bailout, then the auto bailout, now the puppet-state bailout? US better invest in some money printing machines.

Actually even the full payment of debt might not help. In retaliation Ukraine now demands to raise gas transport prices by an absurd 300%, and Russia replied by offering to raise Ukraine's gas prices by 250%. This is completely rediculous and does not bring any resolution closer.