Wait a second?... How is it that I'm the one that's crazy, insane, delusional, and brainwashed?

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posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 11:18 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
Sorry ... but it was radical islamic terrorists who pulled it off.
And it was definately airplanes that flew into the buildings.
And the passengers of Flight 93 pulled it down - before being shot down.
It's just the truth.


It's just the truth...no matter what the evidence says.

Who are you trying to convince us or yourself?




posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 11:20 AM
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I'm not going to lie when I say this, but I haven't followed ANY 9-11 conspiracies. Hell, I don't really know if there is even one. I'm not here saying I watch FOX, CNN, NBC, and all the other news on TV, or believe every word of it. I understand every station is biased, and has a certain agenda/audience to uphold.

Now, if this was such an inside job, and this big of a coverup, then why aren't they trying to cover up any of these youtube videos, or conspiracy books/authors from revealing the truth? What your saying is, the government killed MANY people over 9-11, but they aren't willing to "silence" these authors of books or producers of youtube videos? Kind of weak if you ask me. Maybe thats why I don't believe just yet. Things don't seem to add up to you, but the easiest people to "silence" or "coverup" haven't, and that to me doesn't even come close to adding up.




[edit on 30-12-2008 by TravisT]



posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 11:21 AM
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How about you think of it like this. Let's say that these Muslim extremists are so clever that they have devised a plan to unsettle Americans and make them question their own government. This not only allows them to still look like the innocents in all of this but allows those already questioning their government to snap and totally go down a one way street of believing that everything being said is 'one big lie'. I think all of you need to snap out of this, I'm right your wrong scenario. As at this time your helping to spread the extremist mind......Clever ah!



posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Sorry ... but it was radical islamic terrorists who pulled it off.
And it was definately airplanes that flew into the buildings.
And the passengers of Flight 93 pulled it down - before being shot down.
It's just the truth.


It's just the truth...no matter what the evidence says.

Who are you trying to convince us or yourself?



I need no convincing. I watched the plane fly into the Pentagon. I wasn't in NY so I can't speak to that. I wasn't in PA, so I can't speak to that.

I was however in DC and watched the plane fly into the Pentagon.

You see, the reporters showed up AFTER, they weren't there during.



posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by Doomsday 2029
 

Dude keep it up, you will never educate pork my friend so you just have to put up with swine.

I have questioned many of the allegations of conspiercy theorists some times, but this vid wakes me up every time.




Aww, come on man! That guy is a LOON! He has no evidence at all! He has no ground to stand on! He doesn't have a clue what he is talking about even though he is DEAD ON with his claims!

Okay, now that I got the moronic smear attempts out of the way I must say that that guy has a sack the size of a bowling ball! Very nice video there. I can't believe I haven't seen it before. Yet nothing ever came of it. Just goes to show you how deep the scandal runs.



posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by TravisT
 


Very simple my friend. They don't need to silence them. You need to actually research the 911 events and evidence. What you will find are a string of name calling and character assassinations being put out by the government reps. If someone brings something out they get laughed at. Eventually the news smears them too and, as with many of the big lies in our history, when the lie is told enough the general populace begin to believe it for truth. Because after all, the government said it was so and the NEWS affirmed it. Right?



posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by CameronFox
reply to post by Zykloner
 


Edit is noted.

What type of research do you plan on doing?


Dont think i said i will do any research on 911 at all.
Not one of my favourite subjects either.
It was more a tribute to those who do, but have to defend themself from the harassment of people who "know" all the time.

BTW:
If anyone know there is no conspiracy, i would like to know how



posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 11:35 AM
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Originally posted by CameronFox

Originally posted by Doomsday 2029


So here is my reply:

You watched CNN, FOX News, and CBS... in other words, filtered information.


You don't know what I watched. You don't know the research I have done.


The youtube argument needs to die.



Well, what documentaries have you watched regarding 911 that were NOT on Youtube or Google that lead you to believe 911 was an inside job?

Again, don't tell me what I watch and don't watch on TV.



let me guess you watched the history channel and read popular mechanics right LOL



posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 11:41 AM
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posted by CameronFox
What have you accomplished Preston? You post every day on over 8 forums. What has that done for any of the victims family members?

Have you contacted the family members of flight 93 and told them that their calls were either faked or staged?

Come on... what have you done?


Still obsessing over what I am doing or not doing?

Actually now that I think about it; it is 11 forums - but not every day and for some not even every week or every month. I have a favorite few, one of which is ATS, with a large number of open-minded individuals looking in and adding their own research and observations. Actually this is quite energizing; keeping me young. I am constantly amazed by the excellent observations coming from my fellow 9-11 Truthers, most of whom I have never come in contact with in the past. Then there are the OBSESSED government loyalist fanatics frantically trying to derail every pertinent thread and OBSESSIVELY trying to drown us out and shut us down.

Except for the husband of Cee Cee Lyons, who probably already suspects that their calls were either faked or staged, most of the other families probably do not exist. Why else would they shut down LAX when the families of the alleged victims of the three flights which were supposed to land there, would have been showing up? How come the reporter only saw two family members of the alleged people on the three flights three hours later? Don't the airlines usually console the families of victims of air disasters? There should have been hundreds; even thousands of California family members and friends and fellow employees showing up for the victims of all four flights, and both airports were shut down and evacuated?

Flight 11 - Logan Intl Airport in Boston to Los Angeles Intl Airport
Flight 175 - Logan Intl Airport in Boston to Los Angeles Intl Airport
Flight 77 - Washington Dulles Intl Airport to Los Angeles Intl Airport
Flight 93 - Newark Intl Airport to San Francisco Intl Airport

LAX Evacuated (7:25 in video)



Why? So the American people and the reporters and the world would not quickly realize that most of the alleged passengers on board those alleged hijacked aircraft were either fictional or not dead after all?

So they evacuated and closed down LAX (and SFO) on 9-11 because???

1. So the American people would not see that there were strangely not very many grieving families for the alleged passengers supposedly killed on the three flights allegedly headed for LAX? Only two grievers (finally) at LAX three hours after the alleged crashes into the WTC? Maybe those two were actors hurriedly sent into emergency action? The reporters were there expecting to see hundreds, even thousands of grieving family members and friends with lots of questions; so who screwed up and forgot to arrange the grieving families for the passengers who were never on the aircraft? We already know there were NO HIJACKERS. This 9-11 OFFICIAL STORY just gets more and more stupid and unbelievable almost daily.

2. They did not have room for the thousands of grieving family members from three alleged crashed flights so the heck with them?

3. They received warnings of threats against LAX?

4. Some other reason which makes the least bit of sense?



8 a.m. -- American Airlines Flight 11, Boeing 767 with 92 people on board, takes off from Boston's Logan International Airport for Los Angeles.

8:14 a.m. -- United Air Lines Flight 175, Boeing 767 with 65 people on board, takes off from Boston's Logan airport for Los Angeles.

8:21 a.m. -- American Airlines Flight 77, Boeing 757 with 64 people on board, takes off from Washington Dulles International Airport for Los Angeles.

8:41 a.m. -- United Air Lines Flight 93, Boeing 757 with 44 people on board, takes off from Newark International Airport for San Francisco.

12:04 p.m. -- Los Angeles International Airport, the destination of three of the hijacked airplanes, is closed and evacuated.

12:15 p.m. -- San Francisco International Airport, the destination of United Airlines Flight 93, which crashed in Pennsylvania, is closed and evacuated.

www.foxnews.com...





[edit on 12/30/08 by SPreston]



posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 11:43 AM
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reply to post by Doomsday 2029
 


So true brother. Took the words right out my mouth. I think you wrote (posted) what so many of us are feeling. Thank you for taking the time to say what is on the minds of many of us. Star and Flag for you brother. Hopefully one day the Criminals will be brought to justice. And by Criminals I mean Bush and Co. and his handlers. It is so sad that WE the American people have been hoodwinked, but the frustrating part is that sooo many people actually buy into the 'official' story.



posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 11:43 AM
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i have said it before and will say this again.. anyone that continues to spill the propaganda garbage knowingly will be liable for aiding and abeting war criminals in the future.. just keep that in mind..



posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 11:48 AM
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reply to post by Alienmojo
 


didnt you see the strings tied to bush. he is a puppet. and we wont ever see the master. thats the way they want it.



posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by dariousg
reply to post by TravisT
 


Very simple my friend. They don't need to silence them. You need to actually research the 911 events and evidence. What you will find are a string of name calling and character assassinations being put out by the government reps. If someone brings something out they get laughed at. Eventually the news smears them too and, as with many of the big lies in our history, when the lie is told enough the general populace begin to believe it for truth. Because after all, the government said it was so and the NEWS affirmed it. Right?
So the government had no problem killing thousands of people in the buildings, but they can't off a few hundred who actually know the truth?

So let me get this straight again:

The government has no problem killing thousands of US citizens?

They find it easier to "character assassinate" individuals who know about a coverup?

And most of the US citizens believe all this because our News is so biased we'll believe anything?


So then, what was the point of all the death by the government in the first place? If all this crap was to go to war or oil, then wouldn't it be easier to "brainwash" all of the US through the News, just like how they do with these so called coverups, and tell us we have to go to war?


[edit on 30-12-2008 by TravisT]



posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 11:49 AM
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Why do we even give shills like CameronFox the time of day? He got owned by the OP. End of story. He gets everything he knows off of Popular Mechanics and

Let's see him spin these facts:

1. Andrews Air Force base is 10 miles away from the Pentagon, but no fighters were ever scrambled from it. Only someone on the inside could stand down those fighters.

2. The Secret Service violated standard operating procedures when they failed to secure the President even though his location was publicized and an international airport was only 4 miles away. Only someone on the inside could stand down the secret service.

3. NORAD has told three contradictory stories about why they failed. All of those stories have obvious problems. Why the cover-up?

4. An amazing amount of war game exercises were running on the morning of 9-11 that involved terrorism, live-fly hijackings, and planes crashing into buildings. One exercise, Global Guardian, was originally scheduled for October, but was moved down to September. Only someone on the inside could schedule and move training exercises to coincide with the attacks.

5. For the first time since 1997, the DOD's hijacking approach was changed 3 months before 9/11. The new rules stated that any interception orders had to be approved directly by the Secretary of Defense. Only someone on the inside could fix the rules.

6. George Bush and Dick Cheney asked Tom Daschle to 'limit the investigation'. Why was this done? The Bush-Cheney administration initially didn't even want an investigation. When the investigation started, the Bush administration denied them some documents and only gave them $3 million dollars (Absurdly low for a national investigation, especially when it comes to something like September 11). The investigation wasn't started until long afterwards. Why were insiders so reluctant on having 9-11 investigated?

7. The 911 Commission says that Norman Mineta arrived at the PEOC at 9:58, but Norman Mineta testified under oath that Cheney was there at 9:20.

8. Terrorist investigations in the summer of 9/11 were quashed by high-level FBI officials. FBI agents were pulled off the Bin Laden family's trail in the summer before 9/11. Only insiders had the power to restrict investigations.

9. Five Israeli agents were arrested in New York cheering as the Towers burned. Initial reports stated that their van was packed with explosives.

10. Ben Fountain reports that, in the weeks before 9/11, there were an unusual amount of evacuations.

11. Six of the alleged hijackers trained under a CIA informant, two lived with an FBI informant, two of the hijacker pilots trained at a CIA-linked Flight School, Five of them lived near the NSA, two of them lived near the CIA, and six of them reportedly trained at US bases.

12. Building 7 fell exactly like a controlled demolition. It fell straight down in under 7 seconds, producing massive amounts of fine, pulverized concrete dust

Come on, debunker shills. None of you can explain:

-The hijackers' ties to the US Military-Intelligence Community
-The explosions inside the WTC
-The Five Dancing Israelis
-The stand down of Andrews AFB fighters
-The war games
-The stand down of the Secret Service
-The fire drill
-The nuclear chemicals in the WTC dust
-The melted steel
-The low-level flashes immediately prior to the collapse
-Building 7
-The strange holes in WTC6, WTC7, WTC4, WTC3
-The lack of any plane at Shanksville
-The North Side witnesses at the Pentagon
-The TV Fakery evidence
-The media whitewash
-The evidence of exotic weaponry use

Start doing research, guys. And no, browsing through the pages of debunking911 and JREF is not research.



posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by Alienmojo

Originally posted by Doomsday 2029
Dear 9-11 conspiracy debunker,

If you have done half the amount of research that I have done on the subject... and you still think 9-11 was the work of Osama Bin Laden and 19 hijackers... then you sir, are the one that's delusional... not me.

And I'm absolutly, positivly, without a shadow of a doubt not in the least bit brainwashed when I tell you that flight 93 didn't crash in a field in Pennsylvania.

I don't think your any more delusional than I am. I don't know what to believe anymore. I know WTC 7 was brought down on purpose to hide evidence, I know that flight 93 didn't happen the way they said it did, and I don't know what hit the pentagon, but I don't think it was an airplane. BUT, I find it so hard to believe that George Bush could have made something like this... even to have said yes to it. I want to be polite...but let's face it... the man's an idiot. This thing is so complicated I just don't know what to believe anymore... I don't know what that makes me.



What makes You think Bush is an idiot. The man has done or finished every goal he has set for himself. The oil company He supposedly ran into the ground was not a oil company it was a drug smuggling operation in the guise of an offshore oil company. The man is a idiot and to be honest I think He is quite intelligent because He has fooled so many people into thinking He is a dumbass. He is the one that has fooled the American people and made off with billions of dollars. To me He seems like the smart one and the American people seem to be the idiots.



posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 12:00 PM
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posted by LordCarpainter

Why do we even give shills like CameronFox the time of day? He got owned by the OP. End of story. He gets everything he knows off of Popular Mechanics and



I totally agree with you; except: My replies are aimed at open-minded persons who might already be 9-11 Truthers or loyal patriots who are simply looking in to see what all the ruckus is about. My replies and threads are not directly intended for the shills and disinfo agents and fanatical 9-11 OFFICIAL STORY government loyalists such as CameronFox or Seymour Butz or pinch [snip] and others. They are a hopeless cause and incapable of education or truth.


[edit: personal information removed]

[edit on 2-1-2009 by 12m8keall2c]



posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 12:01 PM
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Actually now that I think about it; it is 11 forums - but not every day and for some not even every week or every month. I have a favorite few, one of which is ATS, with a large number of open-minded individuals looking in and adding their own research and observations. Actually this is quite energizing; keeping me young. I am constantly amazed by the excellent observations coming from my fellow 9-11 Truthers, most of whom I have never come in contact with in the past. Then there are the OBSESSED government loyalist fanatics frantically trying to derail every pertinent thread and OBSESSIVELY trying to drown us out and shut us down.


And this is sort of what I am talking about. If you believe there is a conspiracy, you make excellent observations, and clearly are a very smart person, but if you do not, you are a government loyal fanatic who is trying to derail everything because of some secret agenda or blind nationalism.

The one thing that is most in common with those who believe in these theories, is their incredibly biased slant on any subject regarding 9/11. If someone doesn't think it was an inside job, they are clearly blind stupid sheep, unable to use logic or common sense to come to a conclusion, is that it? And every possible speculation made by someone who supports these theories is obviously correct, even if the logic to get there stretches the fabric of believability?

There has been a few points that have been made that have caused me to check facts again, and see if there is more to it all. I think the government might be hiding some facts from us. But I don't think they committed mass murder via an unnecessarily complex plan simply to come up with some reason to go to war.

But I've never seen a 'truther' admit that something might be speculation, a guess, or maybe wrong. They are always right, no matter how ludicrous the theory is. Amazing.



posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 12:03 PM
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post by HunkaHunka
 


how far away were you when you saw this "plane" no one is saying that nothing hit the pentagon.. but it was definetly not a boeng 757,perhaps you should see testimony from an insiders account someone who lived thru the "crash"




By helping the attack succeed, defendants and their cohorts created a basis for the seizure of extraordinary power, and a pretext for launching the so-called Global War on Terror, in the guise of which they were free to pursue plans for military conquest, “full spectrum dominance” and “American primacy” around the world; as they have done,” reads the lawsuit.

Attorney William Veale says that if the lawsuit gets past a motion to dismiss, it may be the key which will unlock a plethora of disturbing questions about 9/11.

“What they don’t want is for this to go into discovery,” William Veale told Raw Story. “If we can make it past their initial motion to dismiss these claims, and we get the power of subpoena, then we’ve got a real shot at getting to the bottom of this. We’ve got the law on our side.”

The full text of the lawsuit is reprinted below.

—————————————————————————

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK ___

APRIL GALLOP, for Herself and as Mother and Next Friend of ELISHA GALLOP, a Minor, No. _____________

Plaintiff, Jury Trial Demanded

vs.

DICK CHENEY, Vice President of the U.S.A., DONALD RUMSFELD, former U.S. Secretary of Defense, General RICHARD MYERS, U.S.A.F. (Ret.), and John Does Nos. 1– X, all in their individual capacities, Defendants.

__________________________________________

COMPLAINT FOR VIOLATION OF CIVIL RIGHTS, CONSPIRACY, AND OTHER WRONGS

PRELIMINARY STATEMENT

1. This case arises from the infamous Attack on America of Sept 11, 2001, and especially on the Pentagon; and is premised on an allegation of broad complicity in the attack on the part of key U.S. Government officials, beginning with and led from the top by Vice President Dick Cheney, then-Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, and Richard Myers, then acting Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The plaintiffs allege that these and other government officials, whose identities will be ascertained from their proven or evident relevant roles and activities, and who are named herein as ‘John Doe’ defendants, together with other known and unknown operatives and functionaries, official and otherwise, engaged in an unlawful conspiracy, or a set of related, ongoing conspiracies, in which the concrete objective was to facilitate and enable the hijacking of the airliners, and their use as living bombs to attack buildings containing thousands of innocent victims; and then to cover up the truth about what they had done.

2. The defendants’ purpose in aiding and facilitating the attack, and the overall object of the conspirac(ies), was to bring about an unprecedented, horrifying and frightening catastrophe of terrorism inside the United States, which would give rise to a powerful reaction of fear and anger in the public, and in Washington. This would generate a political atmosphere of acceptance in which the new Administration could enact and implement radical changes in the policy and practice of constitutional government in our country. Much of their intention was spelled out prior to their coming into office, in publications of the so-called Project for the New American Century, of which defendants Cheney and Rumsfeld were major sponsors. There they set forth specific objectives regarding the projection of U.S. military power abroad, particularly in Iraq, the Persian Gulf, and other oil-producing areas. They observed, however, that the American people would not likely support the actions the sponsors believed were necessary, without being shocked into a new outlook by something cataclysmic: “a new Pearl Harbor”. By helping the attack succeed, defendants and their cohorts created a basis for the seizure of extraordinary power, and a pretext for launching the so-called Global War on Terror, in the guise of which they were free to pursue plans for military conquest, “full spectrum dominance” and “American primacy” around the world; as they have done.

3. In pursuit of the goals of the conspiracy, the named and unnamed defendants knowingly and by agreement committed a series of acts and omissions which were aimed at and did generally accomplish the following objectives:

+ To permit the men they later identified as the hijackers and any immediate accomplices to enter and remain in the country, and carry out the activities, movements and communications needed in their preparations for the hijacking, free from interference by police or counter-terrorist authorities; and then allow the groups of these men to book passage, all on the same day, and board the flights;

+ To cause normal operation of the regular off-course airline flight interception practice of the US Air Force, in cooperation with civil flight control authorities, to be altered, suspended or disrupted in such a way as to remove its protections, at least on that day, and thus permit three of the four apparently hijacked planes to reach their targets and crash into them (or appear to do so…);1

+ To cause the normal operation of ground and air defenses which guard the Pentagon from external attack to be altered, suspended or disrupted in such a way as to remove or negate the building’s normal protections, and thus permit an airliner, believed to be hijacked by possible suicide bombers, and following a forbidden, descending flight path, to reach the Pentagon undeterred;

+ To cause and arrange for high explosive charges to be detonated inside the Pentagon, and/or a missile of some sort to be fired at the building, at or about the time the wayward airliner supposedly arrived there, to give the false impression that hijackers had crashed the plane into the building, as had apparently happened in New York;

+ To arrange, thereafter, and fabricate, propound and defend, as part of the conspiracy, an elaborate, highly complex and sophisticated cover-up, centering around the Report of the 9/11 Commission, and continuing to this day. To this end, defendants misappropriated the highest authority of government to block, misdirect and otherwise evade any fair, independent investigation of the evidence, and officially if implausibly explain away the evident wholesale failure of America’s defenses with misinformation, omissions and distortions, withheld and destroyed evidence, and outright lies.

4. In the attack on the Pentagon, in particular, plaintiff avers that the official story, that a hijacked plane crashed into the Pentagon and exploded (causing the plaintiff’s injuries), is false. In fact, the bombing was accomplished another way, so as to limit the damage, protect the defendants, and only make it appear that a plane had been crashed into the building. This claim is supported by data from the plane’s supposed “black box”, released by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), which indicate the plane passed over the building at very low altitude, just as an explosion and fireball were engineered by other means, a planted bomb or bombs and/or a missile. This is supported by the lack of any photographic evidence of a wrecked airliner at the Pentagon, compounded by the record of reported refusal by the U.S. Department of Justice to release some 85 video tapes from surveillance cameras in locations at or near the Pentagon, which it has declared exempt from Freedom of Information Act disclosure.

5. Whatever way the bombing of the Pentagon was accomplished, however, and whatever else may or may not have been done by defendants to facilitate the hijackings that day, it is clear the defendant top commanders would have had and did have, at a profound minimum, enough foreknowledge, on that day



posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 12:07 PM
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posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by TravisT
 


killing people off in the information age wouldnt work for them it would work againts them.Perhaps it would have worked before when information would not have spread as fast as it did today.. by doing this on a large scale it would actually reinforce the theories...also remember millions of people now beleive 911 was an inside job.. (check the last few polls) so you cannot off that many people lol

[edit on 30-12-2008 by thefreepatriot]





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