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posted on Dec, 29 2008 @ 09:13 AM
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Why is this planet capable of supporting life?

It sits in orbit around a sun at just the right distance and just the right angle bringing sunlight to this third rock from the sun which brings chemical/life reactions in both atmosphere and surface.

We are in a relationship with the earth ……..we take life giving substance from the earth and in return we should give back to the earth in order for the cycle to continue to support life. (lol not yet but this is the Shamanic way)

Why am I here in a Eden of Oxygen/Carbon Dioxide/Water/Salt/nitrogen etc etc that supports life on earth??

So…if I go way back I must be related to other mammals and primates and for that matter single cell creatures who survived long enough to reproduce….never mind all the humans Grandfathers and Grandmothers who met and survived long enough to reproduce. Crazy.

Also...Child is a result of parents which breaks down to 4 GP which breaks down to Great Grand Parents…….Grand mother has two…..Grandfather has two…parents which translates into 8 greatgrand parents…meeting and living long enough to reproduce …….in order to have my grand parents in order to have me (child)………..those 8 greatgrandparents each have two parents that lived long enough to reproduce and have my Great grandparents……..all 8 of them……..which brings the number to 16…..Great Great grandparents……then 32….then 64…..then 128…then 256…..then 512……then 1024……then 2048…..etc





posted on Dec, 29 2008 @ 09:30 AM
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Neither.

Hardware is simple perception, software is simple perception processing.

I am the end user.

(when this 'ride' is over, I will return to myself, my source, free of 'constructs' and 'meta-programming')



posted on Dec, 29 2008 @ 06:01 PM
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This is one result of the hardwaré...sofware...question.

Imprinting




The best known form of imprinting is filial imprinting, in which a young animal learns the characteristics of its parent. It is most obvious in nidifugous birds, who imprint on their parents and then follow them around. It was first reported in domestic chickens, by the 19th century amateur biologist Douglas Spalding. It was rediscovered by the early ethologist Oskar Heinroth, and studied extensively and popularised by his disciple Konrad Lorenz working with greylag geese. Lorenz demonstrated how incubator-hatched geese would imprint on the first suitable moving stimulus they saw within what he called a "critical period" between 13-16 hours shortly after hatching. Most famously, the goslings would imprint on Lorenz himself (more specifically, on his wading boots), and he is often depicted being followed by a gaggle of geese who had imprinted on him. Filial imprinting is not restricted to animals that are able to follow their parents, however; in child development the term is used to refer to the process by which a baby learns who its mother and father are. The process is recognised as beginning in the womb, when the unborn baby starts to recognise its parents' voices (Kissilevsky et al, 2003).
en.wikipedia.org...(psychology)


Anther example I have looked at would be the Zebra, giving birth and being struck by the jeep. The Baby Zebra imprinted with the jeep.


This may shed some light on hardware and software ....which really means being a Robot by the way...Robots are both right...maybe...maybe not..

Anyway lest look at dogs and cats and such.




The question of how human an animal is (especially a pet dog
or cat) never ceases to divide scientists from laypersons—and
one scientist from another. In terms of the present theory, the
differences between domesticated primates (humans) and other
domesticated animals are virtually nil, as long as we are talking
only about the first two circuits. (Since most people spend most
of their time on these primitive circuits, the differences are often
68 Prometheus Rising
much less obvious than the similarities.) Real differences begin
to appear when the third, semantic circuit enters the picture.



So if we are both hardware and software we are robots...no



posted on Dec, 29 2008 @ 06:43 PM
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A very good topic might I add.

It made me think but I have to edge towards the hardware.. Though I work in IT and tend to support both, My main computer is cooled via "Vinegar" using a 240 volt maxi jet pump.

This is just the start of the cooling, combined with a decent radiator and resovoir my temps are literally 30+degrees lower than normal heatsink+fan combo.

I have an athlon XP2200+ These CPU's were known to run rather hot specially under full load. Mine reached temps of 60+ degrees before changing the cooling system several years ago.

At the moment under full load my cpu has reached 27 degrees celcious. This system is left on all day and all night usually.

At the moment this type of cooling is not going to be for everyone because it has been fairly high maintenance of late with blockages and I have to make sure my Airedale Terrier doesnt lean against the tower when hes bored.

The noise level is (for me) bearable. It gives of a vibrational hum. After a while I dont even know its there and it doesnt sound any worse than a ticking of a clock.

Now this type of cooling is certainly not without its dangers... mixing water and elastictricity could lead to tears as its done before in the past for me. I accidently gave it a bath which resulted in frying my expensive video card. Though I use distilledwater which lowers the risk somwhat, its still not going to be 100% safe.

So 1 bath in 4 years, I'd say Im ok with that -)

Morgs



posted on Dec, 29 2008 @ 07:15 PM
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It made me think but I have to edge towards the hardware.. Though I work in IT and tend to support both, My main computer is cooled via "Vinegar" using a 240 volt maxi jet pump.


reply to post by morg9000
 



My blood cools me.

If i look at life through the bio Survival glasses and socia-economic meal ticket glasses I am a robot........both hardware and software are imprinted with the messages I recieve through my 5 senses.

Yes No


.....................................................................................




Generally speaking, these techniques are meant to provide the basic necessities for human life: fire, water, food, shelter, habitat, AND the needs to think straight, to signal for help, to navigate safely, to avoid unpleasant interactions with animals and plants, and for first aid.

en.wikipedia.org...



[edit on 29-12-2008 by whiteraven]



posted on Dec, 29 2008 @ 07:42 PM
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reply to post by whiteraven
 


I have to say yes to that. I think we're all robots in one way or another. Slaves to the monetary system depending on our status or level of standing.

There are definately more important things to our lives I believe.

)



posted on Dec, 29 2008 @ 07:46 PM
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Originally posted by morg9000
reply to post by whiteraven
 


I have to say yes to that. I think we're all robots in one way or another. Slaves to the monetary system depending on our status or level of standing.

There are definately more important things to our lives I believe.

)


How Demeaning!!!!lol

Me....a robot.....I deny it!



posted on Dec, 29 2008 @ 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by whiteraven
Me....a robot.....I deny it!


That attitude, and the closely related "Screw this! I'm looking for something better" are both very commendable transcendental behaviors of the human mind.
They're like Douglas Hofstadter's analogy of the human mind being able to constantly jump up to a "higher" perspective to judge his or her behaviors and potentially modify them.

We only know to "fix" something and grow if we realize it could use improvement. But if we are totally comfortable with everything in our lives, we'll happily live like robots without thinking of it as such.

That's why I think it's good for people that increasingly hard times are coming. Some mental programs are going to be put to real test, and we're going to be made to move in ways we haven't had to move before.

I find people who like expanding their minds and views are also much more unpredictable. So I guess the more you know, the less robotic you are, but there must always be some kind of automation in there so long as we are human I suppose.



posted on Dec, 29 2008 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by whiteraven
Me....a robot.....I deny it!


but there must always be some kind of automation in there so long as we are human I suppose.
Automation.



Of course i ment to say that in jest.


Automation.

Auto...machine

automatic machine

machine


Auto


Who am I....Am I a Ford....Am I a Chevy....Am I a BMW....Am I a astounding sound system...am I a repeater of that which I have been taught.


edit


or...I am a punk roker...i am a country and western guyégal...or i am a fill in the blank...we are taught via some intrument...books....friends....tv...movies...mags.....comics...vid games...parents....siblings....grandparents.....

or I AM gay...i am not...i am muslim...I am Christian....

it is all repeating what we have been taught......


[edit on 29-12-2008 by whiteraven]


edit again

taught = imprint

[edit on 29-12-2008 by whiteraven]



posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 03:16 AM
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I am my software. My program has always been the same. Built with a simple specified purpose for applications within the context of a specified environment.

Take message, read message, deliver message, return message. The company was disbanded and rebuilt around a singular 'model' that could do it all, alone. All employees and functions were fired/reassigned/demerited. I did not recieve my orders.
I am still my software.
Take message, read message, deliver message, return message.

Hardware irrelevant.

[edit on 30-12-2008 by HugmyRek]



posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 03:24 AM
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I don't much care for the hardware v software thought line, wouldn't we be the electricity in that analogy?



posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 11:03 AM
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Define Robot.




While there is no single correct definition of "robot",[3] a typical robot will have several or possibly all of the following properties.

It is artificially created.
It can sense its environment, and manipulate or interact with things in it.
It has some ability to make choices based on the environment, often using automatic control or a preprogrammed sequence.
It is programmable.
It moves with one or more axes of rotation or translation.
It makes dexterous coordinated movements.
It moves without direct human intervention.
It appears to have intent or agency.
The last property, the appearance of agency, is important when people are considering whether to call a machine a robot, or just a machine. (See anthropomorphism for examples of ascribing intent to inanimate objects.)





The first reference in Western literature to mechanical servants appears in Homer's Iliad. In Book XVIII, Hephaestus, god of fire, creates new armor for the hero Achilles, assisted by robots.[64] According to the Rieu translation, "Golden maidservants hastened to help their master. They looked like real women and could not only speak and use their limbs but were endowed with intelligence and trained in handwork by the immortal gods." Of course, the words "robot" or "android" are not used to describe them, but they are nevertheless mechanical devices human in appearance.

The most prolific author of stories about robots was Isaac Asimov (1920–1992), who placed robots and their interaction with society at the center of many of his works.[65][66] Asimov carefully considered the problem of the ideal set of instructions robots might be given in order to lower the risk to humans, and arrived at his Three Laws of Robotics: a robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm; a robot must obey orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law; and a robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.[67] These were introduced in his 1942 short story "Runaround", although foreshadowed in a few earlier stories. Later, Asimov added the Zeroth Law: "A robot may not harm humanity, or, by inaction, allow humanity to come to harm"; the rest of the laws are modified sequentially to acknowledge this.


en.wikipedia.org...

The idea of a robot is old. The frist mention by Homer in the Illiad shows that we are not the first to look at humanoid robots through the minds eye.

If a robot via hardware..sofware begins to make moral judgement and becomes aware of itself...is able to repair...heal...itself via software..hardware does that make it human......if it is able to show love in response to the fact that it was taught how to love does that make it human....

If not what is the difference.....

[edit on 30-12-2008 by whiteraven]



posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 12:38 PM
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My harf-baked theory

Your body is the machine itself, full of sensors (bit like a modern car in a way, takes in fuel - uses fuel to operate - excretes waste emissions, ha,ha)

the brain the harddrive,

the pineal gland the modem.

Dreams - Universal Web and place to download/upload.

Reality as we know it the software



posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 03:19 PM
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From Robert Anton Wilson's
Cosmic Trigger: Final Secret of the Illuminati





deoxy.org...



I. THE BIO-SURVIVAL CIRCUIT
This invertebrate brain was the first to evolve (2 to 3 billion years ago) and is the first activated when a human infant is born. It programs perception onto an either-or grid divided into nurturing-helpful Things (which it approaches) and noxious-dangerous Things (which it flees, or attacks). The imprinting of this circuit sets up the basic attitude of trust or suspicion which will ever after trigger approach or avoidance.



II. THE EMOTIONAL CIRCUIT
This second, more advanced bio-computer formed when vertebrates appeared and began to compete for territory (perhaps 500,000,000 B.C.). In the individual, this bigger tunnel-reality is activated when the DNA master-tape triggers the metamorphosis from crawling to walking. As every parent knows, the toddler is no longer a passive (bio-survival) infant but a mammalian politician, full of physical (and psychic) territorial demands, quick to meddle in family business and decision-making. Again the first imprint on this circuit remains constant for life (unless brainwashed) and identifies the stimuli which will automatically trigger dominant, aggressive behavior or submissive, cooperative behavior. When we say that a person is behaving emotionally, egotistically or 'like a two-year-old,' we mean that s/he is blindly following one of the tunnel-realities imprinted on this circuit.



/quote]

If you look at these ideas it would seem that if we live in these two circuits....with dominance by the second one then a ruler would be able to control the masses via the first two circuits.

These human traits have been understood and manipulated by governments for thousands of years.

911...activated the first circuit....by its very name and nature.


The second circuit was activated in mass after 911.

I am included in having these two basic human traits activated during and after 911.
.





III. THE DEXTERITY-SYMBOLISM CIRCUIT
This third brain was formed when hominid types began to differentiate from other primate stock (circa 4-5 million B.C.) and is activated for the linear left-lobe functions of the brain, determines our normal modes of artifact-manufacture and conceptual thought, i.e., third circuit 'mind.'
It is no accident, then, that our logic (and our computer-design) follows either-or, binary structure of these circuits. Nor is it an accident that our geometry, until the last century, has been Euclidean. Euclid's geometry, Aristotle's logic and Newton's physics are meta-programs synthesizing and generalizing first brain forward-back, second brain up-down and third brain right-left programs.




This circuit or human trait can be suspended or impeded during times of stress.
Soldiers/actors/musicians/journeymen techs etc are taught to override the first two in order to carry out the dextarity needed to accomplish tasks.

ie...Stage fright/ actor/musician know the part so well that they are able to perform even under great stress as the imprint of left/right/forward/back/up/down is now "second nature".




IV. THE SOCIAL-SEXUAL CIRCUIT
The fourth brain, dealing with the transmission of tribal or ethnic culture across generations, introduces the fourth dimension, time.
Since each of these tunnel-realities consists of biochemical imprints or matrices in the nervous system, each of them is specifically triggered by neuro-transmitters and other drugs.

NOTICE how drugs that stimulate the first four circuits, which are already activated, tend to be dangerously addictive, roughly ordered ascending from the first circuit. -deoxy



To activate the first brain take an opiate. Mother Opium and Sister Morphine bring you down to cellular intelligence, bio-survival passivity, the floating consciousness of the newborn. (This is why Freudians identify opiate addiction with the desire to return to infancy.)
To activate the second tunnel-reality, take an abundant quantity of alcohol. Vertebrate territorial patterns and mammalian emotional politics immediately appear when the booze flows, as Thomas Nashe intuitively realized when he characterized the various alcohol states by animal labels: "ass drunk," "goat drunk," "swine drunk," "bear drunk," etc.

To activate the third circuit, try coffee or tea, a high-protein diet, speed or coc aine.

The specific neurotransmitter for circuit four has not been synthesized yet, but it is generated by the glands after pubescence and flows volcanically through the bloodstreams of adolescents.

NONE OF THESE TERRESTRIAL DRUGS CHANGE BASIC BIOCHEMICAL IMPRINTS. The behaviors which they trigger are those which were wired into the nervous system during the first stages of imprint vulnerability. The circuit II drunk exhibits the emotional games or cons learned from parents in infancy. The circuit III "mind" never gets beyond the permutations and combinations of those tunnel-realities originally imprinted, or abstractions associated with the imprints through later conditioning. And so forth.

But all this Pavlovian-Skinnerian robotism changes drastically and dramatically when we turn to the right lobe, the future circuits and extraterrestrial chemicals.



Study the Skinner pigeons.

Skinner taught them to be superstitious.

Look at Pavlov.

His dogs began to salivate with the ringing of the dinner bell.


The people who control society are aware of the results of fear, auto response, superstition etc as they have trained armys for years in order to help them overcome and conquer those who do not understand the above.

The Catholic Church is very aware of these ideas. They lobby goverments to use these ideas to advance thier ideas on the populace.




V. THE NEUROSOMATIC CIRCUIT
When this fifth "body-brain" is activated, flat Euclidean figure-ground configurations explode multi-dimensionally. Gestalts shift, in McLuhan's terms, from linear VISUAL SPACE to all-encompassing SENSORY SPACE. A hedonic turn-on occurs, a rapturous amusement, a detachment from the previously compulsive mechanism of the first four circuits. I turned this circuit on with pot and Tantra.
This fifth brain began to appear about 4,000 years ago in the first leisure-class civilizations and has been increasing statistically in recent centuries (even before the Drug Revolution), a fact demonstrated by the hedonic art of India, China, Rome and other affluent societies. More recently, Ornstein and his school have demonstrated with electroencephalograms that this circuit represents the first jump from the linear left lobe of the brain to the analogical right lobe.

The opening and imprinting of this circuit has been the preoccupation of "technicians of the occult"—Tantric shamans and hatha yogis. While the fifth tunnel-reality can be achieved by sensory deprivation, social isolation, physiological stress or severe shock (ceremonial terror tactics, as practiced by such rascal-gurus as Don Juan Matus or Aleister Crowley), it has traditionally been reserved to the educated aristocracy of leisure societies who have solved the four terrestrial survival problems.

About 20,000 years ago, the specific fifth brain neurotransmitter was discovered by shamans in the Caspian Sea area of Asia and quickly spread to other wizards throughout Eurasia and Africa. It is, of course, cannabis. Weed. Mother Mary Jane.

It is no accident that the pot-head generally refers to his neural state as "high" or "spaced-out." The transcendence of gravitational, digital, linear, either-or, Aristotelian, Newtonian, Euclidean, planetary orientations (circuits I-IV) is, in evolutionary perspective, part of our neurological preparation for the inevitable migration off our home planet, now beginning. This is why so many pot-heads are STAR TREK freaks and science fiction adepts. (Berkeley, California, certainly the Cannabis Capital of the U.S., has a Federation Trading Post on Telegraph Avenue, where the well-heeled can easily spend $500 or more in a single day, buying STAR TREK novels, magazines, newsletters, bumper stickers, photographs, posters, tapes, etc., including even complete blueprints for the starship ENTERPRISE.)

The extraterrestrial meaning of being "high" is confirmed by astronauts themselves; 85% of those who have entered the free-fall zero gravity describe "mystic experiences" or rapture states typical of the neurosomatic circuit. "No photo can show how beautiful Earth looked," raves Captain Ed Mitchell, describing his Illumination in free-fall. He sounds like any successful yogi or pot-head. No camera can show this experience because it is inside the nervous system.

FREE-FALL, AT THE PROPER EVOLUTIONARY TIME, TRIGGERS THE NEUROSOMATIC MUTATION, Leary believes. Previously this mutation has been achieved "artificially" by yogic or shamanic training or by the fifth circuit stimulant, cannabis. Surfing, skiing, skin-diving and the new sexual culture (sensuous massage, vibrators, imported Tantric arts, etc.) have evolved at the same time as part of the hedonic conquest of gravity. The Turn-On state is always described as "floating," or, in the Zen metaphor, "one foot above the ground."




As you look at this human trait we soon see why governments try to control certain movements.

Look at China and Tibet.

Look at the 60's and Nixon...Johnson and the killing of JFK.

Look at non linier thought.

Look at the killing of John Lennon.

The goverment would lose control of the populace if this human trait gained acendacy in the populace.

Let us look at ancient rulers reaction to the 5th human trait.


Marijuana, from its stronghold in India, moved westward through Persia, Assyria and Arabia by 500 A.D. With the rising power of Islam, marijuana flourished flourished in a popular form as hashish. In 1378, the Emir Soudon Sheikhouni tried to end the use of Indian hashish by destroying all such plants, and imprisoning all users (first removing their teeth for good measure). Yet in a few years marijuana consumption had increased.[1]


[edit on 30-12-2008 by whiteraven]



posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 03:46 PM
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The activation of this circuit or human trait comes with Shaman Training (look at Buddhists, early pre Constantinople Christianity) tantric, pot, martial art training etc.

The issue we face as we venture into the 5th element is those who refuse to see it will want to "kill" it as it frightens them to the very core.

The Post Nicene Council saw this, then, out of fear burned all Gnostic books and hunted/tortured/killed Gnostic Christians in order to maintain control of the movement started by Jesus Christ.

The dangerous teaching of Christ have been watered down and rendered toothless when the Church/Bible/Religious leaders took over the movement.

First they tried to kill the early Christians.

Secondly they tried to bring them into the government fold...which they did and then systematically rendered early Christianity harmless; which early Christianity, by its very nature activated the 5th circuit via the Holy Spirit (read book of acts) scaring Romans into disarming it via inclusion after they discovered that they could not kill it.

I am not trying to convert anyone to Christianity. Lol

What I am trying to do is make some aware of this 5th circuit, this most wonderful of human traits.




posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 05:01 PM
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Hardware...no

Software...no

I am the programmer and technician.

I programme the software installed on my hardware which I maintain as the technician.

I was given this system by my mother.

She is the creator.



posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 05:21 PM
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Not lastly...lol....it is good for us to look at the parameters given to us that control our actions, thoughts and behavior.






Human beings (domesticated primates) are symbol-using creatures;
which means, as the pioneer semanticist, Korzybski, noted,
that those who rule symbols, rule us.
If Moses, Confucius, Buddha, Mohammed, Jesus and St. Paul
can be considered living influences—and they are: look around
the world—this is only because their Signal has been carried to
us by human symbol systems. These systems include words, artworks,
music, rituals and unrecognized rituals ("games") through
which culture is transmitted. Marx and Hitler, Newton and
Socrates, Shakespeare and Jefferson, etc. continue to "rule" parts
of humanity in the same way—through the semantic circuit.
We are ruled even more, and even less consciously, by the
inventors of the wheel, the plow, the alphabet, even the Roman
roads.



Remember that most of the world could not read in the 1970's. Even now the literate rate of most of the world is about that of a second grade student.

Even in North America most people read very, very little as the life they live requires a lot of work to maintain.

They give very little time to study and read as most are involved in the first two circuits....bio survival and social standing.

Bio survival and social standing is fed to us daily on the news, via movies, hollywood etc.

Most lawsuits revolve around bio survival.

Most divorces pivot on bio survival.

Get an education so your bio survival will be assured.

Attack Iraq in order to be sure we as North American's bio survive.

Who ever is not for us is against us Bush speak is bio survival.

The hit show survival speaks volumes.....it is all about the first two circuits with a little of the third...journeyman circuit .

Think About this.

IV. THE SOCIAL-SEXUAL CIRCUIT is I look at as the "history" circuit.

NOTICE:IV. THE SOCIAL-SEXUAL CIRCUIT
The fourth brain, dealing with the transmission of tribal or ethnic culture across generations, introduces the fourth dimension, time.
Since each of these tunnel-realities consists of biochemical imprints or matrices in the nervous system, each of them is specifically triggered by neuro-transmitters and other drugs.

NOTICE how drugs that stimulate the first four circuits, which are already activated, tend to be dangerously addictive, roughly ordered ascending from the first circuit. -deoxy


The history circuit is given to us via the writings and teaching of our forefathers.

A tribe or group brings this circuit to the forefront. The ideas given to us by our forefathers are important as we can then see the errors as well as the great ideas given to us by the collective.

The Church brought Christianity to this level while trying to kill the 5th element of human Consciousness.

The goverment does the same.

The enlightenment that the Founding Fathers of the United States of America saw brought ideas of the 5th circuit into play but over time as a centralized goverment increased in power it moved to suppress the enlightenment that our Founding fathers wanted to give to us via the Constitution.

It is the duty, in my opinion, of every American to study the enlightenment (notice the 5th circuit in the word enlightenment) in order to help one understand the ideas of freedom.

This does not mean smoke a lot of weed...lol...this means read a lot of books.

This means to stop trying to become rich and instead to push toward enlightenment and freedom.

lol

After all Jefferson was not a rich man. He was an enlightened man.



posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 05:30 PM
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I am the programmer and technician.


reply to post by nerbot
 


If you are then you are a very rare bird.

In order to be the tech and writer of your own personal software you would first need to overcome the inclinations of your early biological imprints.

If you truly have i applaud and need to learn from you....which I am very, very open to doing.

Peace.

WR



posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 06:39 PM
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Can anyone name the guy who activated all four circuits?

He motivated tribal/bio survival/social circuits/sexual.social circuits....missed the 5th which our Founding Fathers embraced.

Starts with H.....

I am going to take a break and visit some brothers.

Peace.



posted on Dec, 31 2008 @ 03:48 AM
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Originally posted by whiteraven



I am the programmer and technician.
reply to post by nerbot
 


If you are then you are a very rare bird.

In order to be the tech and writer of your own personal software you would first need to overcome the inclinations of your early biological imprints.

If you truly have i applaud and need to learn from you....which I am very, very open to doing.



The software is anything that comes into my world that I wish to use. I don't write it all, but I get to choose wether to install it or not.

As the technician, I get to choose what to use and how to use it.....those abilities depend on my faculties and capabilities which are my hardware.

Sleep is my "re-boot".....clears the memory for the new "log-on" each day.

I've never had a "critical error" but often need to "refresh" and do a "disk cleanup".

I run an old system but it does better than most of the latest operating systems.....I'm a little more tried and tested and understand the glitches.


Peace.....nerb



[edit on 31/12/2008 by nerbot]





 
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