a realistic veiw!

welll im preety sure after reading some of the posts here ill be in the minority on this site , but i find the possibilty of aliens here on earth very highly unlikely.

now before you go completly nutz on me let me explain my thoughts.

i am a firm believer in the idea of intellegent life in the universe. being well versed in cosmology i have a pretty good understanding of the scope of the universe as a whole and the odds alone suggest that life is out there.

however the idea that aliens have an ongoing presence here on earth is a little counter intuiative in my opinion.

reasons:
1. technology- having the technology to reach our planet alone is so far ahead of our own tech that one is hard pressed to see a reason an advanced civ would be interested past initial observation. to beleive they would be is a human idea called self importance! unless ofcourse you belieive the aliens originate here in our own solar system? which i find hard to beleive!

2. justification- how would an advanced civ justify itself in an ongoing of human orifices when they could simple take a few dozen and be done with it? it isnt hard to reproduce humans in a controlled invironment is it? of course im taking for granted that these aliens are benevolent as they are portrayed.

3. manpower- if there here there everywhere,right? wouldnt it lead to follow that if they seen fit to come here they would also be interested in the countless other species populating the various eden's of the universe?
in order for that to be possible it would take one helluva staff to simply handle the logisticleproblems involed wouldnt it?

conveinience- wouldnt it be easier to moniter our civ from home. we have the hubble im sure they have the hubble to the tenth power, correct?
why then should they feel a need for an ongoing presence?

there are a multitude of other reasons i find an ongoing presence unlikely, but for now this will do.

ohh there out there. have no doubt of that, but wheather we are a priority or not is the debate at hand in my opinion. are we really that interesting other than the fact that we love to make war on one another much less anyone that may drop by on us?

the government is evil, but inept aswell. to think there is an ongoing conspiracy with aliens is not sound.

why you ask?

because the alins woulve taken over operations long ago my friend.
once the seen realized the level of stupidy our government operates on a coo would have been in order from the get go!

technology-our technology might be developing differently from theirs.

justification-maybe they have taken some of us, but we ourselves prefer to observe animals in their natural habitat.

manpower-biologists here on earth have that problem, that doesnt stop them.

conveinience-the hubble telescope sees light that started its journey years ago, if alien telescope monitored earth from 10 light away, the info it would gather would be 10 years out of date.

Maybe they are controlling the governments.


[Edited on 7-4-2004 by TPL]

I think it is even simpler than that...

We, ourselves as humans, are already monitoring and examining lesser beings, here on earth alone. Why would it be different if we could travel to a place where a civilization as such would have evolved, even if it were insignificantly evolved? We are, by nature, curious, and that is how one advances. Why would it be different for another intelligent species?

[EDIT]
Also, about your manpower point... Considering the rate at which the human population is growing, I have no doubt that a civilization with such an advance in technology would be years and years older (millions of year, maybe more...). Thus, and accepting that they thus probably have colonies outside their home world, their population is probably outnumbering ours by far also...

[Edited on 7-4-2004 by SpookyVince]

the point im try to make here is that a civ millions of years in advance of our own would have tech sufficient enought to circumvent first hand obsevation!

if scientists could moniter events with the same precision as a feild operative from their respective laboratories there would be no need to risk feild work.

since we are using analgies here i have one aswell.

lets say that we are the observing civ and the civ we are examining is very brutal in its very nature. now its true that if we choose to we could eradicate said civ, but then we would lose all future discoveries dependant on its survival!

so it is in or best interest to study these creatures from afar to avoid contact and therfore conflict. add into the equation that we have tech that advances in a consitent pattern over the course of millenia and we certainly should have the means to reproduce the feild experience right in our futuristic laboritories!

with that said i maintain my stance based on logic,and the natural course of our own ever evolving sophistication as a loose guide to the ability of a civ much in advance of our own!


as to the manpower point it is purley speculative that another species would reproduce or even see the benefits of reproduction as their respective life cycles aswell as social structure may not be the same as our own. there are so many variables involved in social patterns among species of our own planet that venturing a guess at some other ecosystems plausible outcomes is almost certainly impossible!

as to the idea that our government is controlled by aliens!

well all i can say to that is------ in a infinite universe,with infinity as a timescale anything that can happen will happen at some point. therefore it is possible although highly unlikly!

the point im try to make here is that a civ millions of years in advance of our own would have tech sufficient enought to circumvent first hand obsevation!

if scientists could moniter events with the same precision as a feild operative from their respective laboratories there would be no need to risk feild work.

Who is to say Earth itself is not a futuristic laboratory...

[Edited on 7-4-2004 by spngsambigpants]

I do agree that it's probably unlikely, but there's that little nagging voice that is forcing me to reply

Originally posted by SINGULARITY
reasons:
1. technology- having the technology to reach our planet alone is so far ahead of our own tech that one is hard pressed to see a reason an advanced civ would be interested past initial observation. to beleive they would be is a human idea called self importance! unless ofcourse you belieive the aliens originate here in our own solar system? which i find hard to beleive!

We study bacteria, insects, and monkeys, all of which are much less advanced than us. IF they have curiosity, that's reason enough.

2. justification- how would an advanced civ justify itself in an ongoing of human orifices when they could simple take a few dozen and be done with it? it isnt hard to reproduce humans in a controlled invironment is it?

Ethical rules against raising an intelligent life-form for the sole use of experimentatin?

3. manpower- if there here there everywhere,right? wouldnt it lead to follow that if they seen fit to come here they would also be interested in the countless other species populating the various eden's of the universe?

Who says they aren't? We have the abiltiy to send scientific teams to mroe than one place at a time, so should they.

in order for that to be possible it would take one helluva staff to simply handle the logisticleproblems involed wouldnt it?

If they have the technolgoy to travle to other stars in sizable numbers, they have the abiltiy to get supplies and communications through.

conveinience- wouldnt it be easier to moniter our civ from home. we have the hubble im sure they have the hubble to the tenth power, correct?

If they want to monitor the planet as it was thousands of years ago. Light only moves at lightspeed, after all

why then should they feel a need for an ongoing presence?

Curiosity, or their experiments aren't finished.

i am aware that this is purely a hypothetical arguement. that said there are an infinte amount of possiblites either way you choose to veiw the intial obsevation. yes, anything is possible. yes, everything mentioned in this thread by all posters is possible, but as for one i tend to lean towards what i beleive to be a logical conclusion concerning the facts.

the facts are the the idea of an alien presence on earth or the ideas put forth by those that support that idea is based soley on suspisions and at best vague information. there is not one shred of definitive proof to support those who believe in a on-going presence much less any form of subterfuge on the part of our government either in conjuction with or without aliens!

since approximatly 1947 i beleive this idea has grown to almost obsurd levels.

i ask myself how could our government let alone all the governments of the world conspire to disguise such frequent and frankly blatent abduction,infiltration,cooperation, that would be required to hide such an event? take into account we are talking about a government that cant locate osama,seems to have problems handling terrorism, and lacks the ability to hide scandels such as slick willies oval office interviews with monica, iran contra, white water, watergate and many many other fubars along the way.

ohhhhh, thats right its the shadow government, the investment bankers, or better yet the nwo!

i mean common at some point we must address the fact that the reality of the situation is somtimes simple.

im sure many here are familiar with the theory that all things being equal the simplest explination is usually the correct one!

there is a shady side to true science and that is popular imagination. when left un-checked it becomes a hindrance to those who strive to reach for the stars and the wonders that await us there!

beleive what you will as that is a luxory afforded you by the times you live in, but do not let you imagination run afoul to the point of stupidity is all im trying to say!