Only the burger king one where it looks like there's a little arrow pointing at the burger. I don't really see why the other one's would be, or actually, they're too small for me to get a good look at so I can't make an accurate judgment.

I'm not very familiar with a mirrored red lobster sign or mirrored picture of a burger. And many people are not familiar with the bohemian grove pics. However I would say that there is some form of subconscious message in the unaltered logos intentionally or not. I see nothing of any significance here though. Am I missing something?

reply to post by RichardMonk

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Yes, Richard, what are we supposed to be seeing? I've attended the Cremation of Care ceremony, but they didn't serve Whoppers and it wasn't catered by Red Lobster. (I'm almost sure we had steak, if memory serves.)

Presupposing you're suggesting that those two fast food / casual dining brands are in some way a "tool" of a cabal somehow run by the Bohemian Club, I just looked at several relationship-mapping sites (such as www.muckety.com) trying to see if there were obvious CEO-level links between Darden (the parent company of Red Lobster) or Burger King Holding Company (the parent company of Burger King).

Not surprisingly, there weren't any obvious ties.

I bet the brand keepers at those two companies -- usually gifted MBA-types from places like Wharton and Kellogg and graphic artists from places like Art Center and Parsons -- would be dismayed to think that you're suggesting their brand logos are subliminally telling people to go worship owls in forests or something similar ...

But sure, I'll bite. What does the BC's owl shrine at the Russian River have to do with cheap hamburgers and mediocre seafood?

(Because I'll still opt for steak, thank you.)

Cheers,
Sandalfon

Any image that is like the symmetrical BK image/lobster one can be used as part of NRP. So I guess this could be slightly sunbliminal... I don't know what you're getting at really. Sorry.

I'm always up for a game of "where's waldo" - and by that I mean I believe that companies do use subliminal suggestion and/or propaganda in their imagery.

That being said, I think it's a stretch to suggest that something is hidden in the image that can affect the viewer, but must be mirrored to see consciously. I just don't think the mind works that way.

And the 'Cremation of Care' image might be familiar to folks here, but not to people in general. I examined your second image and really don't see what effect stretching it and mirroring the right side is supposed to have.

So, as stated by other posters, am I missing something? I'm guessing that you wanted to hear what we had to say before making any "suggestions" yourself, but there's not much to go on here. Perhaps you could elaborate now?

Actually the images were examples using mirrored reflections. The BurgerKing ad ran around 2001 in the US and you see the result of it after mirroring. The same with the Red Lobster Logo, when it is mirrored it creates a devil. The Bohemian Grove pic is unusual in that the photo most see is of a half flame located on the left side (compared to the mirrored image where the flame is on both sides). Look closely and you will notice that each design after mirroring creates a new image. Your comments are appreciative. Remember the question was are these images some type of subliminal or propaganda. Maybe we can go a step further. Do you think that these images were possibly created unintentionally. I will post what was found after mirroring a 600 year old mural in a church in Italy to give a better example.



As for a connection to the Grove and all that conjecture. The question was simple and reiterated above.

Richard Monk


[edit on 28-12-2008 by RichardMonk]

These images only have meaning because you make them have meaning by manipulating the images. Nothing more. I find it funny how people can see evil in anything by manipulating it, then claiming there is some message hidden there. People eat burgers because they are good, not because the commercials and logos have control over their minds.

It comes to mind that this is a comparison of unlike things -- a photo of a live event (the BC's allegorical play called "The Cremation of Care" in which the components, actors, and position of the fire changes by the minute) and a static piece of artwork. For instance, if those photos were taken five minutes earlier or later -- the position of the visual elements -- fire, actors, props -- might have been in a different position. Likewise -- the scene would have looked different if photographed from either side of the lake or square on -- which is nearly impossible -- unless photographed from the middle of a lake which is front of the performance stage.

Like the old "Do you see a cup or two people kissing?" optical illusions, it's possible that the mirroring "creates" an image that the artist never intended. Or perhaps he or she could have intended as a way of layering a message into his or her art. Recent interest in DaVinci's drawings around this idea is an example.

Oxford don C.S. Lewis, an Anglican and beloved Christian apologist, said that the error on the demonic was to see it under every rock or to ignore it altogether. Finding what might look vaguely like a stereotypical Western European "demon" face in mirror image of a hamburger ad or a restaurant logo might qualify in the "under every rock" category.

Interesting concept, though. I'm going to start watching my graphic artist friends with a little more apprehension, just in case they're up to no good.

Cheers,
Sandalfon

My response would be no..... I don't think there is a subliminal message or propoganda there. And therefore, there is nothing that is done unintentionally since there is nothing there to begin with. (huh, what did I just say LOL)

You have to work too hard to get where you are going. I don't see it without creating it in my mind first which is completely the opposite of what you are suggesting it is, isnt it?

It felt like I was answering a trick question.

That the human mind looks for familiar shapes and patterns is fundamental; it's how the entire process of 'thought' works. A sharp, well developed mind is one that can 'identify' the 'real' image and discard the 'accidental' one.

It is my opinion that mirroring an image increases the chances of it resembling something recognizable by 100% ...More than that actually, as it creates symmetry, which is an element found in nature and in man-made designs, and adds to the 'illusion'.

NOW, if I sound like a skeptic, I don't mean to. But I don't think the brain 'mirrors' things on its own as part of the pattern recognition process. These images need to be mirrored to produce the results you're looking for.

That is not to say that the technique hasn't been experimented with by artists and heads of industry in the past, just that perhaps these aren't the best examples.

[edit - articulation]

[edit on 12/28/2008 by Teratoma]

1. A devil lobster with breasts and creepy - Subliminal
2. Uncomfortably non centered -
3.The head and torso of a man inside the little arrow looking thing/ with a lit candle above his head - subliminal
4. Evil Owl Devil - where the NWO boys go.

All right - here come the men in the white coats... Gotta run.

wow, this is just like those people who see jesus on a spoon or on toast. You are looking too hard. It is just you trying to find something whether there is something actually there or not.

While I might share your opinion about these particular examples, I must respectfully disagree with the association you're making. Sandalfon made an excellent point with his C.S. Lewis reference.

It is a known fact that advertisers use subliminal imagery to suggest to people that they'd be somehow happier or get more sex if they use 'brand A'.

One must simply keep an open mind, AS WELL AS a firm toe-hold on occham's razor when considering these ideas. You can't deny that these techniques are being used, but at the same time, finding 'waldo' everywhere is only evidence of paranoia.

So it doesn't hurt to look, and try objectively to see what the OP is talking about. It helps to train the eye. This is one of my interests, and with my experience it is my OPINION that these particular images are innocuous. Someone else might see something I don't, but until I receive confirmation from the designer himself, or further evidence from the OP either way, I'll refrain from comment on how paranoid he may or may not be.

Thanks for all your thoughtful responses. In these image examples you see a medium of expression in art, whether this is consciously motivated or unintended is under debate. There is significance here regardless of how some will want to portray this. The Guru in the BK ad could easily have been air brushed or inserted post production same with the Cremation of Care Photo (purportedly leaked from the Grove). The Red Lobster Logo looks as if it was intentionally designed. Artists (painters) sometimes use mirrors to clean up their work and to get the symetry right. In the case of the hundreds of years old paintings such as exampled these must have been drawn with the mirrored image in mind. I am very open to the possibility that under trance state a person can do things which seem beyond their normal ability, so in some cases these secondary images may show up as a result of higher trance states. Take the Jack in the Box logo. Cut it in half directly and mirror any side and you might be amazed. Someone once said that the capstone on top of images of pyramids in the US are not sealed because the work (of the NWO) has not been completed. Interesting enough when you reverse image the Bohemian Club Logo you get a pyramid with the capstone well....you check it out and share your opinion.




[edit on 28-12-2008 by RichardMonk]

Three interesting related books for further reading:

An early (1974) breakthrough on the subliminal subject:

Subliminal Seduction by W.B. Key

A later work which addresses additional ideas in advertising:

Hidden Persuaders by Vance Packard

Less about subliminals, but a gospel book in product-marketing canon, and in my opinion, far more interesting:

Positioning: The Battle for Your Mind by Ries and Trout

All are available through a Seattle-based online bookseller that takes its name from the famed river and/or a mythical race of powerful women warriors ...

Cheers.

I think I read Subliminal Seduction back in high school about 20 years ago. I should check it out again.

...I'm pretty sure I can see Woodsy the Owl in that Jack In The Box logo. I wouldn't put it past the Illuminati to be that ironic & iconic at the same time. I'm looking at all of this with slightly narrower eyes.

Here is something I pulled off BK's website a while back. Haven't tried mirroring it, but I think it's a bit sinister-looking as is.



[edit - tags]


[edit on 12/28/2008 by Teratoma]

I'll try to render it and post. I can't guarantee that I'll find anything.

[edit on 28-12-2008 by RichardMonk]

I rendered the BK image and found only subtle possibilities. Either we haven't found the right 'code' as I like to call it (to unlock the magical image) or the images are so subtle that interpretation would be across the board. We have found by trial and error (mostly error) that the image effect won't be as difficult to find as locating the 'comb' in a Highlights Hidden Pictures page. That is not to say that if we really tried we couldn't again, 'unlock' a secondary image. This just means that if it takes too long to find it or it takes too long to understanding it then it probably has no alternative meaning. And there are plenty of examples of art in the mainstream which indicate a failed attempt at recreating using this medium. This is by far, not the Holy Grail yet it is an important discovery and will add to peoples perception and hopefully open a few eyes in the process.