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A Brief on what Security Clearances really mean




Topic started on 31-12-2008 @ 05:41 AM by KyoZero


So I have been noticing something, not just here at ATS but in the general population. I think there is some misconceptions on security clearances which I would love to clear up.

As most of you already know there are 4 main clearance levels to consider;

Top Secret, Secret, Confidential, and Unclassified. There are also a host of little acronyms to look for as well such as SCI, CNWDI, CRYPTO, NOFORN and so on.

Here is a basic cutout...

TOP SECRET (TS) information is information which, if disclosed without authorization, could reasonably be expected to cause exceptionally grave damage to the national security.

SECRET (TS) information is information which, if disclosed without authorization, could reasonably be expected to cause serious damage to the national security.

CONFIDENTIAL (TS) information is information which, if disclosed without authorization, could reasonably be expected to cause damage to the national security.

So let me give you some insider info that might shock you or rather bore you, which is sort of the point.

Before I go on here is a little site with great summary information.

Security Classifications

I currently hold a TS with CNWDI and SCI. I see some people who think this is incredible. Well apart from being a pain in the ass and expensive as hell, it is really not much a big deal. I was a 2W2 (Nuclear Weapons Specialist) and am now a 3M0 (Services Chef). I still have a TS because it hasn't lapsed and I will try to keep it but more than likely I will be downgraded to a Secret after a few more years.

Having a TS is very much not a big deal to the general world. It isn't all hush-hush as some think it is and it is certainly not a pass t all sorts of information. I cannot go to Cheyenne or my Command Post and just peruse all the cool TS information. I cannot go to intelligence and find out all the cool details they know on a whim. In the same respect, Intelligence cannot just come out to my Nuke structures ((were I still a 2W2)) and just ask me things about the weapons design.

Here as some important factors to note.

1. Getting a TS is somewhat difficult if you don't have a clean record.

2. While a few jobs use that TS on a day to day basis, many TS holders often don't see any real TS information. I can count on both hands the amount of times I did.

3. TS information, when passed out takes measures beyond just the clearance level. If I were to be a shop chief and have some TS info or even Secret info to pass out, it requires the listener to not only have a TS clearance but also have what they call a 'need-to-know'. Simply put, if I have info to pass, you have a TS but are from some other job field, you aren't gonna know. In the same aspect if you are intelligence and my clearance outdoes yours, I am still not gonna know your details.

4. Most members of the Air Force have a Secret. All the chefs you meet in all the dining facilities you go to have one.

Anyway folks I am not trying to bust bubbles here. I am not an operative trying to get this site or you personally to stop discussing clearances. I love the open passing of free information and certainly you'll never hear details from me about my CNWDI clearance but I am telling you it isn't that big a deal.

One of the cool little things however is that when you go for a TS clearance, some agency ((be it NCIS, FBI, or OSI)) will talk to your family and friends during the investigation. The wild part is those people remember stuff about me me that even I don't remember! Well done :-p

Good to see the tax dollars working well somewhere.

Well sorry to break it to you folks, it just isn't that big a deal I don't think. Then again, this is just one man's opinion.

Have a fine day

-Kyo



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reply posted on 31-12-2008 @ 07:02 AM by imd12c4funn


I wondered what a 2W2 would be doing as a chef, until I read your #3 under factors and realized it was a typo.

Between Security Clearance and compartmentalism, I can see how it's no big deal, unless you give up a Counter Intelligence Spy because you don't liker her husband's report debunking Iraq/Africa purchases when you are trying to lie your way into an invasion.



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reply posted on 31-12-2008 @ 08:13 AM by KyoZero


Well I realize exceptions are to be made to every rule so I will apologize for too broad a generalisation. I know several intel folks, I know my 2W2's, I know my 2M0's, and Command Post and blah blah blah...what I am getting at is that people sensationalise this TS like it's god-like. It truly isn't. At least from my point of view hence why I said one man's opinions. I surely don't claim to know all when it comes to clearances so if I sounded that way I will apologize personally.

Either way, it's really not that big a deal IMO. OPSEC and COMSEC are far more important.

speaking of...what typo did you mean? I looked and didn't see it

anywho...off I go

-Kyo



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reply posted on 31-12-2008 @ 08:33 AM by hILB3rT


I agree with you on the over dramatic view of security clearances. I had a secret security clearance and then moved up to a top secret w/ SCI when I was in the military. While I never saw anything TS beyond high ranking officers clearance levels i.e. the post commander, Colonels, etc... and actually doing paperwork for other people to get there clearances. Its quite funny how the general public reacts to it.

I currently do data entry for 3m and one of the questions during the interview was if I ever had a clearance and what level. I told them yes but I didn't think they needed to know anymore. I was only playing with them but the reaction was pretty funny.

edit: fixed a mistake and made another
[edit on 31-12-2008 by hILB3rT]

[edit on 31-12-2008 by hILB3rT]



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reply posted on 31-12-2008 @ 08:46 AM by KyoZero


I will admit having a TS can make for some good jokes :-p

Good to know I wasn't alone in thinking that

Thank you media for overplaying something else!

-Kyo



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reply posted on 31-12-2008 @ 08:55 AM by hILB3rT


I think you hit the nail right on the head. Just like most things the media has way over played it.

I like telling people that when I got my clearance the "MIB" went to my family and friends house asking questions about me. Which isn't true but the reaction is all ways funny. They usually do a quick look around to see if anyone is watching them.

On a side note I don't go around bragging about having a clearance and usually only mention it if someone else brings it up. Plus I am pretty sure it has run out by now.



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reply posted on 31-12-2008 @ 09:19 AM by St Udio


Originally posted by hILB3rT
I agree with you on the over dramatic view of security clearances. I had a secret security clearance and then moved up to a top secret w/ SCI when I was in the military. While I never saw anything TS beyond high ranking officers clearance levels i.e. the post commander, Colonels, etc...

and actually doing paperwork for other people to get there clearances.




been there done that, too.
at one time along with access to the War Room, and being a Courier between out post and the Monteith Barracks where the CID was located...
I too processed the required security clearances the personnel needed.,

a glorified clerk-typist and a classified documents clerk, courier & recon duties...

so much ho-hum, there were NATO stuff that came through rarely & as the SP4 that processed 99.9% of everything coming through Battalion Intell & Recon. i had to have an arm long list of alphabet clearances
which were mainly the 4 levels the OP referenced...


for other readers, go to the Wikipedia, & get a more detailed picture of TS, S, C, U.. and the stuff whose code names themselves are classified


cheers,



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reply posted on 31-12-2008 @ 09:35 AM by KyoZero


sure is nice to have it for jobs though outside the military

-Kyo



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reply posted on 31-12-2008 @ 09:41 AM by hILB3rT


Indeed, I was actually kind of surprised at how many civilian jobs need clearances. I am attending college for computer science with a focus on computer programming and as I look over the job market I would say at least half the programming jobs say security clearance is a bonus but not required, or something to that effect. I think they like you to already have it so they don't have to spend the money on getting it for you.

[edit on 31-12-2008 by hILB3rT]



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reply posted on 31-12-2008 @ 11:12 AM by KyoZero


amen to that...those TS and S's cost a ton

Take quite some time to for all the interviews for TS

-Kyo



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reply posted on 31-12-2008 @ 10:05 PM by Researcher


Having held various security clearances for 35 years, I can tell you...

Top Secrets are coverups of foulups.

Secrets really need to stay that way.

Dain Bramaged morons will demand that you tell them secrets. Threaten you with violence. Meet the nice federal agent, dork...

Dimwits will tell you that you can't tell people you have a clearance. Ignoring the fact that everyone you know was questioned by the investigators.

People I like tell me that a federal cop came around and said I was being investigated for a clearance and there was no problem. People I despise tell me some cop came around asking all kinds of questions and are you in trouble?



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reply posted on 31-12-2008 @ 10:06 PM by Researcher


( duplicate post )

[edit on 31-12-2008 by Researcher]



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reply posted on 31-12-2008 @ 10:07 PM by Researcher


( duplicate of duplicate post )

[edit on 31-12-2008 by Researcher]



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reply posted on 1-1-2009 @ 05:38 AM by KyoZero


TS's aren't coverups for [snip]ups...I got mine just so I could work on what I did...

I will however send a serious round of applause for the last two sentences...so so so so true

Some people told me...wow man some guy came to my house to check on you

Others said...what did you do?

Nice :-p

-Kyo



Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 1-1-2009 by 12m8keall2c]



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reply posted on 1-1-2009 @ 07:39 AM by BlackProjects


reply to post by KyoZero




Had not heard of CNWDI before.. What is that? Having a clearance is a help in job market. I was recently laid off and over half positions I am matching require at least secret.



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reply posted on 1-1-2009 @ 09:19 AM by KyoZero


CNWDI - Criticial Nuclear Weapons Design Information

I worked in Minot for 6 years a Nuclear Weapons Specialist

mods...SO sorry for the foul language thing...totally unintentional!

-Kyo



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reply posted on 1-1-2009 @ 10:43 AM by Researcher


reply to post by KyoZero



By Top Secrets, I mean incidents which have been classified TS. Not the people who are cleared, or the position they hold.



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reply posted on 1-1-2009 @ 11:28 AM by KyoZero


wow...I am so dense :-p

Please accept my apology for that :-p

-Kyo



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